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Forums - General - So are we allowed to make troll threads now?

bananaking21 on 22 January 2013
Kantor said:
JayWood2010 said:
Kantor said:

Actually, it's in the rules. Rule 2 to be precise.


New Users. Because new users have not yet shown a commitment to civil discourse, moderators will look more harshly upon them (and upon prolific rule-breakers) than established users with relatively clear moderation histories. If you are a long-time member of the site, it is easy to tell the difference between a light-hearted, humorous post, and a genuine piece of flamebait. This distinction is far less clear when you are a new user, so we advise caution.

 

Trust me when I say that it is impossible to judge all people based on equal criteria because either you allow through every troll post and thread ever made, or you completely ban all forms of humour. Can you please explain what is wrong with this system without bringing in individual examples with which you are personally involved?

yes I can say what is wrong with this system.  Everybody should have the same rules applied to them regardless of how long they have been here.  It sets a bad example for new users and in my opinion makes this site looks bad at times.  so should i be able to speed in car in real life because cops have known me longer and that I haven't had a bad reputation?  No becuase it is still dangerous.  Same goes to this rule. If one person cant do it then why the others?  

You will certainly get a harsher sentence as somebody with a record of reckless driving.

But that's not the point. Posting threads is entirely about intent. There is no possible benign intent when you are driving a car.

Intent is a lot clearer for an established member with no record of trolling, both for us and for other users.

But more importantly in this case, the damage done by a thread is the flamewar that ensues from it, and the space it takes up that could be used for better threads. A thread which is genuinely amusing causes no flamewar and wastes no space.

Is that necessarily going to be one made by somebody accustomed to making those sorts of threads? No. But there's a very strong correlation.

but how can you possibaly really know the intent of a user? just because he has been here for a long time doesnt mean he can really know the intent of a thread.

also your forgetting that in all these threads there were games that were bashed and its apperant from a lot of users who posted in them that they didnt see it funny, so why allow it depending on the user? these threads add nothing and do just harm an no good. and yes there a "joke" thread but really whats funny about them? what is actually funny?

now i get that Rol's thread wasnt really about the game but more about the "unbaised reviews" which makes it even worse, if he had an opinion to say about them he could of made a thread with the tittle of "can a review really be unbaised?"  and that was it, but he went out of his way to go and mock them, now i know his intent might not have beent to mock them, but guess what? he did. and we can go out and say that is might be funny and no harm done, but its the same of me going and making fun of an obese person, a lot of people might laugh but it still is wrong, same thing should apply here. these threads bashed games that developers took years working on, and vgchartz is a large gaming online community we should have A LOT more respect for these developers. and when a new commer comes and find the hot topics on the front of the page filled with these threads he might just go do the same, and get banned. 

as i said these threads add nothing, they all should be locked



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NintendoPie on 22 January 2013
green_sky said:
NintendoPie said:

If people feel that bad about their game being bashed then they should stop. So what if other people think a game that you like is trash? It's their opinion.

It's okay man. People always feel some sort of offense when other's trash their game. I remember once you saying that people who don't like Pokemon don't have soul. Of course you were 13 and can't be judged harshly for things like that. The topic has gone far too long than i expected. I think Jaywood just wanted answer from the mods and he got it to some extent. 

Safe to say the bias and taking digs at other games and platforms is going to continue. No matter who the joke is on.

That was a joke, an obvious one!

Sure, people get somewhat offended. But if someone takes it so seriously that they think Rol's (or any joke thread to be exact) is a personal attack on their purchase, I think that's somewhat ridiculous.



VGKing on 22 January 2013

ManBearPig thread is pure trolling. He deserved that ban.

Galaki thread is sarcasm and an obvious joke thread.

Rol thread is trolling. He should have gotten banned for that. Took it too far.



VGKing on 22 January 2013
RolStoppable said:
VGKing said:
ManBearPig thread is pure trolling. He deserved that ban.

Galaki thread is sarcasm and an obvious joke thread.

Rol thread is trolling. He should have gotten banned for that. Took it too far.

Yeah, I get that Galaki's thread was an obvious joke. It was easy to tell, because the Sony game came out on top.

