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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U GPU new info and more speculation

ninjablade on 12 February 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

i think some should run tests on trine 2 with an HD 5550 with the same specifactions as wii u, if it runs much better we can rule out 320 SP  for sure.

Good luck finding "an H5550 with the same specifications as the Wii U." How do you plan on finding an off-the-shelf GPU with the same specifications as a highly customized and to date not fully understood GPU?


the only thinkg we need to understand 160 p vs 320 sp, this  is the most important thing at the moment if we can compare 16:320:8 part @ 550 mHz. GPU, if it runs trine 2 much better then imo that would confirm its not 320 sp.



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curl-6 on 12 February 2013
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

i think some should run tests on trine 2 with an HD 5550 with the same specifactions as wii u, if it runs much better we can rule out 320 SP  for sure.

Good luck finding "an H5550 with the same specifications as the Wii U." How do you plan on finding an off-the-shelf GPU with the same specifications as a highly customized and to date not fully understood GPU?


the only thinkg we need to understand 160 p vs 320 sp, this  is the most important thing at the moment if we can compare 16:320:8 part @ 550 mHz. GPU, if it runs trine 2 much better then imo that would confirm its not 320 sp.

There's more than just clockspeed to determine a chip's performance, there's also things like its relationship with other components like memory, and its architecture.



ninjablade on 12 February 2013
RazorDragon said:
ninjablade said:
RazorDragon said:
ninjablade said:
Cheebee said:
betacon said:
Cheebee said:

What is it with all the WiiU specs threads and PS3 fans coming in and flooding the threads with posts downplaying WiiU. Can't they go play their PS3s or post in some God of War of Last of Us-thread or something..? :s
Everybody and their grandma knows by now that you guys don't like WiiU and will probably never get one. We don't care. Get over it. -Nobody- is saying WiiU is an insane powerhouse, or that PS4/X720 won't be more powerful. Obviously. Get over yourselves. PS4/X720 will be -severely- underpowered compared to PCs as well.

Gosh, I don't see any PC fans going around flooding PS360 threads with countless posts of how sad those consoles' specs are, or having sigs touting the inferiority of said consoles compared to their obviously superior PCs.

 Bit sensitive, this if a internet forum for gaming discussion I fail to see what’s wrong with speculating the spec of a system a company has refused to show.

 

Nothing wrong with that. But there's a difference between what you're suggesting and what's happening on here. It's overkill.

neogaf and beyond3d are thinking it's 160 SP now and DF will run an article about Wii U being 160 sp or not.

Actually, during this time i did a little of research and found out a few things about the 160SPs theory.

 

First, let's say these 30% of unknown space in the GPU doesn't exist. Now, from my calculations, 30% of 156.21mm^2(Wii U total GPU die size) gives us 46.83mm^2, which is the size of the unknown space in Wii U's GPU based on the information we have. Combining this number with the size of the eDram module, which measures is 38.68mm^2, we get 70.81mm^2 free space for the actual GPU on the die.

 

Now, let's get a 160SPs Radeon GPU for die size comparisons. Radeon HD 6450 which has 160SPs,core clock of 750MHz and, ironically, is manufactured at TSMC's 40nm process, has a die size of 67mm^2, which fits inside the 70.81mm^2 on the Wii U. So, if we completely rule out the unknown space on the GPU, then, yes, we probably have a 160SPs Radeon HD 6450 downlocked on the Wii U. Actually, this GPU is quite a match with the Wii U, as it's TDP is only of 18W at 750MHz, which could be easily reduced by downclocking the GPU. And, based on the research i've done, only Radeon HD 69xx cards have the Double Precision extensions, so if Wii U's GPU is the HD 6450 we could rule out any possible way to increase SP density on the SIMD blocks from removing the DP extensions. However, there are still possibilities to increase SP density on SIMD blocks besides removing the DPs, so i can't confirm the GPU being a 160SP one nor a HD 6450 because there are still multiple factors that could change SP count similar die sizes.

intersting post, so your leaning towards it being 160 SP as well?, according to the post above yours, only a idiot and a fanboy f would even be even condering it. i think some should run tests on trine 2 with an amd HD 5550 with the same specifactions as wii u, if it runs much better we can rule out 320 SP  for sure.

