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Forums - Sales - Nintendo 3DS sales more then PS3 and more then 360, in N.America.

Train wreck said:
Nem said:
Yakuzaice said:
Nem said:

Did the PSP happen to be a launch week in one of the regions or perhaps a price cut? What i know is that the 3DS is outselling the DS. The rest is history. You can conclude from that that Sony lost its market, but not Nintendo.

 

I still think its dumb. No one in their right mind plays a proper game on their phones. The controls are atrocious, the concept is dumb.

It had some game releases that month, but no price cut to my knowledge.

You can't really look at their market without also acknowledging the GBA which was a big reason for the slow start of the DS.  The GBA shipped 13.03 million units to the Americas from the quarter the DS launched to the end of its life.  In comparison the DS has only shipped 5.4 million since the 3DS launch.  The GBA in January 2007 actually outperformed the 3DS in January 2013 (and Jan 2012 for that matter).

So that would mean we are looking at the Nintendo Market going from 18 million to 15.37 million in the first eight quarters of a new handhelds life in the Americas.  This will look even worse in about a week considering the fact that the DS and GBA did 4.26 million in the ninth quarter, while shipments for the DS and 3DS are likely to be around a million in the Americas.  That would bring it to 22.26 million versus 16.37 million after nine quarters.  Even ignoring all that, how can you look at 316k Nintendo handheld sales in March 2013 compared to 652k in March 2007 and say there hasn't been a significant contraction in the market both Nintendo and overall?  Just two years ago in March 2011 total handheld sales were 1046k, and the DS alone was 29% higher than the 3DS, DS, Vita, and PSP combined this past month.

This is a problem I've seen when discussing the 3DS.  People just say "the 3DS is outselling the DS" without looking at the current sales for the 3DS and the historical sales trend of the DS.  There was a very obvious DS sales cliff looming, and the 3DS sales weren't rising to meet it.  Now it has already collided with the base of that cliff worldwide (as well as Japan and Europe individually), and it has literally just days before hitting it in the US.

The 3DS has already fallen behind the DS in Japan by a significant margin (a little over 3.4 million), and losing significant ground weekly after 112 weeks.  After 107 weeks in Europe it has fallen behind by 3.08 million and the gap is widening by 60-100k a week.  In the US, the 3DS still holds on to a very slight lead, but to say it is outselling the DS is disingenuous.  In week 107 the 3DS sold 46k.  In week 107 the DS sold 319k.  Today is the end of week 108, where the DS did another 369k.  Next saturday will mark week 109 for the 3DS.  In that week the DS did 462k, and that is when the 3DS will have fallen behind the DS in the three major regions.


You also forget that the economic landscape of today isnt the same as it was 6 years ago. The facts still show the market is there. The facts dont show people will completely forget their 3DS' and stick to phones. Why? Because the quality of the games and the playability is significantly inferior. The barrier of adoption is simply higher this time around, but the market is still there.

Nintendo achieved its highest sales curve, highest profits, margins, whatever scale you want to use during the years where the world experienced a global economic downturn from late 2007, into 2008, into 2009, into 2010 (before Nintendo own downturn started to occur as the Wii fad began to come to a close) if anything, the economic situation today has beyond stabilized in that most global markets and economies have returned to so level of their pre downturn years.

Wasnt the PSP and DS at lower price points aswell by then , comparing to what a 3DS and Vita cost today?

I see a general problem here with your post and others. Its the general thinking that US = The World.

The financial crisis in europe started 2 years ago. There was nothing worse going on before that. So i dont know what this 2007-2010 period is, but i can tell you that a crisis in the US is nothing like a crisis on other countries. Your buying power is alot higher. I am talking about the debt crisis wich are leading to several austerity measures. This is happening in europe and in Japan. I dont know about the US, but i assumed it was aswell since you owe rivers of money to China.



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Yakuzaice said:
Nem said:

You also forget that the economic landscape of today isnt the same as it was 6 years ago. The facts still show the market is there. The facts dont show people will completely forget their 3DS' and stick to phones. Why? Because the quality of the games and the playability is significantly inferior. The barrier of adoption is simply higher this time around, but the market is still there.

The handheld market was much larger even in the height of the recession than it is today.

Handheld market in US in March

2007: 832k
2008: 995k
2009: 731k
2010: 820.7k
2011: 1008.7k
2012: 581k
2013: 357k

The facts show the market has decreased significantly.  In the first 3 months of 2007, the DS outsold the 3DS, DS, Vita, and PSP combined in the first 3 months of 2012.  By 29%!  The GBA and PSP combined also sold more than the entire market this year.  I wasn't even making an argument about smartphones, but regardless the facts show that smartphone sales are booming while dedicated handhelds are crumbling.

