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Forums - Gaming - Xbox 720 Is Similar to PS4, Ubisoft Says

ethomaz on 03 April 2013
Solid-Stark said:

Judging from the respectable rumors, Ubisoft is probably summing things up by generalizing the average multiplat game.

Current rumors suggest:

PS4 8 Core Jaguar (Confirmed) @ 2.0Ghz vs. X720 8 Core Jaguar @ 1.6Ghz

PS4 8GB GDDR5 (Confirmed) vs X720 8GB DDR3

PS4 1.8 TF Radeon GPU vs. X720 1.2 TF Radeon GPU

X720 to have ESRAM.

A quick and vague, but acceptable, conclusion is PS4 50%-100% ahead of X720 in powah.

I think if Sony overclocked the CPU Microsoft will do that too... the CPU at the will be the same.

* 8-Core Jaguar @ 1.6-2.0Ghz for both

The GPU will use the same GCN Arch with little custom tweaks made by Sony/Microsoft... the big differente will be in the shaders units... so raw power.

* GCN+ 12 CUs (Nextbox) / 18 CUs (PS4)

The memory will be the same amount with different approach for speed and bandwidth.

* 8GB DDR3 + eSRAM (Nextbox) / 8GB GDDR5 (PS4)

Microsoft will use some fixed units like DataMoves and others stuffs to try to fix the issue with the bandwidth (the eSRAM is to help too) and free up the CPU and GPU in memory access. PS4 will use a standard PC interface only adding more ACEs and Queued Pipilines to GPU to reach more eficience in the compute and graphcs tasks (I guess Nextbox will use some tweaks for that too).

Both GPU is to work most close possible to 100% eficiency with Microsoft trying to optimize at maximum to not lost space because the raw power difference... so a 90% efficiency with Nextbox and 75% for PS4 is my bet... that will put the raw power close for the consoles.

I think both console will be close in power with advantage for PS4... the gap will be a little bigger than 360/PS3 gap... and the Sony exclusives will show a difference even bigger than they showed in this gen.

The gap Nextbox/PS4 to Wii U will be bigger than PS360 to Wii... the leap in generation is bigger than PS2 to PS3 too.

The PC approach will arch will help the graphical leap for all (consoles and PC)... we will se games in PC with better increase in graphics over the years instead to be pauses in the Crysis (2007) graphical level for five or more years.

The industry will sufer a little revolution the PC friendly development plus the full Digital approach.



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Jaywood2010 on 03 April 2013
VGKing said:
JayWood2010 said:
VGKing said:
JayWood2010 said:
Tabular said:
So... does 50% less GPU performance equal being aligned?


Off this one statement I have a strong feeling you know little about GPU's, CPU's, motherboards, HDD or SSD, or pretty much any other component that goes into a computer or console.  What makes this statement ridiculous is that not only do we not have a clue what GPU the NeXbox is but we don't even know the name of the NeXbox.  Somehow you know though? lol 

So you know the GPU in the PS4 is suppose to be capable of 1.84 tflops and similar to the AMD 7850 which is a midrange PC GPU.  As far as I'm aware not much else is known about the GPU in the PS4 so I doubt you even know the power of the PS4 either let alone the power of the NeXbox.

Welcome to vgchartz btw

@DietSoap  Same goes to you

Well we do have a clue...more than one actually detailing how poweful the GPU in the next Xbox will be. We have a general idea where the GPU lies and sources point to it being weaker than the one in the PS4. . Just because you don't like what you hear, it doesn't make it false. 

Anyway I find it funny how quickly people jumped to compare the specs. It's irrelevant. When Ubisoft says the consoles are similar he's talking about features, not technical specifications. The consoles are similar in that department too, bu there are some pretty big differences.

Not what Im saying.  I honestly dont care which one is more powerful.  PS3 is more powerful than the X360 but it didnt show most of the time.  all im saying is he doesnt know, nor do you what the specs are in the NeXbox.  Until MSFT confirms specs it is dumb to say 50% more powerful.  If they are similar then it will be very little difference, not 50%. Im not going to sit here saying it is weaker or mor powerful.  If they are similar i expect it to be pretty much like this generation where software and services matter.

There's an obvious reason for that. I don't even have to explain it to you. You already know.

The thing is that WE DO KNOW what the specs of the next Xbox are. We do. These are very reliable sources and that got it right with the PS4. There is no reason not to believe this information is 99% accurate save for some change in clock speeds.

I assume you are talking about ease of developement or that 3rd parties usually dont take advantage of power. Same could be said about PC.


@Bolded That is what I have been saying.  




