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Forums - Sony - PlayStation 4 Developers Have Access to 7 GB RAM (Rumor)

ethomaz on 12 April 2013
Solid-Stark said:

7GB is alot for game development. It ensures future proofing in regard to RAM.

I would have guessed 6GB were for developers and 2GB would be aside for the OS.

Also, I hope they have enough aside for the OS, that way they can actually release new versions of the OS (or overhauls) eventually if the OS gets too stale and is unable to improve through simple updating.

Sony is putting all the backgound tasks and others features out of the Main System (CPU, GPU and GDDR5)... so the OS will be use low resourses... 1GB seems to have a secure margin for work with the OS in the future.



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walsufnir on 12 April 2013
ethomaz said:

I will make the things more clear to you.

The biggest problem with PS3 is the BD is slower than HDD... so the load is better when you sent the data from HDD to RAM... PS4 didn't have this problem... the DB player is fast than any mechanical HDD... so the devs will never use the HDD to cache the data before sent to RAM.

Ok, ethomaz, till now I resisted but now I have to answer. When you are in defense-mode, some posts of you just get weird...

" PS4 didn't have this problem... the DB player is fast than any mechanical HDD... so the devs will never use the HDD to cache the data before sent to RAM."

No. Access time of an hdd is about 10ms, access time bd-player definitely over 100ms, some even 180ms.

Transfer rate Bluray is 1x at 36Mbps.This is MBit - not Megabyte. So at 6x, we have 215 Mbit/s. This is even lower than USB 2.0 which has 480 MBit/s.  A common hdd easily reads at 130 MByte/s. This is 1040 Mbit/s.

But transfer speed is only one side of the medal because of access times (read: latency). The reason, for example, why ssds are "felt" stronger is not because of ther high transmit rate but because the access time is magnitudes better than hdds. This is why optical drives suck, and yes, this is also true for ps4-bdd.

Every word of your conclusion is therefore also wrong.



walsufnir on 12 April 2013
ethomaz said:
KingofTrolls said:
PS4 will get long load time or not ? I was sure no, but ..

From Sony words... little to no load time and instant play games (no boot if you power off the PS4 with the disc in the tray).


Yes, that is if Gaikai is working which I doubt it will be from day 1. Also keep in mind that this will require a very good internet access (read: good bandwidth and more important, very good latency. Leave aside a very good infrastructure provided by Sony).



ethomaz on 12 April 2013

walsufnir said:

Ok, ethomaz, till now I resisted but now I have to answer. When you are in defense-mode, some posts of you just get weird...

" PS4 didn't have this problem... the DB player is fast than any mechanical HDD... so the devs will never use the HDD to cache the data before sent to RAM."

No. Access time of an hdd is about 10ms, access time bd-player definitely over 100ms, some even 180ms.

Transfer rate Bluray is 1x at 36Mbps.This is MBit - not Megabyte. So at 6x, we have 215 Mbit/s. This is even lower than USB 2.0 which has 480 MBit/s.  A common hdd easily reads at 130 MByte/s. This is 1040 Mbit/s.

But transfer speed is only one side of the medal because of access times (read: latency). The reason, for example, why ssds are "felt" stronger is not because of ther high transmit rate but because the access time is magnitudes better than hdds. This is why optical drives suck, and yes, this is also true for ps4-bdd.

Every word of your conclusion is therefore also wrong.

lol I make mistake with the BD speeds... so I'm wrong but about the HDD I'm right.

A common HDD is more like 50MB/s in sequencial read speeds (a 7200RPM one... the PS3 uses a 5400RPM).

If the PS3 had a 6x BD for read I can say to you the games will never use installation data (most don't use even with 2x BD).



ethomaz on 12 April 2013
walsufnir said:
ethomaz said:
KingofTrolls said:
PS4 will get long load time or not ? I was sure no, but ..

From Sony words... little to no load time and instant play games (no boot if you power off the PS4 with the disc in the tray).


Yes, that is if Gaikai is working which I doubt it will be from day 1. Also keep in mind that this will require a very good internet access (read: good bandwidth and more important, very good latency. Leave aside a very good infrastructure provided by Sony).

What the instant play feature (the OS caches the state of the game in memory because the standby never turn off the PS4 and just returns from the same state like a Standy By option in notebooks) have to do with Gaikai or Internet connection?

I think you confused the things here... all the feature I listed are for offline play... little or no load time and instant play.



