bananaking21 said:
JWeinCom said:
bananaking21 said:
JayWood2010 said:
Just going to say it since no one else will. Sony All Stars sucks. Ok sucks might be too harsh but it isnt all that good either. I haaaated the beta. |
i played both PS all starts and SSB. and i really have no idea how people think SSB is better, the gameplay has more depth in all stars, the levels are more complex and the super system adds way more stategy to the game then SSB's knock out. all stars has much more strategy and depth into it then SSB.
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No. A game that has been out for all of a month does not have more depth and strategy than a game that's been being played, in one form or another, for a decade. Fighting games simply do not work like that, and even if PSASBR's mechanics did make it possible to have more depth than Smash, that depth isn't going to emerge without a dedicated competitive community.
The levels are more complex? I don't know if there are some hidden levels I missed or anything, but no. Few of PSASBR's level feature anything really dynamic or complex. Most stages are rather simplistic boxes where a character will pop out once in a while to attack the whole screen. The Buzz level is an interesting concept but most people seem to have realized that you're better off just continuing to fight and taking a pie to the face than actually playing the quiz game. Alden's tower is the only stage really doing anything unique. Compared to Rainbow Cruise, Pokemon Stadium 1/2, Castle Siege, Infinite Glacier, Brinstar, etc, SSB has a clear advantage in stages, not to mention a stage builder.
As for KOs, I've heard a lot of people say that the KO system requires more strategy than Smash, but no one has actually explained why. PSASBR is basically about hit confirming a basic attack into a super. Drake for example can pretty much guarantee a KO off of his barrel attack, and Raiden can guarante a KO off... just about anything, and so on. So basically, it works out like this.
To KO In Smash Bros- Build Up Damage by hitting opponent- land one of about 5 or so KO attacks.
To KO In PSASBR- Build up AP by hitting opponent- land one of about 5 or so set up attacks, then hit R2.
PSASBR has the added element of deciding whether to go for a lvl 1 or 2, or 3 (which kind of sucks for characters like Toro who don't have good level 2 or 3 supers) but it doesn't have anything like Smash's edgeguarding or stage control elements.
There's really nothing that makes PSASBR more complex or strategic than Smash especially not when the metagame is about a month old. Maybe *maybe* if a competitive scene emerges, people could find a lot of hidden death like they did with Melee, but until that happens it's not even close.
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as of now there is a community so your first paragraph doesnt make sense, it doesnt matter how long smash has been out. there are communities behind both games at the moment and that has nothing to do with depth
"PSASBR has the added element of deciding whether to go for a lvl 1 or 2, or 3"
thats what adds the strategy to it, it depends on how well you do combo's and collect your super that you decide how to play. and yes there are set up a KO with some attacks, but you forgot that there are other players fighting, the fact that you know when a player has a super and what type of super he has changes how you play completely. when playing against kratos for example you need to keep an eye on his super meeter, if he has the No1 super you need to aviod going head to head with him and try to attack him from far away or vertical attacks, that changes completely when he has a No2 super. now add to that that your playing against 2 other players and you need to change how you confront them and the way you play and your stategy changes as the match goes on, the way you play against a character doesnt only depend on who he chose as a character but also the way he uses his super, which also adds even more depth, getting a kill with your No1 super is no a way guratnee because as i said they want to ruin your combo's and supers for u, No2 supers have a much better chance at getting a kills but you can chose to gain more super to get to No3 and get more kills or use your number No2 and get kills faster.
the combo's are also longer+harder to do in PS all stars, there are more combo's and that also changes the way you play and interact with other fighters, you need to keep an eye out for other players trying to perform long combo's, not only do you need to perfom them you need to prevent other people from performing them. you also need to keep an eye out for the best (or second best guy to you) in the server, and try to perform your supers on him, even if its not the super your wanted to perform. there is so much you can to do to win a game, and i just dont see that in SSB, to each there own though
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Actually, it makes perfect sense. Communities have EVERYTHING to do with depth. ANY game (and not just video games) evolve as time passes. Look at the NFL for an example. 50 years ago, the game was far different than it was today. Why is it so different? Because players and coaches analyzed the game and found new tactics and strategies to use. Then, their opponents had to adjust to these new strategies and find ways to combat them. The more you explore the possibilities, the more things change.
