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Forums - General Discussion - Why try to disprove/disagree with religion?

Fayceless said:
Runa216 said:
Fayceless said:

There is no need to disprove religion.

People like Richard Dawkins do more to hold back scientific progress than advance it.  It becomes "us vs. them."  There is no need for this.  This antagonistic aproach to science and religion is harmful.  The two can coexist, but it will take effort from both sides.  When scientists set out to disprove religion it only makes people dig in further and refuse to budge from their views.  It reinforces the view that science is "evil."

...

Aaaha!  Are you serious?  

And of course science and religion can coexist, as long as they're not deemed peers.  They are not in the same leagues as one another, they should not be treated with equal respect as far as their positions on the origin of the world and for explaining the world around  us, and they should not have to fight over who decides what's right, wrong, and ethical.  

Religion is a philosophy combining history and mythology. 

Science is truth as best we can explain it.  

They are not the same.  It's apples and oranges.  Simple as that. 


You didn't read what I had to say.  I never once compared science to religion, or tried to say that they are "equal."  Two things that are fundamentally differen't can't be equal.  A stick of gum can't be equal to a pencil.  Because they're completely different things!

Religion is a system of belief in why we exist and how we should behave, both as individuals and as a species.

Science is our effort to understand the world around us through observations and experimentation.

I see no conflict.

You, not me, are trying to compare science and religion, as if one can be "superior" to the other, even though they, in fact, should not conflict with one another.  Just as that stick of gum won't prevent you from writing a a paper.  (what, that last sentence sounds absurd? You're right! It does! *wink*)


I agree with you, the 'how' (science) does not have to be at odds with the 'why' (religion)... but good luck having an open and reasonable discussion with him. His self-admitted motivation is to attack and wipe out religion as much as he can, not to have a reasonable discussion. He's just as bad if not worse than the most intolerant of religious folks, just on the other side of the debate.



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dsgrue3 said:

Oh my God, people still believe homosexuality is a choice? Did you choose to be straight? This is beyond stupid at this point.

DNA

" In the summer of 1993, Dean H. Hamer and his research team at the National Cancer Institute announced their discovered evidence of a connection between genetics and some male homosexuality. By constructing family trees in instances where two or more brothers are gay, and performing actual laboratory testing of the supposed homosexual DNA, Hamer located a region near the end of the long arm of the X chromosome that likely contains a gene influencing sexual orientation."

Source: Here

The gene was named "HMS 1" and as written above was supposed to be located in chromosome region Xq28. That discovery was speculative at best, never comfirmed by independent sources and as such was in year 2007. removed from all relevant scientific databases (in other words "gene" was withdrawn by HGNC, because it doesn't exist). 

Click me!



dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:
You say they made him up, I say He revealed himself to specific individuals Hknew had a good heart. Self hypnosis? Really? C'mon, that's not even close to what I'm talking about. Why do some atheists have to be so blatently militant about their beliefs?

If I knew everything about how and why God works, I would write a book about it and become rich.

Yep and the mental ward patients didn't make up their imaginary friend, the friend revealed him/herself to them. I hope you know how ridiculous you sound right now.

Only ridiculous if you don't belive God exists. We're speaking from two completely different worldviews here.



timmah said:
dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:
You say they made him up, I say He revealed himself to specific individuals Hknew had a good heart. Self hypnosis? Really? C'mon, that's not even close to what I'm talking about. Why do some atheists have to be so blatently militant about their beliefs?

If I knew everything about how and why God works, I would write a book about it and become rich.

Yep and the mental ward patients didn't make up their imaginary friend, the friend revealed him/herself to them. I hope you know how ridiculous you sound right now.

Only ridiculous if you don't belive God exists. We're speaking from two completely different worldviews here.

Confirmed:  Timmah doesn't know how ridiculous he sounds right now. 



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I'm starting to think some of you atheists feel threatened by people of faith... why is this? There's not another good explanation for the way you attack. It's quite ironic that the atheists seem to be the most intolerant against opposing views, when us 'religious people' are supposedly the intolerant ones.



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timmah said:
dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:
You say they made him up, I say He revealed himself to specific individuals Hknew had a good heart. Self hypnosis? Really? C'mon, that's not even close to what I'm talking about. Why do some atheists have to be so blatently militant about their beliefs?

If I knew everything about how and why God works, I would write a book about it and become rich.

Yep and the mental ward patients didn't make up their imaginary friend, the friend revealed him/herself to them. I hope you know how ridiculous you sound right now.

Only ridiculous if you don't belive God exists. We're speaking from two completely different worldviews here.

So you believe these patients are seeing real beings with whom they can interact? Just wanted to make the question clear.



