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haxxiy said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

I'm on page 500 of the first book, and i must say the story isn't moving along. In the first chapters, like you wrote, the hinted to far more than this. It's at least a trilogy, but still there isn't a main villan or some hint of a big plot at page 500.

It's okay at this point. Not great, i'm afraid. Unless the last 200 pages are better, i'm not sure if i'm reading the sequel.

Rothfuss is a "gardener" writer. Meaning he writes the chapters without an outline, hoping it to play out by itself, and books written that way often fall prey to this, not to mention they take forever to release since you'll be endlessly revising previous pages when you got a hint of where things are going later on.

Particularly I don't quite like his books... more due to Kvothe being an annoying brat and I can't stand annoying characters than because of any plot issue. Anyways people tell me Rothfuss is good fantasy and you absolutely need to read it, so I forced myself to munch away the two books. 

Yeah, i figured that much at this point. Personally i don't think it's a good thing to write without an outline.

It seems to me that Kvothe is a Sherlock-like character who lacks a proper moriarty.





In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

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Stefan.De.Machtige said:

Yeah, i figured that much at this point. Personally i don't think it's a good thing to write without an outline.

It seems to me that Kvothe is a Sherlock-like character who lacks a proper moriarty.


Well it worked with A Song of Ice and Fire... except the fourth book I guess. Lord of the Rings was also more or less written that way. But yeah, I agree the time you spend doing that and the risks make it not worth it, except if it's the only way you can write or really have no inspiration or idea as to where things are going haha.



 

 

 

 

 

haxxiy said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

Yeah, i figured that much at this point. Personally i don't think it's a good thing to write without an outline.

It seems to me that Kvothe is a Sherlock-like character who lacks a proper moriarty.


Well it worked with A Song of Ice and Fire... except the fourth book I guess. Lord of the Rings was also more or less written that way. But yeah, I agree the time you spend doing that and the risks make it not worth it, except if it's the only way you can write or really have no inspiration or idea as to where things are going haha.


I think the last two song of ice and fire books are why it isn't a good approach.  Martin is starting to approach Jordan levels of delayed storytelling.  Plus, I think Martin does have a general outline of what he wants to do with each book as he knows how many books are going to be in the series...



Stefan.De.Machtige said:
haxxiy said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

I'm on page 500 of the first book, and i must say the story isn't moving along. In the first chapters, like you wrote, the hinted to far more than this. It's at least a trilogy, but still there isn't a main villan or some hint of a big plot at page 500.

It's okay at this point. Not great, i'm afraid. Unless the last 200 pages are better, i'm not sure if i'm reading the sequel.

Rothfuss is a "gardener" writer. Meaning he writes the chapters without an outline, hoping it to play out by itself, and books written that way often fall prey to this, not to mention they take forever to release since you'll be endlessly revising previous pages when you got a hint of where things are going later on.

Particularly I don't quite like his books... more due to Kvothe being an annoying brat and I can't stand annoying characters than because of any plot issue. Anyways people tell me Rothfuss is good fantasy and you absolutely need to read it, so I forced myself to munch away the two books. 

Yeah, i figured that much at this point. Personally i don't think it's a good thing to write without an outline.

It seems to me that Kvothe is a Sherlock-like character who lacks a proper moriarty.



I don't know if sherlock is a good comparison.  The kingkillers play out more like a LOST kind of story and I don't know of another book series to compare it to.  LIke lost, these books dig up questions with few answers.  The reader is left creating theories on who Denna's Patron might be, what happened to modern day Kvothe, what is behind that door in the stacks, What happened to the Amir? etc.  

The books are amazing at striking up conversation and contemplation.  More so than pretty much any other fantasy series.  



gergroy said:


I think the last two song of ice and fire books are why it isn't a good approach.  Martin is starting to approach Jordan levels of delayed storytelling.  Plus, I think Martin does have a general outline of what he wants to do with each book as he knows how many books are going to be in the series...

More or less... at first ASOIAF was to be a trilogy, then a hexalogy with a time skip, then a hexalogy without a time skip, before finally settling for the current seven-book format we're all expecting him to comply. 

And thinking about it now I kind of agree about the overall slow pace and lack of a general plot that cursed AFFC to have carried over to ADWD... but at least the characters are better and we've seen the resolution of plotlines left over a decade hanging, so I guess that's part of the book being perceived on a better light than AFFC.



