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Forums - Nintendo - Don't compare WiiU and GameCube

TheLastStarFighter said:
echoesfromthepast said:

The amount of ignorance in the OP is too damn high!

How so?

Judging by his name I think he is a big fan of metroid prime 2 (and probably gamecube) 

 

OT: I think you are right. Looking at the games for gamecube they always seemed to be the weaker counterpart of something. As you said with metroid and halo, and the art style of zelda. And the consoles design as well. I'm just hoping nintendo have taken notes.



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platformmaster918 said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Can people please stop comparing these systems.  In particular, I'm tired of the statement that Gamecube had lots of awesome games and didn't sell well, so how are games going to help WiiU.  The systems are nothing alike.

People say Mario Sunshine, Zelda: Windwaker, Smash Brothers, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Metroid Prime and MarioKart DD couldn't sell Gamecube and they were amazing games.  I'm sorry, but they aren't.  Well, they may be great games, but I wouldn't know, because I didn't play them and didn't want to. I bought a PS2 instead.  And an XBox.  Mario Sunshine was a dorky name for a game with Mario using a watergun on vacation.  Zelda was a cartoon.  Metroid Prime may be amazing, but to me it looked weak and boring compared to Halo.

Now, when I saw Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda: TP and Wii Sports, I was sold on a Wii in an instant.  The realistic, epic-looking Zelda and the mind-blowing Mario Galaxy were spectacular.  Throw in New Super Mario Bros Wii for good measure and you have some serious 1st party titles that appeal to me and a lot of other people.

When it comes to Wii U, we haven't seen the major titles yet.  I would have every reason to believe that Nintendo has learned what sells and what does not, and Wii U will be receiving Wii-like titles that are system sellers.  The Mario will follow that path of Galaxy and be impressive visually and have an appealing theme.  Mario won't likely be going on vacation again, ever, especially with WiiU sales struggling.  Zelda will likely be a back-to-basics graphical showcase that sucks in core gamers.  No waterguns.  No toons.  As such, the games will likely appeal to a broad audience - the Wii audience - and move systems.

Also, the Gamecube was a purple lunchbox with a legoland controller.  I know some of you may have loved it, but most adults and many teens wouldn't touch it, rightly or wrongly.  No amount of good games could sell it.  Wii U is sleek, black (or white) and contemporary looking.  Give it games and people will be happy to have it in their living room.

but didn't those games sell really well on GC?  Also they were some of the highest praised games in history.

Not saying they weren't good, and yes they did sell well as a percentage of GC owners, but the broader gaming market skipped them and the system.  Only the most core Nintendo fands bought the system and the games.  I consider myself a casual Nintendo fan.  I'll pick up their system (or any system) if it appeals to me but I have low brand-loyalty.  There are a lot of us out there.  We are the people that can take a 7 million selling MarioKart on GC and turn it into a 34 million selling game on Wii.  We like Nintendo's games, but not unconditionally.  The GC was ugli and the games had bad themes so we didn't buy them.  The WiiU is pretty and as far as we know the games will have good themes so we may buy them.  WiiU may bomb, but if it does it's for very different reasons than GC.



Wright said:
TheLastStarFighter said:

Absolutely not.  I'm blaming the games and the sytems themselves.  The games were poorly thoughtout.  They may play well, but a major component to any game is the theme and art style.  In the gamecube era Nintendo made terrible decisions.  Mario with a watergun was a very bad decisision. Calling the game susnshine was a bad decision.  Making Zelda a cartoon was a bad decisison.  No amount of advertising could make these games seem cool.  The games were flawed in their very themes.  If you took God of War and took away the greek theme, made it cell-shaded, and had Kratos running on the beach cleaning buildings, God of War: Jamaica would not sell well and definitely wouldn't move systems.  And if you put said game on a purple box with a handle it wouldn't sell systems, no matter how good it was.


So...Mario Sunshine (A game that sold over six million units) and Zelda Wind Waker (A timeless, outstanding game), combined to the fact that Gamecube was purple, are the problems that made Gamecube not sell very well?