No offense but your thread crossed the line. It's actually pretty much the same as ManBearPIgs thread. Who cares if you didn't start a flame war that shouldn't be the basis for moderations. If at least 1 person took offense from it then I think the mods should respond. I wonder if you at least got a warning for that thread....at least unofficial.



Jaywood2010 on 22 January 2013
RolStoppable said:

First off, the story about my thread. I decided to write an unbiased review, because there have been a lot floating around lately and there's nothing like no bias (that's not to mock JayWood2010's reviews specifically, but the idea of unbias as a whole). I refrained from copying the title of JayWood2010's series to avoid making it look like it's part of his series. Hence no quotations and no "A RolStoppable review". The first game I could think of to write about was Mario Kart 7, because I had just played it against some other VGC members. I had a certain amount of text in mind (around five paragraphs) and quickly concluded that writing solely about MK7 would be dragging out things too long. So why not make it a combo review and compare it to ModNation Racers: Road Trip? This was the perfect fit for various reasons:

1. It became easy to hit the word count I had in mind.
2. It would work very well to make the thread even more biased than with just MK7 alone, because it was on a competing platform.
3. It's a game that is so insignificant that the chances to make people angry were incredibly low, so the thread wouldn't be taken in a dangerous direction. If people don't care enough about a game to defend it, then there won't be a flame war. MNR:RT is basically the PSV's Steel Diver.

The thing with troll threads is that the creator has quite a lot of power over the tone of the thread. I've done this stuff long enough to have a good idea what is going to happen, although on any given day you may have people who disrupt the thread and it turns into something completely unexpected. There's no guarantee that things will go according to plan, but there are ways to increase the chances for safety. Suppose I made a comparison thread between SSBB and PSABR with the same review scores I have given MK7 and MNR:RT. That would have turned into a mess in no time, because many people will defend PSABR. It would have completely undermined the point of my thread. Which wasn't to take a cheap shot at a Sony game like some people may believe, but poking fun at the notion of unbias.

As for the whole thing about new user vs. established user, I am well aware that I am holding a lot of power in my hands and I do my best to not abuse it. I think the mods can see this, so that's why I am not facing any moderations for my threads. I don't make threads to get people banned, I even ask the mods to unban people who insulted me. Unfortunately, lately the mods have refused to act on my requests, so for the two guys that got banned in MK7 vs. MNR:RT I didn't even ask to unban them. I had a lengthy discussion with axumblade last fall that led to the conclusion that the mods won't unban people for personal insults, even if I explicitly ask for it. I find this decision non-sensical, but it is what it is.

Are my threads fun or not? That's something that everyone has to decide for themselves. What I've noticed in all these years though is that the fun factor for quite a few people depends on which company or fanbase the joke is on. I saw people up in arms in one thread only to see the same people congratulate me in another, because I panned Nintendo instead of Sony, for example.

Lastly, are joke threads per se a problem on this site? No, only bad threads are a problem. A good joke thread might actually help some people who take the whole console wars thing too seriouly to wisen up. Once people realize how silly some of the issues that are being fought over are, they will be more open to discussions that don't degrade into us vs. them immediately.


I really appreicate your answer and I'm fine with you poking fun of the name "An Unbiased Review" as it is an easy target.  

Still I want answers from mods.  Only one mod has came in here and tried to justify the reason and I think it is pretty clear that a lot of people don't agree with the mods.  I have no problem with you guys making jokes.  I have problems with special priveleges.  Either they all go or they all stay.  None of them contributes to the site, they make the site look unprofessional, and it causes confusion in the community.  On the good side they can be funny and they bring light hearted humor, and as you said it gts people away from ridiculous console wars.  But as I said, my problem with the whole situation is all of you guys poked fun at "An Unbiased review"  in a similar way.  MBP showed clear biased against Uncharted.  Galaki showed clear bias against mole kart or whatever he was talking about. You showed clear bias against MNR.  I understand the joke and I have no problem with you, galaki, or MBP.  What I have a problem with is the mods being very unclear on this type of stuff.  We should have clear rules and not a bunch of rules that could be bent because Ive been here longer.  Ive been here for years and if I did something like that id be banned.  I have a clear record too, but I know im controversial enough not to get away with it.  Not only did you guys troll but you made fun of many users who post these threads for quality.  If you think those reviews are biased then go to each one of them and point out how they are.  As I said though, I have no problem with what you all did, but I still want answers from moderators and for whatever reason none of them are coming -_-




