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Forums - General - Why Create the Universe?

Roma said:
knowing the answer to this dose not prov if God exists nor does it prove that God does not.

but this doesn't mean it's a bad question

maybe he want's to prove something to the angels or the devil that out of people who can chose how they want to live life there will be those who against all odds still remain faithful to him. we can't possible think the way God thinks so we can't possible know why unless he has told us


That wasn't my intention either. I am simply asking for the reasoning behind creating a universe when the entire process and result is already known by the creator. We discussed this fairly recently: Why would God let the people go through pain and suffering instead of just skipping the painful part and send the eventual heaven and hell residents to their eventual destination immediately? The suffering doesn't need to be there, which is something that an almighty god should be aware of.

Also: God wouldn't need to convince the angels or Satan about anything. If he wants them to understand something, he doesn't even need to snap his fingers to make that happen.

 

If God doesn't make sense to us then he simply doesn't. And I find it absurd to require that your creations believe in an absurdity.



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God is all powerful, So can he take away his own power and make it impossible to ever regain?



Atto Suggests...:

Book - Malazan Book of the Fallen series 

Game - Metro Last Light

TV - Deadwood

Music - Forest Swords 

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Roma said:
knowing the answer to this dose not prov if God exists nor does it prove that God does not.

but this doesn't mean it's a bad question

maybe he want's to prove something to the angels or the devil that out of people who can chose how they want to live life there will be those who against all odds still remain faithful to him. we can't possible think the way God thinks so we can't possible know why unless he has told us


That wasn't my intentions either. I am simply asking for the reasoning behind creating a universe when the entire process and result is already known by the creator. We discussed this fairly recently: Why would God let the people go through pain and suffering instead of just skipping the painful part and send the eventual heaven and hell residents to their eventual destination immediately? The suffering doesn't need to be there, which is something that an almighty god should be aware of.

Also: God wouldn't need to convince the angels or Satan about anything. If he wants them to understand something, he doesn't even need to snap his fingers to make that happen.

 

If God doesn't make sense to us then he simply doesn't. And I find it absurd to require that your creations believe in an absurdity.

well that's like spoiling a movies end

I want to watch the movie and find out what the end will be myself not having a thought in my head of how I lived life and what I did to deserve hell or heaven. If he told you how you lived your life without letting you live it you will have the thought that what if you could change right? especially if you ended up in hell

God doesn't need to do anything but he chooses to do so. as for why he created us I don't have an answer but I would like to find out as well. I sometimes create monster because I like to create them and look at them, animate them and so on. we will find out sooner or later because we are all going to die eventually. not sure if those who go to hell will though



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Roma said:
knowing the answer to this dose not prov if God exists nor does it prove that God does not.

but this doesn't mean it's a bad question

maybe he want's to prove something to the angels or the devil that out of people who can chose how they want to live life there will be those who against all odds still remain faithful to him. we can't possible think the way God thinks so we can't possible know why unless he has told us


That wasn't my intention either. I am simply asking for the reasoning behind creating a universe when the entire process and result is already known by the creator. We discussed this fairly recently: Why would God let the people go through pain and suffering instead of just skipping the painful part and send the eventual heaven and hell residents to their eventual destination immediately? The suffering doesn't need to be there, which is something that an almighty god should be aware of.

Also: God wouldn't need to convince the angels or Satan about anything. If he wants them to understand something, he doesn't even need to snap his fingers to make that happen.

 

If God doesn't make sense to us then he simply doesn't. And I find it absurd to require that your creations believe in an absurdity.


You can't skip the suffering.  There is no good if there is no bad.  There cannot be a hero if there is no villian.

If everything in life was perfect, everyone had a large home, everyone made a million dollars a year, disease and rainy days did not exist, then no one would appreciate any of it.  Just as there would not be any sorrow or hard times, there would be no joy or appreciation, just a muted dull existance.

Our favorite stories are those where there is a big crisis, things look as bleak as they can get, but then people or the hero are able to defeat the crisis or villian.  If we watched a movie of people who woke up to sunny days and ate crumpets and drank tea every day and played video games and strolled on the beach every morning and night, we would be highly bored and have no appreciation for it.