 

That's funny, your example. You mean that if we took God of War and we took the greek theme, made it cell-shaded and had him jumping through galaxies, God Of War:Galaxies would definitively move systems? Because as I've stated, Sunshine sold pretty well.

 

I'm not getting your point, but I'm trying. You're blaming games as the cause for not selling consoles, and the console's colour too?

I think you're missing the point because you're struggling with reading comprehension in some way. I never said have Kratos jumping through Galaxies.

But yes. A purple, over-powered, games-only focused sytem that has a multi-colored controller with games with very childish themes like Sushine and cartoons, will not sell well to a broad audience.

And I am saying WiiU is nothing like it.  It is black and adult in appearence.  It is multi-media with a mainstream-friendly tablet interface. And if its games are like Wii, they will not have sunshine or cartoons as their theme.  It may or may not sell well, but it will be for different reasons than the Gamecube.



Wii U is GCN 2, no matter how much you want to believe it's otherwise. I have called this after the initial announcement, way before the release and I'm sticking to this.

GCN games were awesome. I bought the biggest titles when I got my Wii and loved them. You can't say a bad thing about games like Metroid 1 and 2, Resident Evil 1 and 0, Eternal Darkness and other big core games, so stop saying that all exclusives were Mario on holiday or cartoon crap. Also don't forget it got the best versions of multiplats!

The problem GCN had is that it tried to be a core console, but failed miserably due to many stupid and avoidable mistakes - just what the Wii U is doing right now.

GCN was the most powerful console of its generation, it had awesome exclusives for the core audience and could be the go-to console for core gamers, but... it looked like a joke. I remember seeing a photo of it in a magazine and after the first glance I knew there was no way in hell I was getting that, no matter what games it had. That is why I only discovered all these awesome games when I bought the Wii (and the GCN catalog was a bigger reason for me to get Wii than the Wii catalog).
Wii U is doing the same thing. It's trying to satisfy the core - it looks good, has some nice core exclusives (Bayo 2, Zelda, Metroid, SSB, Zombi U) they even humiliated themselves by copying the X-box controller to be even more "core-friendly" (why Nintendo, why?). But they don't stand a chance, cause the console is far too weak and closer to current gen than next gen.

To sum up - both consoles have huge flaws, this is why they will share a common fate. Nintendo caught lighning in a bottle with the Wii, but that won't repeat. The casuals have moved on to tablets and smartphones and Nintendo is back to the old N64/GCN level. My bet is Wii U will sell 40-45 million consoles. More than GameCube, since it has a much stronger brand name after the Wii. For example I will be getting a Wii U and I have never had a GCN. But it will never be a success and won't compete with PS4/X720 for the first place in next gen.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

TheLastStarFighter said:

People say Zelda: Windwaker couldn't sell Gamecube and it was an amazing game. I'm sorry, but it's not.  Well, it may be a great game, but I wouldn't know, because I didn't play it and didn't want to. I bought a PS2 instead. And an XBox. Zelda was a cartoon.

The realistic, epic-looking Zelda and the mind-blowing Mario Galaxy were spectacular.

Zelda will likely be a back-to-basics graphical showcase that sucks in core gamers.... No toons.

Get out of my house



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I struggle to imagine a Wii Sports-esque game that will sell WiiU's.

Why? The Gamepad.

With Wii Nintendo identified the dual analog controller as a major culprit that was cutting them off from people who used to play their games. It was too complex. Hence the wiimote. Motion controls were immediately understandable by everyone and brought back people who hadn't played Nintendo games (or any) for many years. Like myself for instance.

However with the WiiU Nintendo has gone back to the very problem they had gotten rid of with Wii. the Dual analog Gamepad. Which is why I call the WiiU the antithesis of the Wii. Instead of making things simplier, they've made the most complex controller ever. It's simply not appealing. Nor is it in any way innovative nor can I imagine any kind of gameplay it'd enhance or create what hasn't been done already (DS/3DS/smartphones/tablets).

If people want a dual analog controller why not get 360/PS3 which are cheaper with more games and also support motion games?