       

VGKing on 03 April 2013
JayWood2010 said:
VGKing said:
JayWood2010 said:
VGKing said:
JayWood2010 said:
Tabular said:
So... does 50% less GPU performance equal being aligned?


Off this one statement I have a strong feeling you know little about GPU's, CPU's, motherboards, HDD or SSD, or pretty much any other component that goes into a computer or console.  What makes this statement ridiculous is that not only do we not have a clue what GPU the NeXbox is but we don't even know the name of the NeXbox.  Somehow you know though? lol 

So you know the GPU in the PS4 is suppose to be capable of 1.84 tflops and similar to the AMD 7850 which is a midrange PC GPU.  As far as I'm aware not much else is known about the GPU in the PS4 so I doubt you even know the power of the PS4 either let alone the power of the NeXbox.

Welcome to vgchartz btw

@DietSoap  Same goes to you

Well we do have a clue...more than one actually detailing how poweful the GPU in the next Xbox will be. We have a general idea where the GPU lies and sources point to it being weaker than the one in the PS4. . Just because you don't like what you hear, it doesn't make it false. 

Anyway I find it funny how quickly people jumped to compare the specs. It's irrelevant. When Ubisoft says the consoles are similar he's talking about features, not technical specifications. The consoles are similar in that department too, bu there are some pretty big differences.

Not what Im saying.  I honestly dont care which one is more powerful.  PS3 is more powerful than the X360 but it didnt show most of the time.  all im saying is he doesnt know, nor do you what the specs are in the NeXbox.  Until MSFT confirms specs it is dumb to say 50% more powerful.  If they are similar then it will be very little difference, not 50%. Im not going to sit here saying it is weaker or mor powerful.  If they are similar i expect it to be pretty much like this generation where software and services matter.

There's an obvious reason for that. I don't even have to explain it to you. You already know.

The thing is that WE DO KNOW what the specs of the next Xbox are. We do. These are very reliable sources and that got it right with the PS4. There is no reason not to believe this information is 99% accurate save for some change in clock speeds.

I assume you are talking about ease of developement or that 3rd parties usually dont take advantage of power. Same could be said about PC.


@Bolded That is what I have been saying.  

Glad we agree.



Daisuke72 on 03 April 2013
Machiavellian said:
Daisuke72 said:
Machiavellian said:
Daisuke72 said:
lol @ dude reaching for the Nextbox to have something more powerful than a 7970. Something more powerful than a $400 GPU that consumes a ton of energy and space. They're gonna somehow put a more powerful GPU in a console, and sell it for $400 - $500. They also have to account for the new Kinect, controllers, processor, RAM, Mobo, and etc. and yet their Video Card will be around, if not more than $250 - $300 after discounts.


Actually I do not care if Durango has a 7970 GPU, what I have a problem with is people who never take the time to actually research anything but blindly go by what someone tells them on the net.  I do not expect anyone to actually have followed the links I provided or actually try to see if VGleaks data could be incorrect.  Instead I expect people like you to make a comment, happy in ignorance or the inability to refute what I claimed and feel proud of your comment.

Instead of using the fanboy method to refute what I stated, actually show me where I am wrong or show me why VGleaks data is correct instead.  Give examples, show links, find facts things like that.  If you cannot do those things then your comment goes on the endless pile of people who make comments that do not know anything about what they are talking about.

I actually made this post to see if anyone can actually refute what I found because I could not.


"That do not know anything about what they are talking about." is supposed to "That doesn't know anything about what they're talking about." Just thought I'd point that out, cause it's ironic. 

 

Anyways, it's not a fanboy comment. It's simply called common sense, however, apparently since some people lack it, suddenly it's not common anymore. So I'll just say that logically Microsoft couldn't afford to put a $400 GPU in a console, that would cause heat problems, and consume a ton of power and would be loud as hell, and price it competitively, unless the rest of its components were shit. Even if they were, the console will still cost around $600 and that's with a few hundreds of dollars lost, and we all saw how that worked out for Sony.

 

In short, stop fantasizing. 

Actually its only common sense for lack of information. If you were saying that Sony could not afford to put a 400 GPU which of course would not cost MS anywhere close to that money in the next xbox that would be common sense. No one knows but MS what they can afford or how they plan to build the next box even so, my statements are more about leaks and how they can all be based on incorrect data but people seem to believe what they want.  I am not fantasizing about the greatness of the next box, I am just getting tired of people picking their own leak and stating it as fact.  I have shone that VGleaks does not know what they are talking about or that they might not even be correct on the Durango specs.  I am still waiting on someone to confirm or deny those findings.


