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Forums - Politics Discussion - CT senator says games influenced Sandy Hook shooter and CA Senator says "Gamers need to Quiet Down"

Tagged games:

Panama on 25 January 2013

Yeah it's definitely those video games that glorify the violence. Anyway, I'm going to go watch Django and Gangster Squad and hold up a bank with a cap gun, then I'm going to blame it on video games. See you guys in a few years.



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Otakumegane on 25 January 2013
pokoko said:
bonkers555 said:

I somewhat agree. If you look closely, what does the young shooters in Columbine, New Mexico and Sandy Hook have in common. They all loved to play violent video games.

I'm not blaming Video Games 100% here, but you can see their is some effect to it.

That's a horrible, horrible attempt at logic.  Common factors do not equal causality.  What if it turns out that all the killers went to Sunday School, would that be a cause?  What if they all liked Pepsi?  What if they were all minors who had easy access to fire-arms?

Wait, I've got one: what if they were all mentally unstable people who were allowed to experience violent media as well as having easy access to fire-arms?  Ding ding.

If people look at that description and their first response is "the games did it" then something is very, very wrong.  I would think the "mentally unstable with easy access to fire-arms" part would be the more important factor.

And here is another question: What if the common factor is that mentally unstable people with violent tendencies are DRAWN to violent videogames rather than being CREATED by violent videogames?  And how should we explain the limitless number of violent, mentally unstable people who have commited murder WITHOUT access to violent videogames?  How should we view the fact that, since the rise of violent videogames, mass shootings and violent crime in general have gone down?  Yep, that's right, mass shootings in the United States are down.  But how can that possibly be the case with all these kids running around CoDing up the place?  Crazy stuff.  http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/18/nation/la-na-nn-mass-shootings-common-20121218

If violent games are way up and violent crimes, including mass shootings, are down, then what is the logic behind the idea that violent games cause violent crime?


While you make good points you may want to edit that part out.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

xwan on 25 January 2013

Most games i play and anime i watch tends to teach "good" moral lessons, not sure what these bafoons are smoking. I hate politicians and lawyers.



pokoko on 25 January 2013
Otakumegane said:
pokoko said:
bonkers555 said:

I somewhat agree. If you look closely, what does the young shooters in Columbine, New Mexico and Sandy Hook have in common. They all loved to play violent video games.

I'm not blaming Video Games 100% here, but you can see their is some effect to it.

That's a horrible, horrible attempt at logic.  Common factors do not equal causality.  What if it turns out that all the killers went to Sunday School, would that be a cause?  What if they all liked Pepsi?  What if they were all minors who had easy access to fire-arms?

Wait, I've got one: what if they were all mentally unstable people who were allowed to experience violent media as well as having easy access to fire-arms?  Ding ding.

If people look at that description and their first response is "the games did it" then something is very, very wrong.  I would think the "mentally unstable with easy access to fire-arms" part would be the more important factor.

And here is another question: What if the common factor is that mentally unstable people with violent tendencies are DRAWN to violent videogames rather than being CREATED by violent videogames?  And how should we explain the limitless number of violent, mentally unstable people who have commited murder WITHOUT access to violent videogames?  How should we view the fact that, since the rise of violent videogames, mass shootings and violent crime in general have gone down?  Yep, that's right, mass shootings in the United States are down.  But how can that possibly be the case with all these kids running around CoDing up the place?  Crazy stuff.  http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/18/nation/la-na-nn-mass-shootings-common-20121218

If violent games are way up and violent crimes, including mass shootings, are down, then what is the logic behind the idea that violent games cause violent crime?


While you make good points you may want to edit that part out.

Why?



Otakumegane on 25 January 2013
pokoko said:
Otakumegane said:
pokoko said:
bonkers555 said:

I somewhat agree. If you look closely, what does the young shooters in Columbine, New Mexico and Sandy Hook have in common. They all loved to play violent video games.

I'm not blaming Video Games 100% here, but you can see their is some effect to it.

That's a horrible, horrible attempt at logic.  Common factors do not equal causality.  What if it turns out that all the killers went to Sunday School, would that be a cause?  What if they all liked Pepsi?  What if they were all minors who had easy access to fire-arms?

Wait, I've got one: what if they were all mentally unstable people who were allowed to experience violent media as well as having easy access to fire-arms?  Ding ding.

If people look at that description and their first response is "the games did it" then something is very, very wrong.  I would think the "mentally unstable with easy access to fire-arms" part would be the more important factor.

And here is another question: What if the common factor is that mentally unstable people with violent tendencies are DRAWN to violent videogames rather than being CREATED by violent videogames?  And how should we explain the limitless number of violent, mentally unstable people who have commited murder WITHOUT access to violent videogames?  How should we view the fact that, since the rise of violent videogames, mass shootings and violent crime in general have gone down?  Yep, that's right, mass shootings in the United States are down.  But how can that possibly be the case with all these kids running around CoDing up the place?  Crazy stuff.  http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/18/nation/la-na-nn-mass-shootings-common-20121218

If violent games are way up and violent crimes, including mass shootings, are down, then what is the logic behind the idea that violent games cause violent crime?


While you make good points you may want to edit that part out.

Why?

Correlation/causation stuff yadda yadda.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

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wfz on 25 January 2013

My Californian senator said that us "video gamers" (who are actually the LARGE majority of the USA population) have a lust for violence and our opinions are biased?

