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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Legend of Zelda Thread: Echoes of Wisdom Sells 2.58 Million Units

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Are you planning to buy Echoes of Wisdom?

I already pre-ordered 7 46.67%
 
Picking it up soon 4 26.67%
 
Waiting for a sale 2 13.33%
 
No, it's not for me 2 13.33%
 
Total:15
Veknoid_Outcast on 06 October 2013
cyberninja45 said:

I will try to repond to you and irstupid in this post since you both seem to have the same idea.

Yes attaboy also brings some very valid reasons why MM did not sell well again. But I think you and irstupid are trying to downplay OOT popularity at the time to bolster WW image.

If as you say OOT was not much of a system seller at the time or not an anticipated game. Well I have a guiness world record book 2000's edition that list OOT as having the record for the most advanced orders at the time. Think about it, at a time when gaming was not as "mainstream" at the time without the popularity of the internet and what not OOT broke pre order records. If you were to put OOT into a Modern day perspective, comapring  the amount of gamers back then to the amount now, OOT would be at the level of GTA V or a  COD or whatever.

I will explain why this is significant . Gaming was for most intent and purposes a "niche" hobby back then once you was a "gamer" you would have followed gaming news no matter where it came from, so by extension you followed all your favourite gaming franchises with a lot more passion back then (I knew that Super Mario World 2 was not the same as SMW and was probably less than 10 years at the time). And as I just showed with OOT holding the largest pre order record at the time it was one of the most anticipated game with a very loyal following, because as I said in an earlier post it also built a reputation over nes and snes as a solid game.

Now all that is to say that yes people knew what MM was and they knew it was not in the same vain as OOT. And also that a next gen zelda was one of the most anticipated titles at the time up until WW reveal

Whoa, whoa. I never said OOT wasn't a system seller or an anticipated game. The anticipation for Ocarina was huge. It was the first console Zelda in six years and the first in 3D. I remember reading about it in Nintendo Power when it was still called Zelda 64.

All I said is that the art direction of Wind Waker didn't make or break the Gamecube. A game like Twilight Princess, which I consider the spiritual sequel to Ocarina, wouldn't have boosted Gamecube sales much more than Wind Waker did in 2003. And it certainly wouldn't have pushed GCN above the PS2. 



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cyberninja45 on 06 October 2013
Veknoid_Outcast said:
cyberninja45 said:

I will try to repond to you and irstupid in this post since you both seem to have the same idea.

Yes attaboy also brings some very valid reasons why MM did not sell well again. But I think you and irstupid are trying to downplay OOT popularity at the time to bolster WW image.

If as you say OOT was not much of a system seller at the time or not an anticipated game. Well I have a guiness world record book 2000's edition that list OOT as having the record for the most advanced orders at the time. Think about it, at a time when gaming was not as "mainstream" at the time without the popularity of the internet and what not OOT broke pre order records. If you were to put OOT into a Modern day perspective, comapring  the amount of gamers back then to the amount now, OOT would be at the level of GTA V or a  COD or whatever.

I will explain why this is significant . Gaming was for most intent and purposes a "niche" hobby back then once you was a "gamer" you would have followed gaming news no matter where it came from, so by extension you followed all your favourite gaming franchises with a lot more passion back then (I knew that Super Mario World 2 was not the same as SMW and was probably less than 10 years at the time). And as I just showed with OOT holding the largest pre order record at the time it was one of the most anticipated game with a very loyal following, because as I said in an earlier post it also built a reputation over nes and snes as a solid game.

Now all that is to say that yes people knew what MM was and they knew it was not in the same vain as OOT. And also that a next gen zelda was one of the most anticipated titles at the time up until WW reveal

Whoa, whoa. I never said OOT wasn't a system seller or an anticipated game. The anticipation for Ocarina was huge. It was the first console Zelda in six years and the first in 3D. I remember reading about it in Nintendo Power when it was still called Zelda 64.

All I said is that the art direction of Wind Waker didn't make or break the Gamecube. A game like Twilight Princess, which I consider the spiritual sequel to Ocarina, wouldn't have boosted Gamecube sales much more than Wind Waker did in 2003. And it certainly wouldn't have pushed GCN above the PS2. 


