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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Are Consoles ruining the gaming industry?

prlatino86 on 29 January 2008
waron said:
prlatino86 said:
waron said:
fkusumot said:
waron said:
 

then what the heck was the whole nintendo kingdom of portable consoles earlier? it didn't give you console experience in portable machine? psp gave us only loco roco, potapon nad bunch of games that i could find on ps2. so for me psp is just a smaller ps2.


Exactly. The PSP is very comparable to a much smaller PS2. One that you can carry around with you. It's portable. It's a great portable multi-media machine. Really, it is. You can't deny it.


yes, but it didn't give something new to the market - which is still my point(well except being a multimedia thing). now consoles are only beter technically and nothing more plus they're starting to look like pc(you know ps3 can have linux and so on).


Yeah it did, it was marketed towards and older demographic, and played like a console. Like thats what i thought the Nintendo DS was going to be, when it first came out, a portable N64, cuz of Mario. So i got the DS and Mario when it first came out. Man, was i sadly mistaken, hahaha. The PSP give just another option in an optionless market.

just like every console(especially ps2, x360 and ps3) you know that, right? ds is not only a great n64 portable version it can much more - look at ASH gameplay videos. ds make a big step in the gaming industry - psp didn't.


Ok, how the hell are you going to compare the PSP with being the same as an X360 or PS3? when was the last time you saw some guy riding the bus playing his PS3?

PSP does bring something new to the market, because if there was no PSP, then the only option you would have now for a portable gaming device is a DS.

Edit: DS is a gimped version of the N64.  Play Mario on there and compare it to the 64 version, its not AS great looking.  If that is the cas, why didnt they come out with an Zelda: OoT port?  That was the main complaint about the system when it first came out, they said Nintendo should have made it comparable to the N64.



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celine on 29 January 2008
prlatino86 said:
celine said:
prlatino86 said:
 

Look up the Videogame Crash of 1983. that should make more sense of why these things are not necessarily a good thing.

Videogames Crash '83 causes :

- Flood of bad games even ( or especially ? ) from first party ( Atari ). For bad games I meant games that were clearly shallow even for casual users ( the hardcore users at that time were on computer gaming side only ). Atari didn't have the controlling power over what was released on its platform. ( A situation very different from nowadays Wii )

- Massive price war by computer company of that time ( especially by Commdore ) that hurt badly the sales of Atari 2600 and other console.

- Incapacity by Atari to offer after a couple of years new interest on its console system line of products.

So overall the great crash was caused by the mismanagement of Atari as a company that brought an unhealthy market for console gaming ( this is not the case with Wii/DS business model ).

After the crash the only company that believed in console gaming ( Nintendo ) kicked the ass of 16 bit computer using tecnology of '70. At that time hardcore gamers from computer gaming blamed the new wave brought by Nes and mocked Nes games as NON-GAMES. Funny, no ?

 


umm, i really dont see where i compared that to the Wii or Nintendo in general, so i have no idea why your trying to rebuttal me on a point i never made.


 Well Nintendo is a part of console gaming industry and currently IMHO has a great and healthy business model so I don't understand why you cited crash '83 ( caused by a bad business model like I said above ) to prove your point.

Like fkusumot pointed out, console gaming exited even stronger from that crash thanks to Nintendo. 



 “In the entertainment business, there are only heaven and hell, and nothing in between and as soon as our customers bore of our products, we will crash.”  Hiroshi Yamauchi

TAG:  Like a Yamauchi pimp slap delivered by Il Maelstrom; serving it up with style.

mrstickball on 29 January 2008

PC is dying in America, and other places for many reasons:

#1. Console/Portable gaming is more accessible and easier to understand. Rather than having a full QWERTY keyboard for a given game, you have a small number of buttons.

#2. There is no (or atleast a much decreased) arms race of PC specs. The same system I play Condemned on X360 on, will be the same system I play a new game from 2010 on. The same can't be said for a PC for $500.

#3. Vastly less technical issues exist with console games. Have Windows Vista? Too bad - you can't run half of the games out. Got a Mac or Linux? Same boat.


PC gaming is a quickly dying breed. Look at UT3 and Crysis sales. Look at Bethsada, a PC-only developer quickly jumping ship with Oblivion and Fallout to the X360 and PS3 - there are economical reasons for doing such.

Some PC games can be very profitable, but are kind of like the "Wii" games - with mediocre graphics, and a focus on profitability - World of Warcraft has crap for graphics and installs on CDs, yet is the highest revenue-generating game out there. Galactic Civilizations 2 turned a profit within a few days of release. But for every good story, you have alot of bad PC tragedies with too much Q&A issues on PCs, and too short deadlines - shovelware and unfinished games are nowhere near as bad on consoles - go try the 1.0 version of Two Worlds versus the 1.1 X360 version. Big difference.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

MikeB on 29 January 2008
prlatino86 said:
 

 

Umm, Blu Ray doesnt mean shit on a PC as pretty much no PC games stream off discs anymore. Everything is installed on the Hard Drive.

The problem with the Cell is no one really knows how to harness it for at least to its full potential. So yeah, current CPUs will do the job running a game just as well as the Cell can.