Dude do you hear yourself? You're making assumptions that VGLeaks read the graph wrong, and the Nextbox will have a GPU more powerful than AMD's Flagship card, which costs $400+ and consumes a ton of energy and generates lots of heat, in a successor to a console that had heat issues, and it's only strength was being cheaper than the other alternative. Also, I stated in my post that after discoutnts they'd most likely be forking out $300 for this GPU which is more powerful than a $450 GPU. I'm not stating anything as a fact, all I'm saying is that you're reaching for something to prove the leaks are wrong. The leaks may be wrong, but the alternative that you're proposing simply won't happen.

 

Think about it for a second...no, not happening. 



Jaywood2010 on 03 April 2013
Daisuke72 said:
Machiavellian said:
Daisuke72 said:
Machiavellian said:
Daisuke72 said:
lol @ dude reaching for the Nextbox to have something more powerful than a 7970. Something more powerful than a $400 GPU that consumes a ton of energy and space. They're gonna somehow put a more powerful GPU in a console, and sell it for $400 - $500. They also have to account for the new Kinect, controllers, processor, RAM, Mobo, and etc. and yet their Video Card will be around, if not more than $250 - $300 after discounts.


Actually I do not care if Durango has a 7970 GPU, what I have a problem with is people who never take the time to actually research anything but blindly go by what someone tells them on the net.  I do not expect anyone to actually have followed the links I provided or actually try to see if VGleaks data could be incorrect.  Instead I expect people like you to make a comment, happy in ignorance or the inability to refute what I claimed and feel proud of your comment.

Instead of using the fanboy method to refute what I stated, actually show me where I am wrong or show me why VGleaks data is correct instead.  Give examples, show links, find facts things like that.  If you cannot do those things then your comment goes on the endless pile of people who make comments that do not know anything about what they are talking about.

I actually made this post to see if anyone can actually refute what I found because I could not.


"That do not know anything about what they are talking about." is supposed to "That doesn't know anything about what they're talking about." Just thought I'd point that out, cause it's ironic. 

 

Anyways, it's not a fanboy comment. It's simply called common sense, however, apparently since some people lack it, suddenly it's not common anymore. So I'll just say that logically Microsoft couldn't afford to put a $400 GPU in a console, that would cause heat problems, and consume a ton of power and would be loud as hell, and price it competitively, unless the rest of its components were shit. Even if they were, the console will still cost around $600 and that's with a few hundreds of dollars lost, and we all saw how that worked out for Sony.

 

In short, stop fantasizing. 

Actually its only common sense for lack of information. If you were saying that Sony could not afford to put a 400 GPU which of course would not cost MS anywhere close to that money in the next xbox that would be common sense. No one knows but MS what they can afford or how they plan to build the next box even so, my statements are more about leaks and how they can all be based on incorrect data but people seem to believe what they want.  I am not fantasizing about the greatness of the next box, I am just getting tired of people picking their own leak and stating it as fact.  I have shone that VGleaks does not know what they are talking about or that they might not even be correct on the Durango specs.  I am still waiting on someone to confirm or deny those findings.


Dude do you hear yourself? You're making assumptions that VGLeaks read the graph wrong, and the Nextbox will have a GPU more powerful than AMD's Flagship card, which costs $400+ and consumes a ton of energy and generates lots of heat, in a successor to a console that had heat issues, and it's only strength was being cheaper than the other alternative. Also, I stated in my post that after discoutnts they'd most likely be forking out $300 for this GPU which is more powerful than a $450 GPU. I'm not stating anything as a fact, all I'm saying is that you're reaching for something to prove the leaks are wrong. The leaks may be wrong, but the alternative that you're proposing simply won't happen.

 

Think about it for a second...no, not happening. 


Neither one will have a GPU that costs $400.  The PS4 is using a card that is similar to an AMD 7850 which is roughly $199. MSFT isn't going to get a $400 GPU either. It makes no sense to do that from a business stand point.  They will likely both be parallel with one another.




       

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BlueFalcon on 04 April 2013
Machiavellian said:
If this is correct than instead of 12 CU cores averaging out to 1.2 TFlops, the Durango actually is 48CU which averages around 3.8TFlops

No. What you are saying doesn't make any sense since if AMD could create a GPU that's "48 CU" equivalent, they would have already released it to replace HD7970 to combat the GeForce Titan. Besides that, looking at the leaked detailed specs, there is no "hidden" magic/performance in the 12 CU part that somehow makes it a 48 CU one. That's not how GCN works.

http://www.techspot.com/news/51534-detailed-xbox-720-gpu-specifications-leak-online.html

It's 12 Compute Units with 64 Shaders per unit, for a total number of 768 Shaders/Stream  processors operating at 800mhz. The performance level of the rumoured specs for Xbox 720's GPU is at HD7770 level, or 1.2 Tflops. There is no "funny math" of any kind. The GPU, based on rumoured specs is significantly slower than PS4's. 