It would have never pushed it passed the ps2 I never said it needed to actually I don't remember mentioning the ps2. But I still believe it was a big mistake on nintendo's part with the GC along with many other mistakes like launching with Luigi's Mansion instead of a follow up to SM64, Super Mario Sunshine is a mistake on its own, not having a proper follow up to Star Fox 64, , letting the talent at Rare leave then selling them off, basically they damaged most of their IPs at the time. Actually the whole GC era was one large mistake by nintendo as harsh as it may sound.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



Veknoid_Outcast on 06 October 2013
cyberninja45 said:


It would have never pushed it passed the ps2 I never said it needed to actually I don't remember mentioning the ps2. But I still believe it was a big mistake on nintendo's part with the GC along with many other mistakes like launching with Luigi's Mansion instead of a follow up to SM64, Super Mario Sunshine is a mistake on its own, not having a proper follow up to Star Fox 64, , letting the talent at Rare leave then selling them off, basically they damaged most of their IPs at the time. Actually the whole GC era was one large mistake by nintendo as harsh as it may sound.

But what you're saying now is very different from your original post, which started this entire debate.

Here it is:

I know that there are many wind waker fans here but like it or not it is one of the main reasons why the GC failed, it single handedley brought down the GC and almost nintendo. WW is to GC is the same as a $599 price tag on the ps3 or what a lack of games and an uninteresting gamepad is to the wiiU.

You say, quite clearly, that Wind Waker single-handedly brought down the GCN and almost Nintendo.



cyberninja45 on 06 October 2013
Veknoid_Outcast said:
cyberninja45 said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

I think you're really missing the big picture. I don't think a single game, especially a game that sold 4.6 million units and is adored by critics and fans, can doom a system. Gamecube did poorly mostly because of its competition: the PS2. It built on the huge install base from PS1, featured an avalanche of must-have titles, and featured DVD playback. 

You're placing the blame unfairly on Wind Waker.


@ bolded

That's exactly my point right there you just said it, Zelda for GC should have been by all means the most anticipated next gen title at the time, and up to the the point of WW reveal it probably was, afterall it was coming off one of the most well known game amongst gamers at the time called Ocarina of Time.

Now I might have just exaggerated a bit on WW impact on GC sales, but it did play a major role in not helping the GC.

But Ocarina came out five years earlier. The most recent console Zelda was Majora's Mask, a game that sold LESS than Wind Waker.

I don't think Wind Waker was the most anticipated sixth-gen title at the time, either. Games like Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X, and Super Mario Sunshine were probably higher on that list.

In any event, I believe strongly that the sales of Gamecube influenced the sales of Wind Waker much more than the sales for Wind Waker influenced the sales of Gamecube. I just don't think a realistic-looking Zelda based off the mechanics of Ocarina would have convinced PS2 owners to abandon ship, anymore than Wind Waker did.

This was my second reply to you.



My 3ds friendcode: 5413-0232-9676 (G-cyber)



Veknoid_Outcast on 06 October 2013
cyberninja45 said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
cyberninja45 said:


@ bolded

That's exactly my point right there you just said it, Zelda for GC should have been by all means the most anticipated next gen title at the time, and up to the the point of WW reveal it probably was, afterall it was coming off one of the most well known game amongst gamers at the time called Ocarina of Time.

Now I might have just exaggerated a bit on WW impact on GC sales, but it did play a major role in not helping the GC.

But Ocarina came out five years earlier. The most recent console Zelda was Majora's Mask, a game that sold LESS than Wind Waker.

I don't think Wind Waker was the most anticipated sixth-gen title at the time, either. Games like Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X, and Super Mario Sunshine were probably higher on that list.

In any event, I believe strongly that the sales of Gamecube influenced the sales of Wind Waker much more than the sales for Wind Waker influenced the sales of Gamecube. I just don't think a realistic-looking Zelda based off the mechanics of Ocarina would have convinced PS2 owners to abandon ship, anymore than Wind Waker did.

This was my second reply to you.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then, because we're going in circles.



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SvennoJ on 07 October 2013

I'm at Dragon Roost island atm and unfortunately they changed the lighting. I loved the cartoon style hard edge 2 tone lighting of Windwaker on the GC. Seeing the edges move over the characters and the terrain was very nicely done.

In the HD version all the edges have changed into soft edges with gradients lessening the hand drawn style.

I'm nitpicking but playing around with the torches and watching the unique lighting style in action was something that stood out from the original. The rest is exceeding expections, great fun to play it again.
Btw missed opportunity, they could have allowed you to link up a wii motion plus for the wind waker, simply as an extra laying around for just that.