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walsufnir on 12 April 2013
ethomaz said:

walsufnir said:

Ok, ethomaz, till now I resisted but now I have to answer. When you are in defense-mode, some posts of you just get weird...

" PS4 didn't have this problem... the DB player is fast than any mechanical HDD... so the devs will never use the HDD to cache the data before sent to RAM."

No. Access time of an hdd is about 10ms, access time bd-player definitely over 100ms, some even 180ms.

Transfer rate Bluray is 1x at 36Mbps.This is MBit - not Megabyte. So at 6x, we have 215 Mbit/s. This is even lower than USB 2.0 which has 480 MBit/s.  A common hdd easily reads at 130 MByte/s. This is 1040 Mbit/s.

But transfer speed is only one side of the medal because of access times (read: latency). The reason, for example, why ssds are "felt" stronger is not because of ther high transmit rate but because the access time is magnitudes better than hdds. This is why optical drives suck, and yes, this is also true for ps4-bdd.

Every word of your conclusion is therefore also wrong.

lol I make mistake with the BD speeds... so I'm wrong but about the HDD I'm right.

A common HDD is more like 50MB/s in sequencial read speeds (a 7200RPM one... the PS3 uses a 5400RPM).

If the PS3 had a 6x BD for read I can say to you the games will never use installation data (most don't use even with 2x BD).


Oh, don't do so, ethomaz... don't pick the bad numbers from hdds to compare them to the optimum of bd-drives, that's not arguing.

Just look at this and remember the most current one is from 2010:

Every hdd you buy nowadays *easily* outperforms a bdd, especially because of access times. They are even way better in write-rates.

As I said, when in defense mode you are simply overdoing it at times. No offense but this isn't necessary.



walsufnir on 12 April 2013
ethomaz said:
walsufnir said:
ethomaz said:
KingofTrolls said:
PS4 will get long load time or not ? I was sure no, but ..

From Sony words... little to no load time and instant play games (no boot if you power off the PS4 with the disc in the tray).


Yes, that is if Gaikai is working which I doubt it will be from day 1. Also keep in mind that this will require a very good internet access (read: good bandwidth and more important, very good latency. Leave aside a very good infrastructure provided by Sony).

What the instant play feature (the OS caches the state of the game in memory because the standby never turn off the PS4 and just returns from the same state like a Standy By option in notebooks) have to do with Gaikai or Internet connection?

I think you confused the things here... all the feature I listed are for offline play... little or no load time and instant play.


"During Sony’s PlayStation 4 presentation today, cloud-computing company Gaikai CEO David Perry revealed how the enhanced PlayStation Network will change the way you play games. The benefits include instantly playing demos of games without downloading anything, spectating any friends’ game, and remotely taking over control for them."

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/02/20/ps4-lets-players-try-games-instantly-control-friends-games-remotely.aspx



theprof00 on 12 April 2013
SxyxS said:
6gb should be enough /2gb for the system

more important is a smart loading management and streaming.
loading 7gb would need more than 5 minutes:
once fully loaded the advantage should be:no more loading times while entering buildings like in lego city

Likely 7GB will completely eliminate load times. With so much RAM available, 3GB can be used for the current area, and the rest dedicated to storing nearby area information...ie, loading while playing



walsufnir on 12 April 2013
theprof00 said:
SxyxS said:
6gb should be enough /2gb for the system

more important is a smart loading management and streaming.
loading 7gb would need more than 5 minutes:
once fully loaded the advantage should be:no more loading times while entering buildings like in lego city

Likely 7GB will completely eliminate load times. With so much RAM available, 3GB can be used for the current area, and the rest dedicated to storing nearby area information...ie, loading while playing

This would also mean that PS4 is very loud as the drive would constantly stream data to RAM and given that even 6x reading speed is quite slow I believe it makes more sense to "install" games to hdd.

We'll see what Sony will exactly do.



nightsurge on 12 April 2013

I just hope that is a big enough reservation for their OS. A smaller OS footprint is better, for sure, but if they decide they need their OS to do more functions or their PS button to open up more menus/do more with the share/record button, etc...

It is very easy to make your OS use less memory, but it is impossible to make it use more because older games would have been built with the larger available amount and would now be lacking in RAM.

Who knows, though, perhaps 1GB is plenty to make all their OS functions smooth and fast with plenty of room for growth. I just would have though they'd use 1.5-2GB and they could always lower it in the future if they needed to.