For example, in Melee, high level play originally consisted of players rolling around and doing Smash attacks. Eventually, certain players discovered tactics like dash dancing, l canceling, wave dashing, shffling, waveshining, and so on so forth. Take a look at early games of Brawl and recent games of Brawl and you'll see that there is a lot more depth. Things like glidetossing or Ice Climbers infinite grabs were discovered, people got better at using their characters abilities, created frame traps, smart ways to apply pressure, and so on so forth.
To put it simply, the first time you played PSASBR did you know all you know now about it? Probably not. As you went on, you became better and your strategies evolved and became more complex. That happens to games as a whole as a community plays the game and shares their knowledge with others.
What you mentioned about PSASBR more or less still applies to Smash. Certain attacks are going to KO at certain percentages and not at others. For example if I'm playing as ZSS against Snake, he's going to be able to KO me at about 105%ish with his Utilt, so I know I need to avoid that, which is no different than approaching Kratos from above when he has a lvl 1 super (although honestly his lvl 1 has a slow start up that I really have no problems going straight at him when he has a lvl 1). You try to avoid certain moves at certain times in each game. And getting supers actually can be pretty much guaranteed by certain moves. Unless someone else is right on top of you, Sackboy's grab should lead to a kill 100% of the time, as should Raiden's counter attack. IF PSASBR actually develops into a competitive game, I'd expect to see lvl 1 supers used pretty much only after a set up attack has been hit confirmed or as a punishment for a whiffed attack. But a lot of supers, particularly level 2s and 3s, don't involve much strategy to use. Raiden's lvl 2 hits a large area on either side of him, so unless you're Radec or something, you have a pretty slim chance of escaping. Same with Parappa's lvl 2, or the power up types like Big Daddy or Fat Princess. Level three supers are for the most part completely unavoidable. The only strategy to avoiding getting killed by Sackboy's level 3 super is slapping the controller out of your friend's hand.
Same thing goes for killing people. In Smash, if you're playing a timed battle, you'd want to pick out the character with the highest damage percentage to kill them, and if you know the player who has the most kills (SSB has an optional score counter. To the best of my memory, PSASBR does not in its basic time mode) you can target them to take away points. In stock mode (set number of lives) you'll often want to target the player who has the most lives. Like PSASBR your strategy is going to change depending on who you're using and who your opponent is using. Squirtle is generally going to want to play aggressively against Meta Knight and take advantage of his must faster ground attacks and grab range, while Squirtle will want to keep a character like Donkey Kong in the air where he can be juggled and can't take advantage of his powerful smash attacks.
PSASBR has combos, so that's nice. However, it's lacking in a lot of the stage control mechanics that lead to much of the strategy in Brawl. In Brawl, you get KOed by being knocked off of a stage, but even when an attack does not KO you, you have to work to get back to the stage. A smart player will give you a really hard time resseting your position (going from a disadvantaged position to a neurtal position i.e. from above your opponent to neutral ground). Controlling certain parts of the stage is very important, and adds another element to the game play. Edgeguarding (fighting off the edges or beneath the stage) is another huge part of Brawl that lends it more depth.
Brawl also has a wider array of mobility options, and overall deeper mechanics. PSASBR features no dashing, limited aerial mobility, no spot dodging, no DI that I'm aware of, and so on so forth. I could go into more detail, but to make a long story short, I feel very limited in how I can approach my opponents with most of the cast. Raiden is one of the few that actually has more than one decent way to get close to another character. Overall, Brawl's physics seem more flexible and offer more possibilities. This could be because they really are, or it could be that the game is just new and players will discover some crazy possibilities that I'm not seeing.
As of now though, Brawl is just a deeper game. There are more and more varied strategies that can be employed, more unique ways to use each character, and more wrinkles to the gameplay. Read up a bit on brawl or watch some high level matches and you'll probably see that. Like any game, PSASBR will evolve over time. I don't think it will ever become deeper than Brawl, but it's a possibility.
Of course, none of that really applies in Free For All games. Just too much going on for any really deep strategy to go on. 2vs2 and 1v1 are where the strategy is at.