       

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Farsala on 22 January 2013

The problem with MBP's threads is he did not write it well enough to make it exactly a joke thread. I would think a lot of people thought he was serious, while with the other 2 noone thought they were serious. MBP reviews a single game while the other 2 review 2 games each.



slowmo on 22 January 2013

They've always been allowed as long as you tread that inconsistent wavy line the rules are unable to narrow down definitively. The mod team are there to try and ensure a healthy forum that encourages debate, unfortunately the price you pay for quality is censorship. If you write a risky thread then you generally know what your doing, if it gets you modded then its often justifiable. Sure the consistency isn't perfect but the mods are only human, they don't all share the same opinion and every user and post is unique making any judgement call tough to meet the same as a earlier precedent if the mod wasn't involved.



NiKKoM on 22 January 2013
VGKing said:
RolStoppable said:
VGKing said:
ManBearPig thread is pure trolling. He deserved that ban.

Galaki thread is sarcasm and an obvious joke thread.

Rol thread is trolling. He should have gotten banned for that. Took it too far.

Yeah, I get that Galaki's thread was an obvious joke. It was easy to tell, because the Sony game came out on top.

No offense but your thread crossed the line. It's actually pretty much the same as ManBearPIgs thread. Who cares if you didn't start a flame war that shouldn't be the basis for moderations. If at least 1 person took offense from it then I think the mods should respond. I wonder if you at least got a warning for that thread....at least unofficial.



LMAO you're the guy who made that "MS will be third next gen" thread and now you complain about troll threads? My my...



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

pokoko on 22 January 2013
RolStoppable said:

Are my threads fun or not? That's something that everyone has to decide for themselves. What I've noticed in all these years though is that the fun factor for quite a few people depends on which company or fanbase the joke is on. I saw people up in arms in one thread only to see the same people congratulate me in another, because I panned Nintendo instead of Sony, for example.

Lastly, are joke threads per se a problem on this site? No, only bad threads are a problem. A good joke thread might actually help some people who take the whole console wars thing too seriouly to wisen up. Once people realize how silly some of the issues that are being fought over are, they will be more open to discussions that don't degrade into us vs. them immediately.

I actually agree with a lot of what you said from an objective point of view.  The problem, however, is that you're basically setting up new users for moderation.  They come in with no understanding of the context, or even that context exists, they engage in what they believe is the same level of discourse, then the next thing they know is that they're sitting out a ban and wondering how such a double standard (from their perspective) can be allowed to exist.  I understand that you've asked people not be banned in certain situations but the problem does continue to exist.

I'll be honest--and I mean this as really-happened, actual truth--I almost left this forum as quickly as I joined because of Galaki.  I was going through different threads, noticing the under-currents of tension that seldom spilled over, except that this one guy seemed to be able to say anything he wanted under the guise of extremely thin sarcasm.  It's kind of a "WTF is going on here" moment for a newbie.

After being here awhile, the conclusion I've arrived at is that certain people know how to game the system by blurring their intent.  All you really have to do is create a certain level of doubt.  Be funny at times, be reasonable at times, and you can cross the line far more often than someone who is blunt and direct.  I'm not saying that's necessarily wrong but I'm also not entirely sure it's right, either, at least not when newer users might eat a ban right off the bat.

That's where the "intent" part of the rationale really breaks down.  You've got mods who have been here for years judging posters who have been here for years, which is fine, but the current system seems to expect newbies to be able to judge that intent, as well, or be punished for what would otherwise appear to be an equal response.  How can that possibly be a reasonable expectation?



milkyjoe on 22 January 2013

A lot of what is being discussed here comes under the banner of satire. Satire shouldn't be frowned upon, it's a useful way of pointing out a truth that nobody wants to acknowledge, and accepting that truth can make everyone better.

By pointing out that truth in a humorous way, you're actually being kinder and far politer than you would when simply saying it bluntly, so seeing calls to outlaw it doesn't make much sense to me.



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