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Forums - Gaming - Wii U graphics power finally revealed - "we can now finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U"

curl-6 on 07 February 2013
Mazty said:
curl-6 said:
Mazty said:

Actually it does. The best way to explain this is to think about games. If I released a game with 2D graphics, no one would call it next-gen. Yet if I released one that used UE4 to it's greatest extent, it would be called next-gen. The difference is purely power. Claiming a console has to merely be a successor is logically flawed as every console has to start without a successor. 

Unless Nintendo are using tech that has never been seen anywhere and is decades ahead of known technology, you can work out that 70W is not going to give you performance that massively dwarfs either the PS3 or Xbox 360. 

When a console launches without a successor it's in the same gen as its contemporaries. Power is coincidental. (Or with the Wii and 3DS, not) Anyway, if you want to discuss it, here's the thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=154418&page=1

(That's mah thread =D )

As I stated, everything else is looked at in terms of power. Look at games. Look at even fighter jets:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth-generation_jet_fighter

" Fifth-generation aircraft are designed to incorporate numerous technological advances over the fourth generation jet fighter"

Next-gen games are considered to offer many improvements over previous gen games. Why this rule is suddenly scrapped for the consoles makes no sense. Plus the article in the OP of this thread seems to believe that power and gen are linked, as well as the head of EA. 

Well, when a definition no longer fits all, then it's not a definition anymore. But that's all I'll say here as there's a thread for that.



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BlueFalcon on 07 February 2013
oni-link said:

I doubt I will see much of a diffrence if any between the Wii U or  PS4/720.  

Can you tell the difference between Xbox 360 and PC in this video at 1080P?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a3eilZRlyk

Next generation consoles will surpass the graphics of Crysis 3 at some point. If Wii U's power is just 50-100% more than PS360, it will never even approach the graphics of Crysis 3 on the PC today.



curl-6 on 07 February 2013
BlueFalcon said:
curl-6 said:
Yeah, I remember that one,about the PS2 being ten times the power of the Dreamcast. No PS2 game ever went on to look 10 times better than the likes of Soul Calibur or Shenmue 1 & 2.

That's not how graphics work. To have graphics 10x more impressive, you probably need hardware 500x more powerful.

As graphics are reaching closer and closer to realism, the differences between generations will shrink and the demands for hardware to improve will grow more, not less because each additional effect that makes graphics look more realistic costs more GPU power, not less. It won't ever be the same as going from 2D mario to 3D super mario. Not sure what people are expecting exactly. Their expectations are completely out of touch with reality regarding PS4/720 vs. PS3/360.

To go from this:

 

To this:

Requires 83x more GPU power.

Most console gamers might say the 2nd image looks what 3x better, maybe?

Reality: the 2nd image is 571x more complex (4 million triangles vs. 7000 triangles).

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/31/new_dawn_dx11_demo_compared_to_old#.URNJn6VZUeo

I think most gamers just don't understand how graphics works at all. They think going from PS3 to PS4 should be like going from PS2 to PS3. That's illogical.

That's kinda the point; PS4 and Durango might (key word) have x10 the FLOPS of Wii U, but that doesn't necessarily mean we will see games that look 10 times better.

(And just for the record, the x10 Dreamcast thing did turn out to be nonsense; it FLOPS PS2 was only 4.4 times stronger)



Stefan.De.Machtige on 07 February 2013
BlueFalcon said:
curl-6 said:
Yeah, I remember that one,about the PS2 being ten times the power of the Dreamcast. No PS2 game ever went on to look 10 times better than the likes of Soul Calibur or Shenmue 1 & 2.

That's not how graphics work. To have graphics 10x more impressive, you probably need hardware 500x more powerful.

As graphics are reaching closer and closer to realism, the differences between generations will shrink and the demands for hardware to improve will grow more, not less because each additional effect that makes graphics look more realistic costs more GPU power, not less. It won't ever be the same as going from 2D mario to 3D super mario. Not sure what people are expecting exactly. Their expectations are completely out of touch with reality regarding PS4/720 vs. PS3/360.

To go from this:

 

To this:

Requires 83x more GPU power.

Most console gamers might say the 2nd image looks what 3x better, maybe?

Reality: the 2nd image is 571x more complex (4 million triangles vs. 7000 triangles).

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/31/new_dawn_dx11_demo_compared_to_old#.URNJn6VZUeo

I think most gamers just don't understand how graphics works at all. They think going from PS3 to PS4 should be like going from PS2 to PS3. That's illogical.

Good point.

You can also look at GTA5 as an example. How many mainstream consumers would see a real difference between a texture increase of 5 to 30 times? Not many. And even fewer would buy a new console just for that.

This current generation has to be about idea's instead of graphics.





In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

BlueFalcon on 07 February 2013
curl-6 said:

Well, when a definition no longer fits all, then it's not a definition anymore. But that's all I'll say here as there's a thread for that.

Did you enjoy games like Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 on the Wii, Goldeneye, Banjo-Kazooie, Conquer's Bad Fur Day, 1080* Snowboarding, Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time on N64, etc.? If yes, then you'll enjoy even better looking 1st party Nintendo games on the Wii U. From that point of view, the Wii U is a next generation Nintendo console.

