By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - What do you believe in: Fate, Coincidence, or Choice?

 

What do you believe in?

Fate 17 28.33%
 
Coincidence 13 21.67%
 
Choice 30 50.00%
 
Total:60
JayWood2010 said:
I personally believe in choice and feel the other two are a bad way of thinking. I will continue to do what I can and chose how I live life rather than listening to other people. You will have a choice almost on every event that you do. Sometimes things are caused by multiple people and then you will rely on them but even then they have a choice.


I believe  in action and consequence. Choice implies foresight, choice permits the limitless blame of others for your own actions, and choice also permits forced responsiblity for actions that are not our own. Because of that choice is a paradoxical tool used for assigning blame for the limitation or limitless number of actions one can committ to in a certain situation. In essence, its a moral descriptor for action and consequence, which is not aware of and does not care about those moral implications for ones actions.



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

Around the Network

The poll is wrong. It assumes Fate and choice are separate from each other.



Jay520 said:
JoeTheBro said:
I don't believe in time. Therfore if there isn't a future or past, there is no fate or choice. Guess I'm a coincidence guy. However I'm not retarded so I act like there is free will.


How can you not believe in time? Do you not believe that there was a period before now? And that there will be a period afterwards? Without time, movement, change, etc would be impossible.

Time doesn't exist, its theoretical. Time is a measure to show change in energy over a given plain. In that respect time is a construct used to describe that change in a linear fashion and is therefore not real.



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

Fifaguy360 said:
The poll is wrong. It assumes Fate and choice are separate from each other.


How, in your estimation, are fate and choice not mutually exclusive?



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

kaneada said:
Fifaguy360 said:
The poll is wrong. It assumes Fate and choice are separate from each other.


How, in your estimation, are fate and choice not mutually exclusive?


Doesn't require estimation. Just think about it.

Fate is a collection of choices in a time frame known prior to their happening. The fact that they (the choices) are known doesn't prevent them from being independant nor free.



Around the Network

Fate and choice.

you work to get what you want but you don't always get what you want because it was not meant for you.
what I go through in life is for a reason that might not always effect the way I live but also the way others live.

everything has a reason whether we understand it at the time or not so I do not believe in coincidence



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

Fifaguy360 said:
kaneada said:
Fifaguy360 said:
The poll is wrong. It assumes Fate and choice are separate from each other.


How, in your estimation, are fate and choice not mutually exclusive?


Doesn't require estimation. Just think about it.

Fate is a collection of choices in a time frame known prior to their happening. The fact that they (the choices) are known doesn't prevent them from being independant nor free.

Intersting perspective...two assumptions I question:

A) Time exists and is, in and of itself, a real thing.

B) That all choices are known to something or someone making all possible outcomes predicatable.

Neither of those things can be possible without making the assumptions that they exist and then defining those assumptions to highly descriminative criteria where they would loose context, leading me to assumption C:

C) A choice is not a choice if it is known to someone or something, that outcome is absolute through influence of that someone or something, and can't be changed due to the the knowlege and influence of that someone or something. This makes choice an illusion and therefore not real, making both fate and choice mutually exlcusive concepts. 



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

kaneada said:
Fifaguy360 said:
kaneada said:
Fifaguy360 said:
The poll is wrong. It assumes Fate and choice are separate from each other.


How, in your estimation, are fate and choice not mutually exclusive?


Doesn't require estimation. Just think about it.

Fate is a collection of choices in a time frame known prior to their happening. The fact that they (the choices) are known doesn't prevent them from being independant nor free.

Intersting perspective...two assumptions I question:

A) Time exists and is, in and of itself, a real thing.

B) That all choices are known to something or someone making all possible outcomes predicatable.

Neither of those things can be possible without making the assumptions that they exist and then defining those assumptions to highly descriminative criteria where they would loose context, leading me to assumption C:

C) A choice is not a choice if it is known to someone or something, that outcome is absolute through influence of that someone or something, and can't be changed due to the the knowlege and influence of that someone or something. This makes choice an illusion and therefore not real, making both fate and choice mutually exlcusive concepts. 

A) Time does exist. It is an obserable phenomenon.

B) It doesn't matter if all choices are known to someone or not. You still will perform a string of choices from now until 10 minutes later (unless you died). You don't know what those choices will be until you choose to do them.

C) "A choice is not a choice if it is known to someone or something". False. Knowing something will happen is not the same as forcing that something to happen. Example: Someone knew you were going to respond to my message in these exact words. Was your choice an illusion? Did you want to make it out of your own volition? Or were you forced?



Fifaguy360 said:
kaneada said:
Fifaguy360 said:
kaneada said:
Fifaguy360 said:
The poll is wrong. It assumes Fate and choice are separate from each other.


How, in your estimation, are fate and choice not mutually exclusive?


Doesn't require estimation. Just think about it.

Fate is a collection of choices in a time frame known prior to their happening. The fact that they (the choices) are known doesn't prevent them from being independant nor free.

Intersting perspective...two assumptions I question:

A) Time exists and is, in and of itself, a real thing.

B) That all choices are known to something or someone making all possible outcomes predicatable.

Neither of those things can be possible without making the assumptions that they exist and then defining those assumptions to highly descriminative criteria where they would loose context, leading me to assumption C:

C) A choice is not a choice if it is known to someone or something, that outcome is absolute through influence of that someone or something, and can't be changed due to the the knowlege and influence of that someone or something. This makes choice an illusion and therefore not real, making both fate and choice mutually exlcusive concepts. 

A) Time does exist. It is an obserable phenomenon.

B) It doesn't matter if all choices are known to someone or not. You still will perform a string of choices from now until 10 minutes later (unless you died). You don't know what those choices will be until you choose to do them.

C) "A choice is not a choice if it is known to someone or something". False. Knowing something will happen is not the same as forcing that something to happen. Example: Someone knew you were going to respond to my message in these exact words. Was your choice an illusion? Did you want to make it out of your own volition? Or were you forced?

A) False, time is a unit of measure used to quantify the the change in energy over a given plane. It is a created tool, not a real phenomenon.

B) Exactly my point. If fate exists, then something or someone has to know the outcomes. If all things are predetermined then there has to be a source of predetermination, presumably an entity at a future point in time, otherwise fate can't be a real phenomenon. You and I as a finite human being can't know that and can't prove that to any reasonable standard.

C) Please don't quote the first 14 words of something to frame your argument. If you apply the next two qualifications in that sentence the concept of your entity from the future that knows all outcomes becomes a bit absurd.

Sorry to pull the Athiest card here, but when you assert that something unknowable is real, then the burden of proof is on you. So far you've not made a convincing argument. You've not shown evidence that choice is real. You have also failed to provide evidence that fate is real; therefore you can't claim the lack of mutual exclusivity between the two concepts without heavy assumptions that can't be tested. As a matter of fact, I would go so far to say that both are fictious concepts. Action and Consequence (cause and effect) is something that can actually be observed and tested. 



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

Considering how easily people are fooled by the illusion of choice in TWD I choose to believe in probalistic determinism. However I'll still share in the illusion of making choices.