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Forums - Politics - Republicans Sign Brief in Support of Gay Marriage

badgenome on 27 February 2013
Adinnieken said:

They're Republicans because they rode the Tea Party wave that impacted the Republican party, but they are Libertarians.  They are not small "L" Libertarians, they are Libertarians running as Republicans.

This is like saying Arlen Specter was never really a Republican (or Democrat) because he was previously a Democrat (and Republican). Somebody is a member of whatever party they're currently in, period. And since Rand Paul was never a member of the Libertarian Party, and has actually had it out with them over a number of issues such as abortion and his endorsement of Mitt Romney, he is a libertarian but not a Libertarian.



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Kasz216 on 27 February 2013
Screamapillar said:
mrstickball said:
badgenome said:
mrstickball said:
If the Republicans would drop the social crap, and try to limit the size/growth of government, they would easily start besting the Democrats in federal elections. Why they pander to the religious right, I have no idea. Its not like that group is suddenly going to go Democrat any time soon.

This assumes that Republicans are genuinely in favor of limiting government, and that there are more votes for them pandering to libertarians than to social conservatives. I'm not at all sure that either of those is the case.


I think that there are a few republicans that genuinely want to reduce/limit the size of government. However, they usually get ostrasized by the mainstream GOP. I have no doubt that guys such as Rand Paul and Justin Amash are genuine. However, they seem to be outside of the mainstream (unfortunately).

Well, as is written in most GOP mission statements, a small, limited federal governemnt is the back-bone of the party platform.  So, I don't see how anyone could possibly consider themselves a Republican if they don't want a small, limited federal government.  That would be like a Democrat wanting to ban federal funding to Planned Parenthood.  Completely antithetical to the basis of the party.

I do agree that a lot of Republicans forget that they're supposed to be in favor of a limited government.  Such as most of what the Republican did in D.C. during Bush's terms.  But that was more a reaction to being in power and wanting to make it seem like they were doing something than intentionally being the opposite of limited-government.

They exist... in pretty decent numbers actually.

Or did anyway.  I think they may have took a serious beating in the 2010 elections after they supported Obamacare.



Kasz216 on 27 February 2013
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
pokoko said:
Rut roh. More Republican in-fighting soon? The party is going to split at the seams one day--which would probably be a good thing.

Oh there already is a whole lot of Republican infighting.

Just last week there was a big controversy because of the Tea Party sending out a mailer in which Karl Rove was dressed as a Nazi.

WWE has a Tea party parody character named Zeb Coulter.

Moderate Republicans have started their own "Moderate Super Pac" to defeat people in primaries they see as unelectable in general elections.

 

Essentially there is argueably a there way fight going on right now between the "extreme moderate" Republicans trying to get in Republicans who are socially moderate and economically liberal,  the Tea Party who is trying to get in politicians who are socially conservative and economically conservative and the major GOP establishment who is trying to get in the usual socially conservative/economically liberal group.

 

Still less dysfucntional then Italy though.  Fucking Berlusconi.

You just have to laugh at Italy at this point. Berlusconi's half the reason they're in the mess they're in currently, to speak nothing of the whore-mongering and the fact that he's under indictment for tax fraud.

Part of his paltform was specifically "I will pardon everyone who has evaded their taxes."  

I, don't even know what to make of Italian politics.  It's like watching an exagerated version of our own system that somebody would make up as a parody.



outlawauron on 27 February 2013
Kantor said:
kitler53 said:
pokoko said:
Rut roh. More Republican in-fighting soon? The party is going to split at the seams one day--which would probably be a good thing.


slit?  more like exile the crazy and become all the better for it.   seeing this news makes me happy.  i could easily become a republican (or at least a swing voter)  if they show more progress like this.

There are 232 Republican representatives in the House. Two of those signed this brief.

Even if ten times that number actually support it, that's still an overwhelming majority against it. This is not indicative of a split, and it's certainly not a sign that the social conservatives will be exiled.

I expect better from the VGC detective.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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Kasz216 on 28 February 2013
outlawauron said:
Kantor said:
kitler53 said:
pokoko said:
Rut roh. More Republican in-fighting soon? The party is going to split at the seams one day--which would probably be a good thing.


slit?  more like exile the crazy and become all the better for it.   seeing this news makes me happy.  i could easily become a republican (or at least a swing voter)  if they show more progress like this.

There are 232 Republican representatives in the House. Two of those signed this brief.

Even if ten times that number actually support it, that's still an overwhelming majority against it. This is not indicative of a split, and it's certainly not a sign that the social conservatives will be exiled.

I expect better from the VGC detective.

How many was it anyway?  I couldn't find a full list.



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outlawauron on 28 February 2013
Kasz216 said:
outlawauron said:
Kantor said:
kitler53 said:
pokoko said:
Rut roh. More Republican in-fighting soon? The party is going to split at the seams one day--which would probably be a good thing.


slit?  more like exile the crazy and become all the better for it.   seeing this news makes me happy.  i could easily become a republican (or at least a swing voter)  if they show more progress like this.

There are 232 Republican representatives in the House. Two of those signed this brief.

Even if ten times that number actually support it, that's still an overwhelming majority against it. This is not indicative of a split, and it's certainly not a sign that the social conservatives will be exiled.

I expect better from the VGC detective.

How many was it anyway?  I couldn't find a full list.

Just assuming the views for every other representative, while ignoring the very obvious split in the party.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

sc94597 on 02 March 2013

Good, it's a useless authoritarian aspect of the party. Now all they need to do is end their warfare state endorsement and we'll have the GOP become a "Republic"an party again. The Republicans need libertarians since the populists and modern liberals are on the side of Democrats.



Mr Khan on 02 March 2013
sc94597 said:

Good, it's a useless authoritarian aspect of the party. Now all they need to do is end their warfare state endorsement and we'll have the GOP become a "Republic"an party again. The Republicans need libertarians since the populists and modern liberals are on the side of Democrats.

I'd argue that the populists are split. Populism is about "giving the people what they want" in the sense of the common folk-wisdom being of prime importance, so populism would endorse such things as gay marriage bans if the majority of the people don't want gay marriage to be legal, disregarding notions of "rights." The Tea Party movement is very populist, but so are other sets that do lean left.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

:D on 02 March 2013

That party will be dysfunctional for decades.

Democrats are gonna to win a lot of elections in a row, already at 2.

Predictions of what the parties will be like in 50 years.

Republicans: Moderate Libertarians

Democrats: They'll be like how the European Socialist Parties are now. Pretty far left-wing.



sc94597 on 02 March 2013
Mr Khan said:
sc94597 said:

Good, it's a useless authoritarian aspect of the party. Now all they need to do is end their warfare state endorsement and we'll have the GOP become a "Republic"an party again. The Republicans need libertarians since the populists and modern liberals are on the side of Democrats.

I'd argue that the populists are split. Populism is about "giving the people what they want" in the sense of the common folk-wisdom being of prime importance, so populism would endorse such things as gay marriage bans if the majority of the people don't want gay marriage to be legal, disregarding notions of "rights." The Tea Party movement is very populist, but so are other sets that do lean left.

Of course, though the majority of people are either complacent or for gay-marriage, so populists cooperate with modern liberals. The Tea Party has, indeed, become quite populist in certain areas, I won't deny that. When I speak of populists though, I'm speaking of mobocrats. Those who want the majority to rule in an authoritarian state and whom wish to have an authoritarian state which they can change. This includes many of the fundamentalist "progressives" who follow many of the ideals of the early 20th century progressives (pre-FDR.) These people may or may not be modern liberals as well, so I distinguished them from liberal democrats as a separate group of the Democrat party.