I will not argue that the extremes of suffering are necessary.  But a life without risk, is a life without reward.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

Hawk said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

 


You can't skip the suffering.  There is no good if there is no bad.  There cannot be a hero if there is no villian.

If everything in life was perfect, everyone had a large home, everyone made a million dollars a year, disease and rainy days did not exist, then no one would appreciate any of it.  Just as there would not be any sorrow or hard times, there would be no joy or appreciation, just a muted dull existance.

Our favorite stories are those where there is a big crisis, things look as bleak as they can get, but then people or the hero are able to defeat the crisis or villian.  If we watched a movie of people who woke up to sunny days and ate crumpets and drank tea every day and played video games and strolled on the beach every morning and night, we would be highly bored and have no appreciation for it.

I will not argue that the extremes of suffering are necessary.  But a life without risk, is a life without reward.


Then how are we supposed to enjoy heaven if we get there? Or is there pain and suffering in there as well?



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IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Then how are we supposed to enjoy heaven if we get there? Or is there pain and suffering in there as well?


I suppose you could look at it that to fully appreciate Heaven, we first must experience the hell of mortal life.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

Hawk said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Then how are we supposed to enjoy heaven if we get there? Or is there pain and suffering in there as well?


I suppose you could look at it that to fully appreciate Heaven, we first must experience the hell of mortal life.


Well, I still don't see why God wouldn't just put us all in heaven immediately and make us appreciate it using his almighty powers. Suffering is an unnecessary invention by God (which is one of many reasons why I don't believe in him.)

Furthermore, I don't see why he would create us in the first place. Not only is there nothing to be gained, but an almighty being shouldn't be able to gain anything since they already have everything.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Hawk said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Then how are we supposed to enjoy heaven if we get there? Or is there pain and suffering in there as well?


I suppose you could look at it that to fully appreciate Heaven, we first must experience the hell of mortal life.


Well, I still don't see why God wouldn't just put us all in heaven immediately and make us appreciate it using his almighty powers. Suffering is an unnecessary invention by God (which is one of many reasons why I don't believe in him.)

Furthermore, I don't see why he would create us in the first place. Not only is there nothing to be gained, but an almighty being shouldn't be able to gain anything since hey already have everything.

What do you do in a game once you've collected everything you possibly can and achieved the highest possible level.  You start over, because working to obtain it all is more enjoyable that having it all.  Or as in Call of Duty, you prestige   ;).

I believe in a higher power myself, but not in the traditional way.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

You are still making so many assumptions. Stop assuming God is like us. God is beyond our understanding.

You ask why God doesn't just skip to the end. Who ever said that God made plans for everything? God made plans, but between those plans is free will. That's why God has intervened on occasionally and has said more intervention will come.

You assume that God created the universe from beginning to end just to reach the finish line. The idea of existence to serve an ultimate goal isn't flawed, but why can't that goal be the middle part?



kain_kusanagi said:
You are still making so many assumptions. Stop assuming God is like us. God is beyond our understanding.

You ask why God doesn't just skip to the end. Who ever said that God made plans for everything? God made plans, but between those plans is free will. That's why God has intervened on occasionally and has said more intervention will come.

You assume that God created the universe from beginning to end just to reach the finish line. The idea of existence to serve an ultimate goal isn't flawed, but why can't that goal be the middle part?


If he is beyond our understanding, why do you assume that he has an ultimate goal with our existence? Why do you assume that god gave us free will and didn't put us in a deterministic universe? Why do you assume that God truly is almighty and isn't merely limited to being able to create our universe? Why do you assume that God is good, and not evil? Why do you assume that God's interventions with humanity were not evil all along? Why do you assume that God didn't create us to reach the finish line, when reality might be that he did but isn't able to?

You make a lot of assumtions, as well as I, and they are necessary for these discussions. The difference is that you believe in yours (because you are a Christian, right?) while I am being theoretical.