What do you believe in: Fate, Coincidence, or Choice?

[kaneada]

Fifaguy360 said:

kaneada said:

Fifaguy360 said:

kaneada said:

Fifaguy360 said:
The poll is wrong. It assumes Fate and choice are separate from each other.

How, in your estimation, are fate and choice not mutually exclusive?

Doesn't require estimation. Just think about it.

Fate is a collection of choices in a time frame known prior to their happening. The fact that they (the choices) are known doesn't prevent them from being independant nor free.

Intersting perspective...two assumptions I question:

A) Time exists and is, in and of itself, a real thing.

B) That all choices are known to something or someone making all possible outcomes predicatable.

Neither of those things can be possible without making the assumptions that they exist and then defining those assumptions to highly descriminative criteria where they would loose context, leading me to assumption C:

C) A choice is not a choice if it is known to someone or something, that outcome is absolute through influence of that someone or something, and can't be changed due to the the knowlege and influence of that someone or something. This makes choice an illusion and therefore not real, making both fate and choice mutually exlcusive concepts. 

A) Time does exist. It is an obserable phenomenon.

B) It doesn't matter if all choices are known to someone or not. You still will perform a string of choices from now until 10 minutes later (unless you died). You don't know what those choices will be until you choose to do them.

C) "A choice is not a choice if it is known to someone or something". False. Knowing something will happen is not the same as forcing that something to happen. Example: Someone knew you were going to respond to my message in these exact words. Was your choice an illusion? Did you want to make it out of your own volition? Or were you forced?

A) False, time is a unit of measure used to quantify the the change in energy over a given plane. It is a created tool, not a real phenomenon.

B) Exactly my point. If fate exists, then something or someone has to know the outcomes. If all things are predetermined then there has to be a source of predetermination, presumably an entity at a future point in time, otherwise fate can't be a real phenomenon. You and I as a finite human being can't know that and can't prove that to any reasonable standard.

C) Please don't quote the first 14 words of something to frame your argument. If you apply the next two qualifications in that sentence the concept of your entity from the future that knows all outcomes becomes a bit absurd.

Sorry to pull the Athiest card here, but when you assert that something unknowable is real, then the burden of proof is on you. So far you've not made a convincing argument. You've not shown evidence that choice is real. You have also failed to provide evidence that fate is real; therefore you can't claim the lack of mutual exclusivity between the two concepts without heavy assumptions that can't be tested. As a matter of fact, I would go so far to say that both are fictious concepts. Action and Consequence (cause and effect) is something that can actually be observed and tested.