By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Cliff Bleszinski: Industry turmoil worst since '80s crash

haxxiy said:
Understandable. We are used to multiple consoles launching successfully during the this generation. But in the years of the PS2 and even before, the usual was multiple platforms to fail and one or two actually being meaningful to the industry. Imagine an industry with the Dreamcast, Gamecube and Xbox alone in the market before the PS2 came out. Or the Saturn, Jaguar and Pippin before the PS1 and the N64.

Well, I think the main reason the PS2 / PS1 were so successful is that they attracted the third parties. Consequently, the other consoles failed because they didn't offer anything the leader didn't already have. If there had been no PS2, for instance, all the games would have simply gone to the GC / Xbox, which would have sold tens of millions more.



Around the Network
Otakumegane said:
I seriously cannot understand why people think Ninty will be reduced to 3rd party.

They have cash to survive and the 3DS looking to rake in $$ for the next couple years.

Agreed. Nintendo and M$ have massive cash reserves. I know someone will quote this and disagree, but Sony is the one in the red. Literally. If the ps4 slips even slightly, (though from what I've seen their really pushing well) it could be game over.



leatherhat said:
Otakumegane said:
I seriously cannot understand why people think Ninty will be reduced to 3rd party.

They have cash to survive and the 3DS looking to rake in $$ for the next couple years.


3ds sales are very poor compared to ds. And the handheld market will continue to be eaten alive by phones/tablets. And nintendo can not stand alone as a home console maker. 

So what? Nintendo is making money on the software and im pretty sure the 3ds is sold at a profit now. As long as ninty is making profit they should be fine



Bet with ninjablade:

Ninjablade wins if the next 5 multiplat on the wii u are inferior to the 360 version.

I win if one of the 5 mulitplats are on par or superior on the Wii U.

gronk-bonk said:
leatherhat said:
Otakumegane said:
I seriously cannot understand why people think Ninty will be reduced to 3rd party.

They have cash to survive and the 3DS looking to rake in $$ for the next couple years.


3ds sales are very poor compared to ds. And the handheld market will continue to be eaten alive by phones/tablets. And nintendo can not stand alone as a home console maker. 

So what? Nintendo is making money on the software and im pretty sure the 3ds is sold at a profit now. As long as ninty is making profit they should be fine

For now. Betting your future on a dying (quickly) market is not a great idea. 



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

richardhutnik said:
theRepublic said:
richardhutnik said:
avais1993 said:
I seriously doubt that consoles are in any state of turmoil, yes people are downloading games on tablets/mobiles, but most of these games are FREE and for the casual market who want something to play whilst their on the train to work.

If anything its opening up casual gamers to games that might lead them to buy a console and experiance some true gaming, people will always look at consoles as the main "gaming machine", it doubt that's going to change anytime soon, and true, graphics are improving on tablets and are pretty good, but its just uncomfortable to play on i cant see them taking anything away from consoles anytime soon.

The landscape of the industry might be different, but the kings are the same, new technologies open up but until they become superior (without the associated cost of gaming pc's) then consoles will always be the industry standard.

Look at the profit margins and studios closing.  And the industry is DEMANDING that new consoles get releases, because they think that fixes things.  People can't see the future here.  How many more playing Wolverine but can only carry 2 weapon FPS titles do we need?  The growth is in the iPhone/iPad settings with much smaller costs.

I don't see a sustainable business model in the mobile gaming market until we see a massive contraction in the number of mobile developers.  There needs to be a mobile gaming "crash" for the good of that market.  The herd needs to be culled.

There is just not enough money to go around for everyone on those micro-transactions.

Thus the concerns that Cliff was talking about here.  Thing is that the barriers to entry are so low, developer studios keep popping up like weeds.  It will never really cull down.  When you have individuals who only have one place they can work, they won't move.  They have the dream of trying to make it, so they stick around.  I am speaking also about myself here.  For me, my job options are low pay tech support out of the house, with student loans under water, or trying to break into the game business.  Irregardless of how bad it is, I stick around.  And I keep cranking out content.  My area is tabletop games, but the ideas are the same.   Not everyone can be like Cliffy B and stay to the wayside.