Runa216 said:
timmah said:
dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:
You say they made him up, I say He revealed himself to specific individuals Hknew had a good heart. Self hypnosis? Really? C'mon, that's not even close to what I'm talking about. Why do some atheists have to be so blatently militant about their beliefs?

If I knew everything about how and why God works, I would write a book about it and become rich.

Yep and the mental ward patients didn't make up their imaginary friend, the friend revealed him/herself to them. I hope you know how ridiculous you sound right now.

Only ridiculous if you don't belive God exists. We're speaking from two completely different worldviews here.

Confirmed:  Timmah doesn't know how ridiculous he sounds right now. 

I'm fully aware of how ridiculous that sounds to an atheist. I find it ridiculous how you feel the need to obstinantly attack views that don't line up with yours. I find it ridiculous that you completely write off any possibility of something existing beyond what humanity's extremely limited senses, mental capacity, and observations can prove. Even Abert Einstein (whom you like to quote) believed in some form of God, albeit not a personal God, and I'm sure he would have been much more open-minded and tolerant in his methods of communication in the subject.



timmah said:
I'm starting to think some of you atheists feel threatened by people of faith... why is this? There's not another good explanation for the way you attack. It's quite ironic that the atheists seem to be the most intolerant against opposing views, when us 'religious people' are supposedly the intolerant ones.

HAve you been reading this entire thread?  We DO feel threatened by people of faith becuase people of faith are fucking this world over in various ways.  Sure, they do some good too, and I'd never stop them from that, but wars have been fought over religions, people have been killed, tortured, and persecuted over religion and for pathetic religious reasonings, much of the middle east is in unrest becuase of religion, and I bet those atheists in the twin towers were pretty fucking upset with 'people of faith' when someone's faith urged them to kill all the infidels.  Not to mention scientists have had progress halted becuase of some religious ideaology claiming that 'stem cell research is against the word of god' or that 'Intelligent Design needs to be taught in schools', or that homosexuality is a sin, or...anything really.  

There are so many repeated instances of religion infringing on the rights and freedoms of others that the world could actually make PROGRESS if it left religion in the past.  you don't need God to get together with like minded people and donate to the poor. you don't need god to be kind to one another.  you don't need god to dictate the laws of a civilized people.  but you DO need god to justify hijacking a plane and flying it into a building that's carrying thousands of people who believe something different than you. you DO need god to convince you that walking into a crowded mall with a bomb strapped to your chest so you can go to heaven and be ravaged by 72 virgins.  you DO need god to convince yourself that for some reason contraception is immoral (despite our population issues and the spread of STD's).  

Normal people feel threatened by 'those of faith' when 'those of faith' are doing everything in their power to push their beliefs on others, and they're winning.  we feel threatened becuase Atheists ARE the minority, and we are losing a battle against an enemy with an imaginary friend.  



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dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:
dsgrue3 said:
timmah said:
You say they made him up, I say He revealed himself to specific individuals Hknew had a good heart. Self hypnosis? Really? C'mon, that's not even close to what I'm talking about. Why do some atheists have to be so blatently militant about their beliefs?

If I knew everything about how and why God works, I would write a book about it and become rich.

Yep and the mental ward patients didn't make up their imaginary friend, the friend revealed him/herself to them. I hope you know how ridiculous you sound right now.

Only ridiculous if you don't belive God exists. We're speaking from two completely different worldviews here.

So you believe these patients are seeing real beings with whom they can interact? Just wanted to make the question clear.

Of course not! You're really great at jumping to conclusions, not so much at having a reasonable conversation. But if one believes that God exists, why would one not also believe He can interact with his creation if he chooses?



timmah said:

I'm fully aware of how ridiculous that sounds to an atheist. I find it ridiculous how you feel the need to obstinantly attack views that don't line up with yours. I find it ridiculous that you completely write off any possibility of something existing beyond what humanity's extremely limited senses, mental capacity, and observations can prove. Even Abert Einstein (whom you like to quote) believed in some form of God, albeit not a personal God, and I'm sure he would have been much more open-minded and tolerant in his methods of communication in the subject.

who's putting words in who's mouth now?  

I never said "there is no god".  there might be, WE can never know, but there's no evidence supporting an existence of a god (and no, 'there might be, we can't disprove god' is not evidence), and therefore believing in god is irrational.  I don't have a problem with spirituality, I ahve a problem with religion becuase religion does a lot of nasty shit to the nonbelievers (and other believers who don't believe the exact same thing).  

And I'd be more tolerant and openminded if I hadn't had to deal with the bullshit the church spews for a quarter decade, only to be insulted by the masses when I bring up how hilariously illogical and irrational religion is.  And I get angry about it and lose my cool becuase I'm apparently not allowed to tell you you're all mentally insane, even though most psychological science would come to that conclusion if your imaginary friend wasn't named God or Yaweh or Jehovah or allah. 



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