Maybe. I mean, like i said, ignoring the 30% that's still unknown inside the GPU, then, yes, it would probably be a 160SPs GPU and probably be based on a Caicos core, the same on the HD 6450, as it pretty much matches everything that has been said about the Wii U's GPU. However, these guys were wrong before believing the die could hold 480SPs, so while 160SPs may seem possible for now based on the informations available from them, it's not certain as not every part of the GPU was analyzed yet. If there were die shots of the HD 6450 to be compared, it would be easier to see if something in it matches or not with Latte, as this card, i believe, is the only available with 160SPs from AMD.

 


yea that would make sense, it would probably have some advantages to current gen gpu's, giving that's a newer part with more customized features.



ninjablade on 12 February 2013
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

i think some should run tests on trine 2 with an HD 5550 with the same specifactions as wii u, if it runs much better we can rule out 320 SP  for sure.

Good luck finding "an H5550 with the same specifications as the Wii U." How do you plan on finding an off-the-shelf GPU with the same specifications as a highly customized and to date not fully understood GPU?


the only thinkg we need to understand 160 p vs 320 sp, this  is the most important thing at the moment if we can compare 16:320:8 part @ 550 mHz. GPU, if it runs trine 2 much better then imo that would confirm its not 320 sp.

There's more than just clockspeed to determine a chip's performance, there's also things like its relationship with other components like memory, and its architecture.

yes i understsand that but trine 2 looks like a game thats mostly relies on gpu and ram,and i don't think the speed of the ram or cpu will affect anything on a 2d game like trine 2.



curl-6 on 12 February 2013
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

i think some should run tests on trine 2 with an HD 5550 with the same specifactions as wii u, if it runs much better we can rule out 320 SP  for sure.

Good luck finding "an H5550 with the same specifications as the Wii U." How do you plan on finding an off-the-shelf GPU with the same specifications as a highly customized and to date not fully understood GPU?


the only thinkg we need to understand 160 p vs 320 sp, this  is the most important thing at the moment if we can compare 16:320:8 part @ 550 mHz. GPU, if it runs trine 2 much better then imo that would confirm its not 320 sp.

There's more than just clockspeed to determine a chip's performance, there's also things like its relationship with other components like memory, and its architecture.

yes i understsand that but trine 2 looks like a game thats mostly relies on gpu and ram,and i don't think the speed of the ram or cpu will affect anything on a 2d game like trine 2.

CPU won't make a big difference, true, but there's still more to a GPU's capabilities than its clock speed and SP count.



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dahuman on 12 February 2013
Cheebee said:

What is it with all the WiiU specs threads and PS3 fans coming in and flooding the threads with posts downplaying WiiU. Can't they go play their PS3s or post in some God of War of Last of Us-thread or something..? :s
Everybody and their grandma knows by now that you guys don't like WiiU and will probably never get one. We don't care. Get over it. -Nobody- is saying WiiU is an insane powerhouse, or that PS4/X720 won't be more powerful. Obviously. Get over yourselves. PS4/X720 will be -severely- underpowered compared to PCs as well.

Gosh, I don't see any PC fans going around flooding PS360 threads with countless posts of how sad those consoles' specs are, or having sigs touting the inferiority of said consoles compared to their obviously superior PCs.


That's because PC people know console are weak as hell and there is no reason to point out the obvious. :P Wii, weak, 360, weak, PS3, weak, Wii U, weak, PS4, weak, Nextbox, weak, they are all weak, but that didn't stop me from regconizing that Xenoblade is the best JRPG in the 7th gen, that SMG2 is the best game of the 7th gen still, that Halo and Gears are fun, and that Naughty Dog has done amazing jobs on the PS3, for as long as people understand that multiplats all suck a big one compared to Teh Master Race then we are cool. :P



ninjablade on 13 February 2013
dahuman said:
Cheebee said:

What is it with all the WiiU specs threads and PS3 fans coming in and flooding the threads with posts downplaying WiiU. Can't they go play their PS3s or post in some God of War of Last of Us-thread or something..? :s
Everybody and their grandma knows by now that you guys don't like WiiU and will probably never get one. We don't care. Get over it. -Nobody- is saying WiiU is an insane powerhouse, or that PS4/X720 won't be more powerful. Obviously. Get over yourselves. PS4/X720 will be -severely- underpowered compared to PCs as well.