Pretty much you see a version of the hell known as Second Life here.  No matter how much people lose money on it, they still stick in it, hoping to turn the table.

Thing about a crash though is that you will get things culled all over, but you end up with possibly people losing faith.  The funding to start capital dries up in the process, and everything contracts.  The whole movie-like experience you see people here crave will not be sustainable.

First, keep at it and I hope you break through with something awesome.  Now on with my point.

What you are describing is basically a never ending 1983 for the mobile industry.  Something is going to give eventually.  That will not last forever.  At some point the start-up capital is going to dry up.  The few strong companies will survive, and the rest will fade away.

You seem to be talking about the console side in your last sentence.  Ever increasing graphics is indeed not sustainable either.  At some point it will need to level off.  It seems as though companies don't realize that they are cutting their own margins by forcing ever more expensive technologies into their games.  I guess we will see how many realize it before they cut their own throat.



Switch Code: SW-7377-9189-3397 -- Nintendo Network ID: theRepublic -- Steam ID: theRepublic

Now Playing
Switch - Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
3DS - Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Trilogy) (2005/2014)
Mobile - Yugioh Duel Links (2017)
Mobile - Super Mario Run (2017)
PC - Borderlands 2 (2012)
PC - Deep Rock Galactic (2020)

Around the Network
leatherhat said:
gronk-bonk said:
leatherhat said:
Otakumegane said:
I seriously cannot understand why people think Ninty will be reduced to 3rd party.

They have cash to survive and the 3DS looking to rake in $$ for the next couple years.


3ds sales are very poor compared to ds. And the handheld market will continue to be eaten alive by phones/tablets. And nintendo can not stand alone as a home console maker. 

So what? Nintendo is making money on the software and im pretty sure the 3ds is sold at a profit now. As long as ninty is making profit they should be fine

For now. Betting your future on a dying (quickly) market is not a great idea. 


i don't get it. 3DS is selling well. 



Bet with ninjablade:

Ninjablade wins if the next 5 multiplat on the wii u are inferior to the 360 version.

I win if one of the 5 mulitplats are on par or superior on the Wii U.

theRepublic said:
richardhutnik said:
theRepublic said:
richardhutnik said:
avais1993 said:
I seriously doubt that consoles are in any state of turmoil, yes people are downloading games on tablets/mobiles, but most of these games are FREE and for the casual market who want something to play whilst their on the train to work.

If anything its opening up casual gamers to games that might lead them to buy a console and experiance some true gaming, people will always look at consoles as the main "gaming machine", it doubt that's going to change anytime soon, and true, graphics are improving on tablets and are pretty good, but its just uncomfortable to play on i cant see them taking anything away from consoles anytime soon.

The landscape of the industry might be different, but the kings are the same, new technologies open up but until they become superior (without the associated cost of gaming pc's) then consoles will always be the industry standard.

Look at the profit margins and studios closing.  And the industry is DEMANDING that new consoles get releases, because they think that fixes things.  People can't see the future here.  How many more playing Wolverine but can only carry 2 weapon FPS titles do we need?  The growth is in the iPhone/iPad settings with much smaller costs.

I don't see a sustainable business model in the mobile gaming market until we see a massive contraction in the number of mobile developers.  There needs to be a mobile gaming "crash" for the good of that market.  The herd needs to be culled.

There is just not enough money to go around for everyone on those micro-transactions.

Thus the concerns that Cliff was talking about here.  Thing is that the barriers to entry are so low, developer studios keep popping up like weeds.  It will never really cull down.  When you have individuals who only have one place they can work, they won't move.  They have the dream of trying to make it, so they stick around.  I am speaking also about myself here.  For me, my job options are low pay tech support out of the house, with student loans under water, or trying to break into the game business.  Irregardless of how bad it is, I stick around.  And I keep cranking out content.  My area is tabletop games, but the ideas are the same.   Not everyone can be like Cliffy B and stay to the wayside.

