I just noticed something else.

I know that's BS. Here's the December estimations from VGC on NA, showing PS2 1 million behind the DS, 2.7m behind the Wii, and 3.3m behind the 360. I'm 105% positive that Ioi's not that far off-base.

360 12,526,758
Wii 11,904,795
DS 10,243,253
PS2 9,200,942
PS3 4,934,197
PSP 3,921,040
GCN 100,719
Xbox 86,124
GBA 34,715

And looking at it worldwide makes the DS and Wii only further ahead of the PS2 (360 loses some of its lead, but it's still pretty far ahead too).

That right there proves that Sony's trying some serious BS.

thetonestarr, thx for those numbers, it just shows that the PS console family is still selling more software then any other company.

Plus you can't blame the Nintendo fans, they got their asses spanked in the market for 2 generations. During those two generations Sony sold more home consoles then the entire Nintendo home console market ever.

Sadly, in the real world revenue doesn't equal profit.

Wonder who won the highest hardware losses for December.

Griffin said: thetonestarr, thx for those numbers, it just shows that the PS console family is still selling more software then any other company. Plus you can't blame the Nintendo fans, they got their asses spanked in the market for 2 generations. During those two generations Sony sold more home consoles then the entire Nintendo home console market ever.

 Are you paying ANY attention at all? The numbers show that the PS console family is selling far below Nintendo.

 

12 million + 10 million = 22 million Nintendo software sold.

9 million + 5 million + 4 million = 18 million Sony software sold.

mmnin said: I can't believe that you made a topic like this on a forum that is known for its user knowledge on the meaning of sales and numbers in this industry.

He didn't. He made it on VGchartz.

People here seem to think that knowing the difference between revenue and profit gives them an understanding of economics. Most people here have probably never even heard of Adam Smith, much less read his work.

And to those flaming Sony for their spin-doctoring: what did you expect? That a company would highlight the numbers that suggest they are doing badly? And you call the OP dumb!

Profits are obviously what is needed to appease shareholders, but there are many industries with high revenues that sustain frequent losses (e.g. Hollywood studios, football clubs). Even though they are incurring heavy losses, an increase in cashflow through the business is good for a company like Sony. Is revenue as important as profit or units sold? No. Is it still worth pointing out? Yes.

 

It's not that they're spin doctoring. It's that they're spin surgeoning. They're not just tweaking the numbers to look better for them - they're all-out changing them!

thetonestarr said: Griffin said: thetonestarr, thx for those numbers, it just shows that the PS console family is still selling more software then any other company. Plus you can't blame the Nintendo fans, they got their asses spanked in the market for 2 generations. During those two generations Sony sold more home consoles then the entire Nintendo home console market ever. Are you paying ANY attention at all? The numbers show that the PS console family is selling far below Nintendo.   12 million + 10 million = 22 million Nintendo software sold. 9 million + 5 million + 4 million = 18 million Sony software sold.

 I'm talking about home consoles, not handhelds.

Griffin said: thetonestarr, thx for those numbers, it just shows that the PS console family is still selling more software then any other company. Plus you can't blame the Nintendo fans, they got their asses spanked in the market for 2 generations. During those two generations Sony sold more home consoles then the entire Nintendo home console market ever.

Is this enough of a reason to ban this clown? 

Please?

Pretty pretty please? 

Avinash_Tyagi said: Revenue isn't the same as profit Profit is revenue minus cost

Jandre002, you are wrong.

As Avinash says, revenue isn't profit.

If Sony sells playstation but loses 50$ for every playstation sold, the cannot have any profit.

Nintendo, instead, has 100$ profit on each Wii sold, making great profit.

Why does everyone automaticly assume that the losses on the PS3 can't be compensated by profits on the PSP and PS2? Everyone immediatly states that Sony must lose hundreds on every PS3 sold although there have been many advances in producing the PS3 in a way more price effective way.

We don't even have a clue about how much they make on the PSP and PS2. The production processes on these machines has been perfected so much that the profit on each unit could be beyond our wildest dreams. I am going to make a really secure and low estimate and say they make about 25 dollars on the PSP and 30 on the PS2. I am putting the PS3 at a 150 dollar loss.

Combined with software sales I don't think that Sony did such a bad job after all. They at least didn't get the worst revenue off all 3 manufacturers because that would have been some bad news. I assume that everyone agrees that less revenue means a smaller chance of profit right?

One thing is for sure, Nintendo made the most profit lately and I just wonder who made a bigger loss this year, Sony or Microsoft... Gentlemen, place your bets!

Edit: can we ban Parokki for insulting people with a different opinion and having the guts to even get them banned for it? I am not seriously trying to get him banned, just kicking him in the nuts. He should respect people with a different opinion and in all honesty, Ninty did get it's ass kicked by Sony in the last 2 generations. No reason to request a ban.