But if you also want to play next generation 3rd party games in their glory, the Wii U is definitely not a next generation console since not only will most of them skip the Wii U, but they won't ever look as good as PS4/720's versions. That makes the Wii U a great console long-term if you only care about 1st party Nintendo games but likely a poor choice if you want to play other games -- essentially a repeat of the Wii in that regard.



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ninjablade on 07 February 2013
Mazty said:
ninjablade said:

lol the console is locked at 30w, read the digital foundy article, the power brick is 70w, console alway at most only use haf of the power brick. the console it self will not go over 30w.

That's not in the article....If you are talking about another, link please :)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console



curl-6 on 07 February 2013
BlueFalcon said:
curl-6 said:

Well, when a definition no longer fits all, then it's not a definition anymore. But that's all I'll say here as there's a thread for that.

Did you enjoy games like Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 on the Wii, Goldeneye, Banjo-Kazooie, Conquer's Bad Fur Day, 1080* Snowboarding, Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time on N64, etc.? If yes, then you'll enjoy even better looking 1st party Nintendo games on the Wii U. From that point of view, the Wii U is a next generation Nintendo console.

But if you also want to play next generation 3rd party games in their glory, the Wii U is definitely not a next generation console since not only will most of them skip the Wii U, but they won't ever look as good as PS4/720's versions. That makes the Wii U a great console long-term if you only care about 1st party Nintendo games but likely a poor choice if you want to play other games -- essentially a repeat of the Wii in that regard.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=154418&page=1

I will say, though, that I enjoyed quite a few non-Nintendo games on the Wii: Monster Hunter Tri, Goldeneye 007, Rayman Origins, Okami, Resident Evil 4, Red Steel 2, No More Heroes 1 & 2...



BlueFalcon on 07 February 2013
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
This current generation has to be about idea's instead of graphics.

Agreed. I have $800 of HD7970s in my PC and some of my favourite games in the last couple years have been indie titles like Mark of the Ninja, Braid, Limbo, not Crysis 2. 

If next generation is more of focus on graphics, QTE, cinematics, shorter SP campaigns, dumbed down AI that makes games easier for everyone and less focus on gameplay -- do not want.

I have plenty of options to replay good games of the past :)

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2883/segagenesiscollection.jpg



ninjablade on 07 February 2013
zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
Aielyn said:
ninjablade said:

no they said they did there own anlaysis they got the gpu pic from neogaf but not there analysis.

OK, then, let's use the article, because even from the article, you're wrong.

"Chipworks' shot is still being analysed"

"The answer comes from a mixture of known and unknown variables."

"The obvious suspect would be the Wii U's 1.2GHz CPU, a tri-core piece of hardware re-architected from the Wii's Broadway chip" - NOT a tri-core version of Broadway, but hardware that was re-architected from Broadway.

"However, there still plenty of unknowns to factor in too"

"... and effectively we have something approaching a full spec"

Even DF don't make the claim that it's cold hard facts.

And the fact that they had to update the die photo image because they had only marked half of the shader units says to me that they didn't do the analysis themselves... at least, the author didn't. And all of the information in the article, except for that exceptional and unsubstantiated claim right at the end, is information available from that NeoGAF thread - while there was an initial mistake regarding 20 vs 40 ALUs (I think that's what they referred to them as) that Beyond3D corrected NeoGAF about, NeoGAF has made more progress than Beyond3D on actually analysing it.


no t true at all thrakter was coming out with a wild hypothesis of 470 gflops, and beyond3d memeber came and corrected him there is not one single fact neogaf came up with just assumptions so far and not even good ones.

What! O_O , Wasnt you saying how much of a trusted site it was awhile ago? or was that only when they where agreeing with you?

I did trust them but then i found beyond3d, the only person that really came with something conclusive is AlStrong a mod at beyond3d, which is where neogaf got there numers from for the wiiu gflops, at first neogaf though it was 160 sp instead of 320sp.

Funny cos at the start i remember you saying "Beyond3D and Neogaf are the 2 most trusted sites when it comes to tech" so clearly you knew of both sites first. But then you only liked Neogaf back then when a lot of people on the site was agreeing with what you where saying, and now alot of them are not once they got the GPU pic so Neogaf can no longer be trusted in your eyes.

You pretty much have just confirmed what i said, anything that agrees with what you say is the truth and can be trusted but if they dont they cant.


neogaf can be trusted, but you have to tons of reading to get to the good posts, but there is too much fanboy specualtion on that board, beyond3d is much easier, and fanboy specualtion is not allowed. basically you have many people on neogaf who have no idea what there talking about when it comes to tech, for instant thraketer, all his specualtion is just wishful thanking.



Mazty on 07 February 2013
ninjablade said:
Mazty said:
ninjablade said:

lol the console is locked at 30w, read the digital foundy article, the power brick is 70w, console alway at most only use haf of the power brick. the console it self will not go over 30w.

That's not in the article....If you are talking about another, link please :)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-wii-u-is-the-green-console

Thanks for that - interesting article. If it's only using 32W then yeah, I can't imagine it getting even close to what the PS4/next-box will do. If the next-gen is aiming for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmaotBON9NM

Then the Wii U will most likely be left in the dust. The aboves graphics are good enough to make even casual gamers go "wow".