 


Of course it does, even if the 120-160 GB PS3 rumours are true 20GB-100GB games will never be fully installed on the harddrive, takes too much space and takes too much time to fully install.

With regard to the Cell many devs know how to harness the potential of the Cell, but Rome just wasn't built in a day. Legacy engines need to be adapted, requiring time and effort. If you have a single threaded game engine you will have to spend an enormous amount of time and effort adapting your engine to get the most out of the platform.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

prlatino86 on 29 January 2008
celine said:
prlatino86 said:
celine said:
prlatino86 said:
 

Look up the Videogame Crash of 1983. that should make more sense of why these things are not necessarily a good thing.

Videogames Crash '83 causes :

- Flood of bad games even ( or especially ? ) from first party ( Atari ). For bad games I meant games that were clearly shallow even for casual users ( the hardcore users at that time were on computer gaming side only ). Atari didn't have the controlling power over what was released on its platform. ( A situation very different from nowadays Wii )

- Massive price war by computer company of that time ( especially by Commdore ) that hurt badly the sales of Atari 2600 and other console.

- Incapacity by Atari to offer after a couple of years new interest on its console system line of products.

So overall the great crash was caused by the mismanagement of Atari as a company that brought an unhealthy market for console gaming ( this is not the case with Wii/DS business model ).

After the crash the only company that believed in console gaming ( Nintendo ) kicked the ass of 16 bit computer using tecnology of '70. At that time hardcore gamers from computer gaming blamed the new wave brought by Nes and mocked Nes games as NON-GAMES. Funny, no ?

 


umm, i really dont see where i compared that to the Wii or Nintendo in general, so i have no idea why your trying to rebuttal me on a point i never made.


Well Nintendo is a part of console gaming industry and currently IMHO has a great and healthy business model so I don't understand why you cited crash '83 ( caused by a bad business model like I said above ) to prove your point.

Like fkusumot pointed out, console gaming exited even stronger from that crash thanks to Nintendo.


 True, but just because Nintendo has a strong Business model now, doesnt mean they wont make mistakes.  Jesus, none of these companies are infallible, and as much as Nintendo brought it out of the crash, it wasnt that long ago that Nintendo was barely making it in the industry (Gamecube, anyone?)

Hell, they said just a couple of years ago Sony was doing great, and that it looked like they were destined to take the lead with their plan and business model.   Look where they are now.  

ANYWAYS, i cited the Crash only to make a point that over saturation can be a bad thing.  How the hell did i get off on this tangent, haha.    



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fkusumot on 29 January 2008
prlatino86 said:
fkusumot said:
 

I'm very familiar with the video game crash of 1983. How does that fit into your thesis? After that crash console gaming reinvented itself and came back stronger than ever. I don't see how the movie industry is in decline either unless you're talking about the artistic merits of the movies made in the 1940's compared to the movies made in the 1990's.


??? am i the only one that reads business news? I thought this was fairly well known knowledge around that the industries are on a decline. What is meant by on a decline is that these industries are no longer seeing much in the way of growth, and in the case of the Music industry, is actually losing sales or the amount of money they make each year. Ever wonder why movie tickets are so damn high and always keep going up? its not just cuz of inflation. DVD sales are also starting to slow in the past few years, hence the push for Blu Ray and High Def; its an attempt to start making growth in sales again.


 I don't care if they make less money, or in the case of movies, revenue growth is declining. They've been making less films for quite a long time. I believe the popular consensus is that movies got too expensive to make so fewer were made. Do you think that has been what's happening to the video game industry?



I Blame Wii Fit!

MikeB on 29 January 2008
prlatino86 said:
MikeB said:
@ prlatino86

PC for the price it costs to buy a PS3 80 gig right now, AND it be more capable, and have more uses.


Not more capable with regard to watching Blu-Ray movies and nor per se with regard to gaming.

Most people prefer to play games and watch movies on TV sets, for this the PS3 is far more suitable. You can easily connect many Sixaxis controllers for multi-player fun, you don't have to worry about viruses, trojans and all that stuff.

I have been a PC assembler in my student years as well, most consumers were and still are misinformed and uneducated with regard to PCs. The most common basic knowledge basically comes down to, more Mhz means faster (which doesn't per se need to be the case) and more memory is better (especially for using Windows and software).

PC's are mostly used for internet surfing, reading emails, writing documents and such. For this you don't need the latest and "greatest" OS, nor do you really need an impressive PC setup.

Besides watching a Blu Ray movie, and multiplayer in-house, what other capablities does it have over the PC, that the PC cant do better? You do realize more and more people are connecting their PCs to their TVs, sense many High Def TVs have HDMI or DVI imports on them now.


You'll have to understand the PS3 is an entertainment device, watching movies and playing games is the core focuss here. For this the PS3 is relatively hassle free, suits the living room / media cabinet well and can do an amazing job at these core features.

Many people I know rather use a more mobile laptop for the stuff they use a PC for, for watching movies or playing games inside your home it's not an interesting solution.



Naughty Dog: "At Naughty Dog, we're pretty sure we should be able to see leaps between games on the PS3 that are even bigger than they were on the PS2."