Pretty much you see a version of the hell known as Second Life here.  No matter how much people lose money on it, they still stick in it, hoping to turn the table.

Thing about a crash though is that you will get things culled all over, but you end up with possibly people losing faith.  The funding to start capital dries up in the process, and everything contracts.  The whole movie-like experience you see people here crave will not be sustainable.

First, keep at it and I hope you break through with something awesome.  Now on with my point.

What you are describing is basically a never ending 1983 for the mobile industry.  Something is going to give eventually.  That will not last forever.  At some point the start-up capital is going to dry up.  The few strong companies will survive, and the rest will fade away.

You seem to be talking about the console side in your last sentence.  Ever increasing graphics is indeed not sustainable either.  At some point it will need to level off.  It seems as though companies don't realize that they are cutting their own margins by forcing ever more expensive technologies into their games.  I guess we will see how many realize it before they cut their own throat.

What happened in the 1980s is the consoles dried up, and people went elsewhere, like onto home computers.  On a personal level you could see a perpetual 1983, but not as bad.  What you do have is some titles do breakthrough and people do well.  But it will keep renewing, as indie guys see the success a few have and jump into the ring.  The thing is that the start-up capital can dry up, but there is still Kickstarter and also the likes of self-funding.  The mobile industry is really cheap to make stuff.  All you need is the dev environment.

In regards to my games, I am now getting stuff into Games Magazine, and trying to help get gamers and developers organized where I am, so I can get playtesters and go to the next level.

In regards to consoles, it is important also to know the full statement of Moore's Law, which is not only that computing power goes up exponentially, but so do production and development costs.   It is hitting that point now, with everything pretty much becoming PCs.



gronk-bonk said:
leatherhat said:
gronk-bonk said:
leatherhat said:
Otakumegane said:
I seriously cannot understand why people think Ninty will be reduced to 3rd party.

They have cash to survive and the 3DS looking to rake in $$ for the next couple years.


3ds sales are very poor compared to ds. And the handheld market will continue to be eaten alive by phones/tablets. And nintendo can not stand alone as a home console maker. 

So what? Nintendo is making money on the software and im pretty sure the 3ds is sold at a profit now. As long as ninty is making profit they should be fine

For now. Betting your future on a dying (quickly) market is not a great idea. 


i don't get it. 3DS is selling well. 


Not it isn't. Not compared to ds. And the handheld market is only going to continue to shrink. Its already so small it can't support two platforms like it did last gen (psp and ds). 



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

osed125 said:
DanneSandin said:
While I don't agree that Nintendo will go 3rd party any time soon (gen 10 at the earliest), I do agree that games need DIFFERENT price ranges. Don't release ALL games at $60! Nintendo is making one thing right with the eShop; they're allowing the publishers to set their own prices!

Just for curiosity, what makes you think Nintendo will "go down" specifically at gen 10?

They got enough money to sustain themselves this gen and next gen; but if Wii U fails, their next gen home console AND their next hand held don't take off I think they might be in serious trouble! But I think (well, I hope) that they learn from their mistakes (launching 3DS without SW obviously didn't teach them anything), listen to what developers wants and come back swinging for gen 9!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

NintendoPie said:
DanneSandin said:
NintendoPie said:

Since that other thread was locked, here are my opinions from it:
"It's funny that no one remembers Nintendo saying that they don't want to become a SW only company. I also feel that if anyone were to go down, Nintendo would be the last. They wouldn't go down easily, either. They would be kickin'!"

I always seem to post in the threads bound to be locked for duplication. (Is that a word?)

People keep on saying that... Is there a link anywhere?!

Link to what? The locked thread?

Here: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=155966&page=1#

No, I wanted a link to that statement from Nintendo. When did they say they wouldn't do SW only?



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.