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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 'isn't quite as powerful as Epic was hoping for,' Digital Foundry reports

Naum on 04 April 2013

Good then maybe less developers will go bankrupt... it's easy for Epic to say consoles aren't as powerful as they hoped, they aren't the ones taking the hit.



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

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Hynad on 04 April 2013
Kynes said:
Hynad said:
Kynes said:
theprof00 said:
Slimebeast said:
Hynad said:

When did Epic say that, exactly?

That article is misleading and missed something really important in Digital Foundry's analysis.

A nice update directly from Epic themselves:


Update: Brian Karis, senior graphics programmer at Epic Games adds some more insight in the comments below, explaining some of the more obvious differences - particularly in terms of the very different lighting schemes. At the technical level, the two demos are closer than it seems:

"The biggest changes actually came from the merging of two separate cinematics, the original Elemental and the extended Elemental we showed at PS4's launch event. Each had different sun directions and required some compromises to join them. This resulted in some major lighting differences that aren't platform related but were due to it being a joined cinematic. Another effect, in the original you could see the mountains through the door where in the merged one we made the view through the door white since the mountains outside were no longer the same. Same deal with the mountain fly by. The old mountain range doesn't exist in the new one. These changes from the merge make direct comparisons somewhat inaccurate.

"Feature wise most everything is the same, AA resolution, meshes, textures (PS4 has tons of memory), DOF (I assure you both use the same Bokeh DOF, not sure why that one shot has different focal range), motion blur.

"Biggest differences are SVOGI has been replaced with a more efficient GI solution, a slight scale down in the number of particles for some FX, and tessellation is broken on ps4 in the current build which the lava used for displacement. We will fix the tessellation in the future."

So yeah, this article is bullcrap, and fishing for clicks at the expense of integrity.

No it's not. It's a perfectly valid conclusion to draw when you realize what features are missing from the PS4 demo compared to the PC demo, and your quoted statement by Epic shows they were unable to deny that. Instead it confirms exactly those missing features that Epic, just like all gamers, had high hopes for:

* lack of SVO global illumination 

* and less particles on the PS4 version

See bolded


Non real time global illumination is always more efficient, but much less realistic. It's not a good thing having to use pre-baked illumination, it's used because it has much less performance penalty, not because it is better visually. That alone tells us that the performance difference is there, but anyone with hardware knowledge could have said it before any tech demo.

Yet GI can look just as good as SVOGI depending on what the content is and how it is implemented. SVOGI is neat, but not having it in games isn't a game breaker. Games will still look gorgeous. In fact, I don't think most people will notice any significant difference between the 2 methods.

And the judge is still out on whether or not that feature is possible on the PS4 down the line. When engines for the console get mature.

Only if SVOGI is badly implemented or the scene is really simple with a very low number of light sources. The advances in graphics aren't anymore about a higher resolution, or better textures, or more polygons... it's mainly improving the illumination of the scene, that's the main difference between cgi and realtime, and is where more performance is really useful. I'm not saying that PS4 is a weak console, I'm just saying that prebaked illumination is not what next gen console engines should aim for, and saying that it's not important is lying.

Lying? Are you saying I'm lying?

I'm saying it's not a deal breaker. GI's use during current gen has been sparse at best with its implementation not being all that great either (On console, not PC). The PS4 and NeXBox will allow much better, more mature results. And like I said, there's nothing telling us that SVOGI won't be possible on these consoles down the line.
UE3's performances improved quite a lot over the course of its lifespan. I see no reason to believe UE4 won't do the same. 

But again, not a deal breaker.



Cyborg13B on 04 April 2013

Oh come on that's just as good!  Considering the price of the GTX680: 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130768

 

$500.  And the price of the entire Playstation 4 alone is $400.  That's a pretty remarkable amount of detail.  A very minor loss of detail.  Plus consider that Epic Games didn't design it from the ground up for Playstation 4 - a radically different architecture from the PC.  Why not try porting Killzone 4 to the PC?  Far more detai would be lost!