PS3 vs 360 sales

prlatino86 on 29 January 2008
MikeB said:
prlatino86 said:
 

 

Umm, Blu Ray doesnt mean shit on a PC as pretty much no PC games stream off discs anymore. Everything is installed on the Hard Drive.

The problem with the Cell is no one really knows how to harness it for at least to its full potential. So yeah, current CPUs will do the job running a game just as well as the Cell can.

 


Of course it does, even if the 120-160 GB PS3 rumours are true 20GB-100GB games will never be fully installed on the harddrive, takes too much space and takes too much time to fully install.

With regard to the Cell many devs know how to harness the potential of the Cell, but Rome just wasn't built in a day. Legacy engines need to be adapted, requiring time and effort. If you have a single threaded game engine you will have to spend an enormous amount of time and effort adapting your engine to get the most out of the platform.


 What? what are you talking about 120 Gig PS3 for? Of course they wouldnt do full installs because its a console.  PC are different.  The game can come HIGHLY compressed on a disc because it will be installed and streamed from the Harddrive.  Consoles cant really use as high of compression rates as it will slow down the game, and increase load times.  



Press_the_Button on 29 January 2008
Garcian Smith said:
No. In fact, consoles regularly save gaming from the stagnant and backwards-looking PC market, which, at the moment, is populated by mostly a bunch of nerdshoes who won't even touch a game if it requires a joypad or doesn't have at least 25 different hotkey controls.

Oh dear, you are so, so wrong with that.

Firstly, I've not yet seen a PC magazine slag off a game for needing a joypad and PC magazines are the most likely place to find “nerdshoes”.

Secondly, the PC gaming market pushes the market forward through constant innovation. In the period when the PS3 and Xbox360 start getting long in the tooth and developers can’t get more out of them and before the next generation of consoles gets launched, it’ll be PC game developers, using the PC’s multi-core processors, more memory, better graphics cards etc. to learn how to program better AI, develop better graphics etc. in readiness for use in the next gen of consoles games.

Thirdly, most of the current popular genres on the consoles originated on the PC – the PC was doing FPS long before Halo/Goldeneye etc made it popular on the consoles, so too was it the birthplace of to RTS's and MMO's - which will be popular on the Consoles before too long. Games such as Civilization, Spore, The Sims all started on the PC and were perfected on the PC and have/are increasingly migrating to the Consoles and becoming popular games there.



 



I am largely platform agnostic. I fail to understand why some people get overly fanboyish about what is an inanimate piece of electronics that's obsolete even before it's launched, when there are far more important things to champion, such as preventing environmental destruction or preventing millions of people dying unnecessarily from illnesses. This fact however, doesn’t mean I am not someone who doesn’t enjoy gaming as a pastime (as I have done for the last 20 years) or doesn’t have a strong interest in how the market is evolving – hence my presence on this site.

Platforms owned – PC, DS, X-Box 360, PS3, PSP and Wii.

waron on 29 January 2008
prlatino86 said:
waron said:
prlatino86 said:
waron said:
fkusumot said:
waron said:
 

then what the heck was the whole nintendo kingdom of portable consoles earlier? it didn't give you console experience in portable machine? psp gave us only loco roco, potapon nad bunch of games that i could find on ps2. so for me psp is just a smaller ps2.


Exactly. The PSP is very comparable to a much smaller PS2. One that you can carry around with you. It's portable. It's a great portable multi-media machine. Really, it is. You can't deny it.


yes, but it didn't give something new to the market - which is still my point(well except being a multimedia thing). now consoles are only beter technically and nothing more plus they're starting to look like pc(you know ps3 can have linux and so on).


Yeah it did, it was marketed towards and older demographic, and played like a console. Like thats what i thought the Nintendo DS was going to be, when it first came out, a portable N64, cuz of Mario. So i got the DS and Mario when it first came out. Man, was i sadly mistaken, hahaha. The PSP give just another option in an optionless market.

just like every console(especially ps2, x360 and ps3) you know that, right? ds is not only a great n64 portable version it can much more - look at ASH gameplay videos. ds make a big step in the gaming industry - psp didn't.


Ok, how the hell are you going to compare the PSP with being the same as an X360 or PS3? when was the last time you saw some guy riding the bus playing his PS3?

PSP does bring something new to the market, because if there was no PSP, then the only option you would have now for a portable gaming device is a DS.

Edit: DS is a gimped version of the N64. Play Mario on there and compare it to the 64 version, its not AS great looking. If that is the cas, why didnt they come out with an Zelda: OoT port? That was the main complaint about the system when it first came out, they said Nintendo should have made it comparable to the N64.


prlatino86, i was talking about that you can describe by this:

Yeah it did, it was marketed towards and older demographic, and played like a console.

every sonys console psx, ps2 and ps3(plus every microsoft console). every sonys console is hitting to 16-30 year old guys.psp gives you the same type of games(actually it gives you exactly the same games)as ps2. there are many consoles that didn't make into the market as good as psp or ds(gizmondo, gp32 and so on) but only those two were able to gain enough audience to be popular consoles.