Gosh, I don't see any PC fans going around flooding PS360 threads with countless posts of how sad those consoles' specs are, or having sigs touting the inferiority of said consoles compared to their obviously superior PCs.


That's because PC people know console are weak as hell and there is no reason to point out the obvious. :P Wii, weak, 360, weak, PS3, weak, Wii U, weak, PS4, weak, Nextbox, weak, they are all weak, but that didn't stop me from regconizing that Xenoblade is the best JRPG in the 7th gen, that SMG2 is the best game of the 7th gen still, that Halo and Gears are fun, and that Naughty Dog has done amazing jobs on the PS3, for as long as people understand that multiplats all suck a big one compared to Teh Master Race and we are cool. :P

ps4 is not weak, name a graphic card that comes with 4gb GDDR5.



dahuman on 13 February 2013
ninjablade said:
timmah said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
fordy said:
ninjablade said:
fordy said:
ninjablade said:

you honestly think we don't have any infromation at all, we have 80% of the specs, at most it could a 1.5x current gen. 

You have SPECULATIVE information, just like you have for the PS4. In that essence, I could say the WiiU will be more powerful than PS4 and, given the amount of actual information out there, my quote could be just ad valid as yours. 


try to do your research my friend.


I'm not the one making the outright claims. You are. The one who should be ding said research before spouting ridiculous statements is you. 

Tell me, what factors brought you to the somehow absolute conclusion that the WiiU is on par with current gen? Oh, because of the looks? Surely it's not just the looks. Nobody would be that stupid to base a claim just on looks.

its on par from everything i read so far, it could be a bit better but its still current gen. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed and many people are still debating that the gpu can be 50% weaker.

50% less isn't a realistic possibility I'd say; if it was, it wouldn't being doing a superior Trine 2 (a GPU focussed game) when the studio has prior experience with 360 but not with Wii U. And it wouldn't be able to duplicate something like Assassin's Creed 3 while also running an unmirrored second screen. 360 ports would see more shader cutbacks. Even in their lazily ported state, the current ports don't demonstrate many GPU-related cutbacks, just CPU-related ones.


well i think trine 2 being superior came from the ram, please don't tell me that you think trine 2 maxed out the ps3/360 gpu's and also 

quote from wissple

The kits the first demos were running on reportedly had the GPU clocked at 400MHz. Therefore, both the Zelda and the Japanese Garden demo were running on a 128GFLOPS GPU - if the system really only has 160 ALUs.

The Trine 2 developer was able to pull off GPU effects not possible on the older HD consoles while maintaining a higher resolution, good framerate, and much sharper overall look, this would not be possible on a weaker GPU (Trine 2 is a GPU heavy game with a lot of advanced effects, especially in the directors cut levels)....aaaaaand those tech demos looked really amazing. Assuming your way too low estimate of that dev kit, if Nintendo able to pull that off on a 128GFLOPS GPU, imagine what they could do on a on a customized 353GFLOPS GPU... so what's your point again?

my point is many people at beyond3d are speculating it's 160 SP.


Do you understand just how shitty the 360 and PS3 would be if that's true? I can't even begin to think that machines touting 240GFLOPS and 400GFLOPS would get their asses handed to by a machine that does fucking 176GFLOPS without some secret sauce, and whatever that secret sauce might be, it's gotta be some fucking insane one, unless the 360 and PS3 are just "that" inefficient to the point where it was worse than I ever thought possible.



dahuman on 13 February 2013
ninjablade said:
dahuman said:
Cheebee said:

What is it with all the WiiU specs threads and PS3 fans coming in and flooding the threads with posts downplaying WiiU. Can't they go play their PS3s or post in some God of War of Last of Us-thread or something..? :s
Everybody and their grandma knows by now that you guys don't like WiiU and will probably never get one. We don't care. Get over it. -Nobody- is saying WiiU is an insane powerhouse, or that PS4/X720 won't be more powerful. Obviously. Get over yourselves. PS4/X720 will be -severely- underpowered compared to PCs as well.