 

 

 

 

 

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gergroy said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
haxxiy said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

I'm on page 500 of the first book, and i must say the story isn't moving along. In the first chapters, like you wrote, the hinted to far more than this. It's at least a trilogy, but still there isn't a main villan or some hint of a big plot at page 500.

It's okay at this point. Not great, i'm afraid. Unless the last 200 pages are better, i'm not sure if i'm reading the sequel.

Rothfuss is a "gardener" writer. Meaning he writes the chapters without an outline, hoping it to play out by itself, and books written that way often fall prey to this, not to mention they take forever to release since you'll be endlessly revising previous pages when you got a hint of where things are going later on.

Particularly I don't quite like his books... more due to Kvothe being an annoying brat and I can't stand annoying characters than because of any plot issue. Anyways people tell me Rothfuss is good fantasy and you absolutely need to read it, so I forced myself to munch away the two books. 

Yeah, i figured that much at this point. Personally i don't think it's a good thing to write without an outline.

It seems to me that Kvothe is a Sherlock-like character who lacks a proper moriarty.

I don't know if sherlock is a good comparison.  The kingkillers play out more like a LOST kind of story and I don't know of another book series to compare it to.  LIke lost, these books dig up questions with few answers.  The reader is left creating theories on who Denna's Patron might be, what happened to modern day Kvothe, what is behind that door in the stacks, What happened to the Amir? etc.  

The books are amazing at striking up conversation and contemplation.  More so than pretty much any other fantasy series.  

I meant that he's a great/odd/briljant personality (like Sherlock), and a Moriarty-like character would balance (or challenge that). Even two big opposing characters within the specific style would have been far more appealing to me.

It would be more a clash of emotions or personalities. It could work really wel, even without a clear plot structure. They even ended Lost like that: not in some rational explanation, but in a sense of emotional connections.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

Marks said:
What's a book?






 

Stefan.De.Machtige said:
gergroy said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
haxxiy said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

I'm on page 500 of the first book, and i must say the story isn't moving along. In the first chapters, like you wrote, the hinted to far more than this. It's at least a trilogy, but still there isn't a main villan or some hint of a big plot at page 500.

It's okay at this point. Not great, i'm afraid. Unless the last 200 pages are better, i'm not sure if i'm reading the sequel.

Rothfuss is a "gardener" writer. Meaning he writes the chapters without an outline, hoping it to play out by itself, and books written that way often fall prey to this, not to mention they take forever to release since you'll be endlessly revising previous pages when you got a hint of where things are going later on.

Particularly I don't quite like his books... more due to Kvothe being an annoying brat and I can't stand annoying characters than because of any plot issue. Anyways people tell me Rothfuss is good fantasy and you absolutely need to read it, so I forced myself to munch away the two books. 

Yeah, i figured that much at this point. Personally i don't think it's a good thing to write without an outline.

It seems to me that Kvothe is a Sherlock-like character who lacks a proper moriarty.

I don't know if sherlock is a good comparison.  The kingkillers play out more like a LOST kind of story and I don't know of another book series to compare it to.  LIke lost, these books dig up questions with few answers.  The reader is left creating theories on who Denna's Patron might be, what happened to modern day Kvothe, what is behind that door in the stacks, What happened to the Amir? etc.  

The books are amazing at striking up conversation and contemplation.  More so than pretty much any other fantasy series.  

I meant that he's a great/odd/briljant personality (like Sherlock), and a Moriarty-like character would balance (or challenge that). Even two big opposing characters within the specific style would have been far more appealing to me.

It would be more a clash of emotions or personalities. It could work really wel, even without a clear plot structure. They even ended Lost like that: not in some rational explanation, but in a sense of emotional connections.


yeah, but they didn't get around to introducing that opposing character until the last season.  Kvothe isn't without conflict, so I don't know if a main antagonist is really essential, at least at this point in the story.  There are obviously antagonists in the story, you have ambrose, master hem, the chandrian, as well as a variety of other antagonists that I will leave out so as to not reveal plot points.  

Like I said, I see it playing out like Lost where the mystery is slowly peeled back and the essential plot is finally revealed at which point the main antagonist will be presented center stage.  



Finished The Fellowship of the Ring yesterday and I just thought it was amazing. I'm going to start reading The Last Apprentice: Night of the Soul Stealer again and I will also start reading I Know What You Did Last Summer by Lois Duncan soon.



Moving at the end of the month so started to box up my books and suddenly i find myself reading some old stuff like the Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay and the Memory Sorrow Thorn Series by Tad Williams.



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