PS3 is already facing off (and winning) against WiiU.    PS4 must counter 720 - and upstarts like Ouya/SteamBox.  But more power isn't the answer, better value is or some strong hook like Wii and Kinect had or at least getting out first.     Their new controller looks promising but after WiiU's launch (and Ouya) will just be new accepted form.  Doubtless MS new controller will also have some touchpad or such (be surprised if it doesn't).  

It looks like MS will out-innovate, out price and be to market first (europe).  None of that bodes well for PS4.

This again?  Nintendo is great and Sony is great in different ways with first party stuff but Sony deserves way more respect when it comes to first party.  Sony makes new IPs and invests in game MS wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole (Sly cooper, Journey, Rain, Heavy Rain, Beyond, Flower, Unfinished Swan, etc.).  I mean Uncharted, Infamous, LBP, Resistance, Heavenly Sword were all created this gen.  If they had bought out Crash and done a Mario strategy with it (one big release every gen) it would be huge like Mario by now most likely (it was during PSone) but they take a different strategy of moving on and only keeping a couple franchises each gen (GT is the only one that they've kept from PSone that I can think of and it sells 10 million now so this proves my point).  Nintendo is awesome cause they polish their franchises for 25 years till they're a mirror sheen and keep platformers and old-school adventure going.  Sony is awesome cause they make new innovative IPs and push storytelling and have the best variety in the industry.  They are both awesome and Sony has sold an awful lot of PS3s on first party franchises and free online (since they've been most expensive the whole gen so 3rd party buyers go MS).

That's not exactly what I meant.  I'm saying that Europe would probably be delayed regardless, it's just a matter of whether they move back the US and Japanese dates to match it.

Japan is easy.  It's one country and small besides.  The US is easy, too, despite being big.  It's still just one country with one set of red tape to cut.  Once it gets to a distribution center, you just put it on trucks and ship it out.  Europe is several different countries, each with their own customs process and legalities to navigate.  The logistics are much more complicated.  I was just kidding about not being sympathetic but I do think it's understandable.

Well, PS2 were beating both of the 360 and PS3 (and possibly Wii?) in the beginning, and that didn't really matter anything for the out come of the gen... But I agree that value is what sell systems; Wii had great value, and Kinect had it as well, and it remains to see which console will have the greatest value this coming gen...

But yeah, I have a feeling that MS might take home this gen...

Oh, they had superior 3rd party support. That ALWAYS wins! Well, until Wii came around...

True and getting off topic here - I fear Nintendo has massively miscalculated  with WiiU.   They got away with the underpowered DS and Wii because they brought other new innovations to gameplay - more than mere power increase alone could bring.   The gamepad fails in this respect, leaving WiiU as nothing more than an HDWii without Wii's appeal (no motion controls in most games) and no games.   It will dwindle and die out with 360 and PS3, kept on life-support by periodic Nintendo classics.