Gosh, I don't see any PC fans going around flooding PS360 threads with countless posts of how sad those consoles' specs are, or having sigs touting the inferiority of said consoles compared to their obviously superior PCs.


That's because PC people know console are weak as hell and there is no reason to point out the obvious. :P Wii, weak, 360, weak, PS3, weak, Wii U, weak, PS4, weak, Nextbox, weak, they are all weak, but that didn't stop me from regconizing that Xenoblade is the best JRPG in the 7th gen, that SMG2 is the best game of the 7th gen still, that Halo and Gears are fun, and that Naughty Dog has done amazing jobs on the PS3, for as long as people understand that multiplats all suck a big one compared to Teh Master Race and we are cool. :P

ps4 is not weak, name a graphic card that comes with 4gb GDDR5.


It's shared system memory, also, STFU if you don't know what you are talking about:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007709+600007787+600007797&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=48&description=&hisInDesc=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=



ninjablade on 13 February 2013
dahuman said:
ninjablade said:
timmah said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
fordy said:
ninjablade said:
fordy said:
ninjablade said:

you honestly think we don't have any infromation at all, we have 80% of the specs, at most it could a 1.5x current gen. 

You have SPECULATIVE information, just like you have for the PS4. In that essence, I could say the WiiU will be more powerful than PS4 and, given the amount of actual information out there, my quote could be just ad valid as yours. 


try to do your research my friend.


I'm not the one making the outright claims. You are. The one who should be ding said research before spouting ridiculous statements is you. 

Tell me, what factors brought you to the somehow absolute conclusion that the WiiU is on par with current gen? Oh, because of the looks? Surely it's not just the looks. Nobody would be that stupid to base a claim just on looks.

its on par from everything i read so far, it could be a bit better but its still current gen. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed and many people are still debating that the gpu can be 50% weaker.

50% less isn't a realistic possibility I'd say; if it was, it wouldn't being doing a superior Trine 2 (a GPU focussed game) when the studio has prior experience with 360 but not with Wii U. And it wouldn't be able to duplicate something like Assassin's Creed 3 while also running an unmirrored second screen. 360 ports would see more shader cutbacks. Even in their lazily ported state, the current ports don't demonstrate many GPU-related cutbacks, just CPU-related ones.


well i think trine 2 being superior came from the ram, please don't tell me that you think trine 2 maxed out the ps3/360 gpu's and also 

quote from wissple

The kits the first demos were running on reportedly had the GPU clocked at 400MHz. Therefore, both the Zelda and the Japanese Garden demo were running on a 128GFLOPS GPU - if the system really only has 160 ALUs.

The Trine 2 developer was able to pull off GPU effects not possible on the older HD consoles while maintaining a higher resolution, good framerate, and much sharper overall look, this would not be possible on a weaker GPU (Trine 2 is a GPU heavy game with a lot of advanced effects, especially in the directors cut levels)....aaaaaand those tech demos looked really amazing. Assuming your way too low estimate of that dev kit, if Nintendo able to pull that off on a 128GFLOPS GPU, imagine what they could do on a on a customized 353GFLOPS GPU... so what's your point again?

my point is many people at beyond3d are speculating it's 160 SP.


Do you understand just how shitty the 360 and PS3 would be if that's true? I can't even begin to think that machines touting 240GFLOPS and 400GFLOPS would get their asses handed to by a machine that does fucking 176GFLOPS without some secret sauce, and whatever that secret sauce might be, it's gotta be some fucking insane one, unless the 360 and PS3 are just "that" inefficient to the point where it was worse than I ever thought possible.


ps3 is 200 gflops but very cpu heavy

360 240 gflps

wii 176 based on new tech

intel HD 4000 is 240 gflops yet its more powerful then 360/ps3