S.Peelman on 08 October 2013

Personally I was caught off guard when Wind Waker was revealed. I remember trying to make sense of it for months; "is this real", "is this the next true Zelda", "is this what the GameCube can do" were thoughts in my mind back then. I knew of the existence of the SpaceWorld demo back then, and I was expecting something like that but better.

However, after I got my senses back I got a GameCube anyway and Wind Waker shortly after on it's release day just because it's Zelda. I didn't care anymore, I just wanted more Zelda. Ever since I played A Link to the Past at a young age in the mid-nineties, Zelda has been my favorite gaming-franchise. Later though as I played through Wind Waker I began to appreciate the style for that game in particular, and began to recognize that it was actually quite the technically impressive game.

If I may nitpick the HD remake though, there's one thing that kind of bugs me and one thing that I think is a missed opportunity.

What bugs me are shadows cast from inanimate objects that often have major jaggies. Shadows like those cast by piers and buildings almost look like they come from stairs instead. It's not a resolution-issue, because shadows cast by animated objects like characters and waving trees are very beautiful and sharp. A minor thing, because the rest is beautifully remade. The sharpness, richness and brightness really bring out the idea behind the artstyle much better than the original did, which now looks dull in comparison. Text has a more fitting font as well and lastly I also greatly appreciate the improvements in the music.
What I think they could have added to make it complete, is the ability to draw and make notes on the map like you can in Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.



Veknoid_Outcast on 08 October 2013
S.Peelman said:
Personally I was caught off guard when Wind Waker was revealed. I remember trying to make sense of it for months; "is this real", "is this the next true Zelda", "is this what the GameCube can do" were thoughts in my mind back then. I knew of the existence of the SpaceWorld demo back then, and I was expecting something like that but better.

However, after I got my senses back I got a GameCube anyway and Wind Waker shortly after on it's release day just because it's Zelda. I didn't care anymore, I just wanted more Zelda. Ever since I played A Link to the Past at a young age in the mid-nineties, Zelda has been my favorite gaming-franchise. Later though as I played through the game I began to appreciate the style for that particular game, and began to recognize that it was actually quite the technically impressive game.

If I may nitpick the HD remake though, there's one thing that kind of bugs me and one thing that I think is a missed opportunity.

What bugs me are shadows cast from inanimate objects that often have major jaggies. Shadows like those cast by piers and buildings almost look like they come from stairs instead. It's not a resolution-issue, because shadows cast by animated objects like characters and waving trees are very beautiful and sharp. A minor thing, because the rest is beautifully remade. The sharpness, richness and brightness really bring out the idea behind the artstyle much better than the original did, which now looks dull in comparison. Text has a more fitting font as well and lastly I also greatly appreciate the improvements in the music.
What I think they could have added to make it complete, is the ability to be able to draw and make notes on the map like you can in Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.

Good call. Ever since playing those games, I always miss the ability to draw on maps. I really could have used that feature in Darksiders...



S.Peelman on 08 October 2013
Veknoid_Outcast said:
S.Peelman said:
(..)
What I think they could have added to make it complete, is the ability to be able to draw and make notes on the map like you can in Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks.

Good call. Ever since playing those games, I always miss the ability to draw on maps. I really could have used that feature in Darksiders...

Yeah. It's not like I need to remind myself how to solve puzzles and whatnot, or that they should've gone overboard and get people to draw the maps themselves like in the DS games (they shouldn't), but it's more because I'd like a place to note what the fish-people say after I threw bait in the sea and simple small stuff like that.

I'm going to forget about that cave in the back of Dragon Roost Island .



SvennoJ on 08 October 2013
S.Peelman said:

If I may nitpick the HD remake though, there's one thing that kind of bugs me and one thing that I think is a missed opportunity.

What bugs me are shadows cast from inanimate objects that often have major jaggies. Shadows like those cast by piers and buildings almost look like they come from stairs instead. It's not a resolution-issue, because shadows cast by animated objects like characters and waving trees are very beautiful and sharp. A minor thing, because the rest is beautifully remade. The sharpness, richness and brightness really bring out the idea behind the artstyle much better than the original did, which now looks dull in comparison. Text has a more fitting font as well and lastly I also greatly appreciate the improvements in the music.



I agree that the extra resolution and added shadows make the game look 10 times better, yet at times I prefer the brighter color palette and contrasting shading of the original. That video shows them side by side from 0:49 at the same size and again from 6:05 in their original aspect ratio. I initially thought the new version was on the right before I enlarged the video to full screen, oops. The HD version looks a bit washed out at certain points.