If I want a dual analog with touch screen that can play on TV and travel with me I will soon be able to get a Galaxy S4 for that - which I can stream movies on, program and watch TV, internet, endless games and hey, it's a phone.

WiiU has outdated the day it launched by seven years. 360 could easily have had a touch screen dual analog controller if MS had wanted in 2005. DS had one years before that.

The only thing WiiU has to stand on to differient it are Nintendo games and without a Wii Sports/Wii Fit like hit (which will be neither Wii Sports U or Wii Fit U - it's have to be something new that overcame the hinderence of the gamepad's complexity to the mass market) 40m would be about the max WiiU could be expected to sell.



 

TheLastStarFighter said:

I think you're missing the point because you're struggling with reading comprehension in some way. I never said have Kratos jumping through Galaxies.

But yes. A purple, over-powered, games-only focused sytem that has a multi-colored controller with games with very childish themes like Sushine and cartoons, will not sell well to a broad audience.

And I am saying WiiU is nothing like it.  It is black and adult in appearence.  It is multi-media with a mainstream-friendly tablet interface. And if its games are like Wii, they will not have sunshine or cartoons as their theme.  It may or may not sell well, but it will be for different reasons than the Gamecube.

...o.O

 

It was on Gamecube too.

 

...among others.



the sales and releases are disapointing on wii u and i hope it can Do wii numbers at the end of the Generation



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The only 1st party title I owned on GC was Mario Kart: Double Dash. I picked up the Prime Trilogy on Wii because of the new controls. And Twilight Princess on Wii was the first Zelda game I played since Ocarina of Time.

I would agree, the 1st party line-up on GC was not nearly as stellar as on Wii. It just had more third-party support with ports but the GC still missed out on the highly popular GTA games, which became the best selling games on PS2.



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TheLastStarFighter said:
kitler53 said:
wiiU and gamecube share the most important characteristic to wiiU's future: the shape of the sales curve.


"I would have every reason to believe that Nintendo has learned what sells and what does not, and Wii U will be receiving Wii-like titles that are system sellers."

if that were so wii wouldn't be sitting at ~1/5 of the currently weekly sales of ps3 or 360. if that were so wiiU wouldn't be sitting at less than vita's weekly sales (aligned for launch).

The sales are currently weak, that's for sure.  But the point is, the games that Nintendo released for Gamecube were not system sellers.  The games they released for Wii were systemd sellers. I would expect the games for Wii U to be more like their Wii counterparts when they come.  And other than sluggish sales, there is almost nothing similar between Wii U and Gamecube, in look, design, function or games.  Their plights are very different.

Your second comment seems confused.  The games - the ones I'm saying will be in the style of Wii and not Gamecube - aren't out yet.  That, and the continued strength of PS360, are reasons for weak sales.  It has nothing to do with the games being like the Gamecube games.  They aren't, and aren't out yet.

which wiiU games?  really, which games are you refering to?

pikmin?  ..failed to ignite the gamecube.

mario kart?  ..failed to ignite the gamecube.

3D mario?  ..failed to ignite the gamecube.

monilith soft's game (project x for wiiU)?  ..failed to ignite the gamecube.

 

oh wait, i know, you are waiting for the "wii" games.  you know, as soon as a 2D mario or a party game collection like nintendo land release!  ..err, wait a sec.  Oh right, wii fit!  ...it's going to follow up with another massive sucess just like the 3DS version of nintendogs!  awww... shit.

there is nothing confused about my second statement.  the wii tanked in the end.  no other generation winner has ever fallen so quickly and so dramatically.  3DS needed a 32% price cut just to stay afloat and is still tracking below the DS with a trajectory to be massively down GenOverGen.  poor wiiU sales is just another piece of evidence that all leads to one ultimate conclusion...

nintendo has no idea what made the wii was a success and they cannot recreate it.

 

..but i don't expect you to understand that.  afterall, you were the only person on this site that was still adament that wiiU was doing wonderfully and simply supply constraint when everyone else (even the most staunch nintendo fans) we're able to objectively see the evidence even if they didn't like the conclusions it pointed to.