Holy fucking shit, how do I motion to remove this man from his position? I swear to god, the retarded US government the last number of years has made me so upset that I just want to move to Canada.



pokoko on 25 January 2013
Otakumegane said:
pokoko said:
Otakumegane said:
pokoko said:
bonkers555 said:

I somewhat agree. If you look closely, what does the young shooters in Columbine, New Mexico and Sandy Hook have in common. They all loved to play violent video games.

I'm not blaming Video Games 100% here, but you can see their is some effect to it.

That's a horrible, horrible attempt at logic.  Common factors do not equal causality.  What if it turns out that all the killers went to Sunday School, would that be a cause?  What if they all liked Pepsi?  What if they were all minors who had easy access to fire-arms?

Wait, I've got one: what if they were all mentally unstable people who were allowed to experience violent media as well as having easy access to fire-arms?  Ding ding.

If people look at that description and their first response is "the games did it" then something is very, very wrong.  I would think the "mentally unstable with easy access to fire-arms" part would be the more important factor.

And here is another question: What if the common factor is that mentally unstable people with violent tendencies are DRAWN to violent videogames rather than being CREATED by violent videogames?  And how should we explain the limitless number of violent, mentally unstable people who have commited murder WITHOUT access to violent videogames?  How should we view the fact that, since the rise of violent videogames, mass shootings and violent crime in general have gone down?  Yep, that's right, mass shootings in the United States are down.  But how can that possibly be the case with all these kids running around CoDing up the place?  Crazy stuff.  http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/18/nation/la-na-nn-mass-shootings-common-20121218

If violent games are way up and violent crimes, including mass shootings, are down, then what is the logic behind the idea that violent games cause violent crime?


While you make good points you may want to edit that part out.

Why?

Correlation/causation stuff yadda yadda.

I don't understand what you're saying.  I'm asking what the logic is behind the idea that violent games cause violent crime when violent crime is going down during a period where violent games have increased.



thismeintiel on 25 January 2013
bonkers555 said:
thismeintiel said:
bonkers555 said:
riderz13371 said:
bonkers555 said:

Drinking coffee, going on a mass murder is the same to you as playing violent video games, going on a mass murder. Sorry dude, done debating with you. Have a good night.

No it isn't the same I'm just showing you how pathetic your argument is. 

Pathetic because I value life of a child and don't want any stone unturn to make sure none of these shit ever happen again. Ok dude, enjoy your video games.

And you just lost.  You don't win an agument by demoninzing the other side by suggesting they don't value children's lives.  That just shows you have no argument and you know it.  And the no stone unturned part just shows me you would support censorship if the government told you that that was 100% necessary.

As for your response to me, everything you suggested, the private market has already put measures into place.  They created the ESRB to rate games.  The ratings are clearly visible on the cases, and in black and white so they don't blend into the cover.  Every store I have been to that sells games has large signs near the games that show all the different ratings, as well as what they mean.  And most stores, like Walmart and Gamestop, won't sell minors M games unless the parent is there to give their say so.  So, we have some parents that feel their children are capable of handling those games and some parents who just don't care.  I highly doubt we need the government to step in and waste more time and money, when in the end, it will change nothing.  Which again, only leaves forced censorship.  We don't need to go down that ugly route.

Different between me and you guys are that I believe there might be a small chance that these games effected these kids, you guys are just dimissing it. I'm open there might be a possibilities until reseaches and studies comes out to dismiss it. I'm not a politician, PHD or a Scientist to make that call. But I'm a father and to me being a father is more important then puting a label on the Video Games industry.

Again with the demonization.  You are implying that the fathers among us care more about the gaming industry than their own children.  Pathetic.  And all the data that I have seen suggests that gun violence has actually been going down in the past decade or so.  Now, considering gaming is the largest it has ever been, as well as having many more M games compared to previous gens, what does that tell you?  Well, you can either suggest that video games actually make people less likely to commit acts of violence (especially with guns), or you can do the reasonable thing and conclude that they have nothing to do with one another. 

If there are ~250M home consoles out there, and probably around 3/4 of those houses have children (so ~190M children/young adults being warped by gaming), don't you think there would be FAR more of these acts commited in the past few years, not less?



 

Otakumegane on 25 January 2013
pokoko said:

I don't understand what you're saying.  I'm asking what the logic is behind the idea that violent games cause violent crime when violent crime is going down during a period where violent games have increased.

I'm saying that I agree that I don't particularly think that violent games cause violent crime but violent games DO NOT decrease violent crime.

Correlation does not imply causation. Same argument theese guys are apparently using.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

thismeintiel on 25 January 2013
wfz said:
My Californian senator said that us "video gamers" (who are actually the LARGE majority of the USA population) have a lust for violence and our opinions are biased?

Holy fucking shit, how do I motion to remove this man from his position? I swear to god, the retarded US government the last number of years has made me so upset that I just want to move to Canada.

I think the BIG problem is that most politicians are too old.  May seem harsh, but it is true.  They never grew up on video games, so what they don't understand frightens them.  It's no different from the parents of the 50's and 60's (ironically, many of these politicians' parents), who were afraid of Rock N' Roll corrupting their children.  Or the parents of the 90's, who were afraid of Metal music, like Marilyn Manson's.  Video games started getting heat around the same time Marilyn Manson did, but it has sustained far longer.  Of course, I think a lot of the "younger" politicians (40's and 50's) don't feel the same way about video games, but they want to not only look like they are doing something (even though they aren't), as well as get their hands on some of that COD money (hence the proposed "violent video game tax").