If MS leaked fake specs on purpose or will revise the GPU, then everything changes. However based on the 12 Compute Units and the total GPU memory bandwidth, the GPU is way worse than PS4's. Since GCN 1.0 is what AMD has and their next generation GCN architecture won't be out until 2014, the instructions per clock for Durango's GCN and PS4's part should be very similar. There is no way a 12 CU GCN part with 68 GB/sec memory bandwidth can ever outperform an 18 CU GCN part with 176GB/sec memory bandwidth. 

Since AMD's fastest mobile GPU is HD7970M at the moment and that has 20 CUs with 1280 Stream Processors/Shaders, there is no way MS is fitting an HD7970 inside Xbox Durango since such a GPU uses 180W of power on its own. Also, chances are to save on costs, MS is also going with a custom APU like Sony is. Since HD7950/7970 silicon is 365mm2 on its own vs. 212mm2 for Pitcairn (HD7850-7870), the cost and complexity of combining a Tahiti XT (HD7950/7970) chip and an 8-core Jaguar CPU is prohibitive. 



nickoB on 04 April 2013

eager to see what it will be like



BlueFalcon on 04 April 2013

Let's not forget that Sony is allowing developers to access lower level of hardware coding. 

"Using a DX11.1+ feature set, developers are able to use many of the same tools used to program PC titles but also have additional debugging tools and low level access to the hardware. A new low level API below DirectX, but above the driver level gives developers deeper access to the shader pipeline."

 http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/GDC-2013-Sony-Reveals-Additional-Details-About-PS4-Hardware

Low-level access and the "wrapper" graphics API

In terms of rendering, there was some interesting news. Norden pointed out one of the principal weaknesses of DirectX 11 and OpenGL - they need to service a vast array of different hardware. The advantage of PlayStation 4 is that it's a fixed hardware platform, meaning that the specifics of the tech can be addressed directly. (It's worth pointing out at this point that the next-gen Xbox has hardware-specific extensions on top of the standard DX11 API.)

"We can significantly enhance performance by bypassing a lot of the artificial DirectX limitations and bottlenecks that are imposed so DirectX can work across a wide range of hardware," he revealed.

The development environment is designed to be flexible enough to get code up and running quickly, but offering the option for the more adventurous developers to get more out of the platform. To that end, PlayStation 4 has two rendering APIs.

"One of them is the absolute low-level API, you're talking directly to the hardware. It's used to draw the static RAM buffers and feed them directly to the GPU," Norden shared. "It's much, much lower level than you're used to with DirectX or OpenGL but it's not quite at the driver level. It's very similar if you've programmed PS3 or PS Vita, very similar to those graphics libraries."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-playstation-4

 

You cannot just look at the hardware and ignore how developers will code for the console (PS3 was the perfect example of this). This means even if Xbox next matches PS4's specs exactly, PS4 will still perform faster due to developers having access to lower hardware level.

Looks like Sony is doubling up against MS: rumoured faster hardware and superior/more efficient access to hardware coding that goes lower than standard DX11, which will allow developers to extract more power than the theoretical performance of a Desktop HD7850 2GB operating in a standard DX11.1 environment.



walsufnir on 04 April 2013
BlueFalcon said:
<snip>

You cannot just look at the hardware and ignore how developers will code for the console (PS3 was the perfect example of this). This means even if Xbox next matches PS4's specs exactly, PS4 will still perform faster due to developers having access to lower hardware level.

Looks like Sony is doubling up against MS: rumoured faster hardware and superior/more efficient access to hardware coding that goes lower than standard DX11, which will allow developers to extract more power than the theoretical performance of a Desktop HD7850 2GB. 


I still can't believe that ppl keep repeating it over and over again. Consoles always offer direct access to the hardware, no matter if Sony, Nintendo or MS. Do you think Halo 4 or Forza Horizon would be possible if MS wouldn't offer a way to gain access close to metal? Really? The XDK always used a designated version made for Xbox (360) as MS knows about the overhead of high-level-APIs and they always found ways to deliver devs the tools to access hardware directly.



hasonap on 04 April 2013
Blood_Tears said:
slowmo said:
The meltdowns on this site are going to be delicious in May.


Tagging comment for then..


Seeing as the meltdowns has alreayd started I could only imagine what it will look like