The problem with the games argument is that the 3DS has an even lower attach rate than the DS.  After 8 quarters the 3DS has 85 million software shipped with an attach rate of 2.85.  After 8 quarters the DS had shipped 104 million software with an attach rate of 3.86.  In the ninth quarter the DS will ship 50.64 million units of software and the attach rate will rise to 4.33.  By the 11th quarter, it is likely that DS software shipments will double those of the 3DS.


March 2011 is when the 3DS was launch.

Can I see March 2005?

Plus I wouldn't count March 2014 out with a even greater 3D Library in both 3DS games for handhelds and 3D Movies for entertainment via Hulu Plus & eShop by then.



Kaizar said:

March 2011 is when the 3DS was launch.

Can I see March 2005?

Plus I wouldn't count March 2014 out with a even greater 3D Library in both 3DS games for handhelds and 3D Movies for entertainment via Hulu Plus & eShop by then.

Yes, I know it launched that month.  It doesn't detract from any points I'm making though.

I don't have the full numbers for March 2005, but the PSP did 620k.  The GBA and DS shipped 1.39 million to the Americas in the Jan-Mar 2005 quarter, but I can't say for certain what their sell through was in the US for the month of March.

Even if the 3DS doubled next March, the handheld market would still be down sharply from its peak.  3D becoming a major selling point three years after launch, and more than four years after Avatar just doesn't seem likely.  The Vita would need to rise from its grave to reach the numbers the handheld market was doing before 2012.



The question now is, how much money is Nintendo making off of it? That price cut was a major spike downwards, yet the system then sold insanely well.



I <3 Classic Platformers!

Multi-console Owner FTW

The 3DS is a freakin' monster! I can't remember the last time that it didn't hold the top hardware position! And the games just keep coming! Animal Crossing, (Hopefully Dragon Quest VII), Mario & Luigi: Dream Team, Yoshi's Island, A Link to the Past II, and of course Pokemon X and Y. I don't see the 3DS tapering off any time soon. I see this as the beginning for 3DS. It has so much potential. I hope there will be a Super Mario 3D Land 2.



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Yakuzaice said:
Kaizar said:

March 2011 is when the 3DS was launch.

Can I see March 2005?

Plus I wouldn't count March 2014 out with a even greater 3D Library in both 3DS games for handhelds and 3D Movies for entertainment via Hulu Plus & eShop by then.

Yes, I know it launched that month.  It doesn't detract from any points I'm making though.

I don't have the full numbers for March 2005, but the PSP did 620k.  The GBA and DS shipped 1.39 million to the Americas in the Jan-Mar 2005 quarter, but I can't say for certain what their sell through was in the US for the month of March.

Even if the 3DS doubled next March, the handheld market would still be down sharply from its peak.  3D becoming a major selling point three years after launch, and more than four years after Avatar just doesn't seem likely.  The Vita would need to rise from its grave to reach the numbers the handheld market was doing before 2012.

but the PSP use to sale a lot, and the PS Vita is not selling almost at all. You got to remember that the Sony join Nintendo during the DS. The 3DS is still selling more better in life time sales by 24 months then any other Handheld, while the PS Vita is selling worse then any other Handheld, which is drastically effecting the Handheld Sales.

So 3D is selling more better, while 2D is selling more worse.

And here's the 3D Movies:

2011 = 42 3D Movie premieres in Theaters

2012 = 45 3D Movie premieres in Theaters

2013 = 60 to 65 3D Movie premieres in Theaters (still working the exact numbers depending on if any of the 64 to 65 3D Movies for later this year gets push back to 2014, but like 8 of them have already premiere during the weak part of the Year for Movies: Q1)

And the 1st Year sales of 3D TVs are much greater then the first year sales of HD TVs. And same goes for the 2nd year sales comparison & 3rd year sales comparisons & etc.

If anything 2D seems to be on the decline in sales & popularity, while 3D is clearly on the incline.



Kaizar said:

but the PSP use to sale a lot, and the PS Vita is not selling almost at all. You got to remember that the Sony join Nintendo during the DS. The 3DS is still selling more better in life time sales by 24 months then any other Handheld, while the PS Vita is selling worse then any other Handheld, which is drastically effecting the Handheld Sales.

So 3D is selling more better, while 2D is selling more worse.

And here's the 3D Movies:

2011 = 42 3D Movie premieres in Theaters

2012 = 45 3D Movie premieres in Theaters

2013 = 60 to 65 3D Movie premieres in Theaters (still working the exact numbers depending on if any of the 64 to 65 3D Movies for later this year gets push back to 2014, but like 8 of them have already premiere during the weak part of the Year for Movies: Q1)

And the 1st Year sales of 3D TVs are much greater then the first year sales of HD TVs. And same goes for the 2nd year sales comparison & 3rd year sales comparisons & etc.

If anything 2D seems to be on the decline in sales & popularity, while 3D is clearly on the incline.