Hynad on 04 April 2013
Cyborg13B said:

Oh come on that's just as good!  Considering the price of the GTX680: 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130768

 

$500.  And the price of the entire Playstation 4 alone is $400.  That's a pretty remarkable amount of detail.  A very minor loss of detail.  Plus consider that Epic Games didn't design it from the ground up for Playstation 4 - a radically different architecture from the PC.  Why not try porting Killzone 4 to the PC?  Far more detai would be lost!


Sony hasn't announced a price for the PS4 yet... -__-



Rafux on 04 April 2013

You are telling me that PCs are more powerful? IT CAN'T BE!



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HokageTenshi on 04 April 2013

some people really expect too much from a console that probably only 1/4 of a hi-end PC price huh...



Raze on 04 April 2013

So, PS4 is 2 PS3's duct taped together? ;)

It's a console, its not going to match a PC, not even a mid-range PC. This is expected. My 2 yr old $600 gaming rig is slightly more powerful than a PS4, that's the way technology goes in console land.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


VGKing on 04 April 2013
Hynad said:

When did Epic say that, exactly?

That article is misleading and missed something really important in Digital Foundry's analysis.

A nice update directly from Epic themselves:


Update: Brian Karis, senior graphics programmer at Epic Games adds some more insight in the comments below, explaining some of the more obvious differences - particularly in terms of the very different lighting schemes. At the technical level, the two demos are closer than it seems:

"The biggest changes actually came from the merging of two separate cinematics, the original Elemental and the extended Elemental we showed at PS4's launch event. Each had different sun directions and required some compromises to join them. This resulted in some major lighting differences that aren't platform related but were due to it being a joined cinematic. Another effect, in the original you could see the mountains through the door where in the merged one we made the view through the door white since the mountains outside were no longer the same. Same deal with the mountain fly by. The old mountain range doesn't exist in the new one. These changes from the merge make direct comparisons somewhat inaccurate.

"Feature wise most everything is the same, AA resolution, meshes, textures (PS4 has tons of memory), DOF (I assure you both use the same Bokeh DOF, not sure why that one shot has different focal range), motion blur.

"Biggest differences are SVOGI has been replaced with a more efficient GI solution, a slight scale down in the number of particles for some FX, and tessellation is broken on ps4 in the current build which the lava used for displacement. We will fix the tessellation in the future."

So yeah, this article is bullcrap, and fishing for clicks at the expense of integrity.

Thank you for posting thing. The demo is far from fully optimized. PS4 may be developer friendly, but it still requries work.

Mark Rein has express how happy he is with the PS4. I'm developers would always be happy with MOAR POWAH but there has to be middle-point between high-end and affordable. If you look at current PS3/360 prices....they are ridiculously high considering how late we are into the generation. NEXT-GEN, THESE CONSOLES WILL GET CHEAPER MUCH QUICKER, AND IT RETURN WILL PROBABLY SELL MUCH BETTER IN THEIR EARLY YEARS.



VGKing on 04 April 2013
Raze said:
So, PS4 is 2 PS3's duct taped together? ;)

It's a console, its not going to match a PC, not even a mid-range PC. This is expected. My 2 yr old $600 gaming rig is slightly more powerful than a PS4, that's the way technology goes in console land.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong. PS4 will match or even surpass mid-range PCs. The reasons for this are obvious, but I feel like you need to hear them.

-PS4 is a clsoed-sytem. Specs will remain the same throughout its life.
-Performance will improve over time as devs push the console more and more.
-APU design w/  unified 8GB GDDR5 RAM. GAMES WILL ACTUALLY BE BUILT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS.

PS4 isn't a mid-range PC. It's much more. It is a high-end console. There isn't a direct comparison to PC. So no, your 2 year old $600 gaming rig isn't more powerful than the PS4 unless you're counting pure unoptimized raw power. Can I ask you to post your specs? Screenshot would be best.



GameAnalyser on 04 April 2013

"Digital Foundry does note that the differences can be the result of the relative newness of PS4. "The DirectX 11 API is very mature while the PS4 tools and APIs are still in their initial stages of development--it's going to take time for devs to fully get to grips with the new hardware."

This. And Power never satisfies.