That was my point.  Even if the 3DS had a sales explosion, the handheld market would still be down without the Vita turning itself around.  But that is all just specualation about future sales.  The facts we have before us is that in March 2013 the entire handheld market is less than what the DS alone did from 2007-2011 in March

The 3DS has not sold more after 24 months than any other handheld.  I don't know why you keep throwing out blatantly false information.  Whether we are talking about US sales or Worldwide sales, it's not true.

The number of 3D movies released doesn't really indicate whether or not there is a bubbling demand for 3D content.  The studios have put a lot of effort into pushing 3D movies to increase average ticket prices, and they aren't going to give up at the drop of a hat.  It's not like this is the first time 3D movies have come around anyway.

In 2011 there were 601 movies tracked in the US box office.
In 2012 there were 659.

I can't seem to find hard data on annual sales of HDTV's and 3DTV's, so I'll go ahead and take your claims at face value.  Even so, it is hardly the same situation.  11 years ago, the average selling price of an HDTV was $8900.  Meanwhile you can get 3DTV's for as low as $500.  In general, 3D just seems to be treated as another feature on higher end TV's rather than a unique selling point.  Even for the people with 3DTV's, I wonder what percentage of the content they watch is 3D.  I'd imagine it is quite low.

If 3D was setting the world on fire, why haven't there been more 3D phones?  It looks like there was a moderate push by a few companies in 2011, but it is down to just LG now, and their latest 3D smartphone was announced more than a year ago.  Why are people buying Samsung and Apple phones by the bucket load when those companies seem to show no interest in 3D?  Same with gaming, if people are clammoring for 3D, why have Sony and Microsoft's efforts petered out?  Why isn't it front and center on the Wii U?  Lastly, kind of coming full circle, why isn't the 3DS doing better?  If 3D is going to cause it to take off in March 2014, what was going on in the previous three years?



Nem said:

Wasnt the PSP and DS at lower price points aswell by then , comparing to what a 3DS and Vita cost today?

I see a general problem here with your post and others. Its the general thinking that US = The World.

The financial crisis in europe started 2 years ago. There was nothing worse going on before that. So i dont know what this 2007-2010 period is, but i can tell you that a crisis in the US is nothing like a crisis on other countries. Your buying power is alot higher. I am talking about the debt crisis wich are leading to several austerity measures. This is happening in europe and in Japan. I dont know about the US, but i assumed it was aswell since you owe rivers of money to China.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_crisis_of_2007%E2%80%932008

 

The financial crisis of 2007–2008, also known as the Global Financial Crisis and 2008 financial crisis, is considered by many economists to be the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s.[1] It resulted in the threat of total collapse of large financial institutions, the bailout of banks by national governments, and downturns in stock markets around the world. In many areas, the housing market also suffered, resulting in evictions, foreclosures and prolonged unemployment. The crisis played a significant role in the failure of key businesses, declines in consumer wealth estimated in trillions of US dollars, and a downturn in economic activity leading to the 2008–2012 global recession and contributing to the European sovereign-debt crisis.[2][3] The active phase of the crisis, which manifested as a liquidity crisis, can be dated from August 7, 2007, when BNP Paribas terminated withdrawals from three hedge funds citing "a complete evaporation of liquidity".[4]



According to the projected numbers on this site... it's matching PS3 sales. For a single week...

Smartphones and tablets meanwhile are outselling EVERYTHING.. 50:1? I'm sure it's close to that ratio lol.

Nintendo is doomed because their stock dropped 77%, it's cash value -- uninvestable due to the companies complete inability to compete in the hardware marketplace. Even IF nintendo makes a profit off wiiu, eventually, it will only be a small profit and really not enough to continue justifying an irrelevant market position. It's so painfully obvious that the CEO should be fired.

Nintendo is only staying in the hardware race because of the 16% minority shareholder who's family started the business, and apparently in japan they actually care what a minority shareholder thinks, as long as his family started the empire. So yeah, they'll continue losing money or making small profit on hardware. Either way, devs and consumers don't care.

The entire discussion is so irrelevant. It's a doomed company, anyone arguing this is just making themselves look like a novice.



MaxwellAllen said:
According to the projected numbers on this site... it's matching PS3 sales. For a single week...

Smartphones and tablets meanwhile are outselling EVERYTHING.. 50:1? I'm sure it's close to that ratio lol.

Nintendo is doomed because their stock dropped 77%, it's cash value -- uninvestable due to the companies complete inability to compete in the hardware marketplace. Even IF nintendo makes a profit off wiiu, eventually, it will only be a small profit and really not enough to continue justifying an irrelevant market position. It's so painfully obvious that the CEO should be fired.

Nintendo is only staying in the hardware race because of the 16% minority shareholder who's family started the business, and apparently in japan they actually care what a minority shareholder thinks, as long as his family started the empire. So yeah, they'll continue losing money or making small profit on hardware. Either way, devs and consumers don't care.

The entire discussion is so irrelevant. It's a doomed company, anyone arguing this is just making themselves look like a novice.

Companies that make a profit year after year are far from doomed.