By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Investors Thread

sethnintendo said:
OceanJ said:
Otakumegane said:
Now should be a good time to buy...


If you're at all confident in the Wii U catching on and the 3DS rebounding with a Pokemon release...there hasn't been a better time to buy Nintendo than right now, since right before the Wii was released.

What does the 3DS have to rebound from?  It already rebounded in 2011 with a price cut and release of a few main Nintendo IPs.

Well Ninty fans are hesitant to recognize it, but when you look at 3DS's sales in 2011 vs 2012 calendar years you see that:

1) It only had 10 months on sale in 2011, launched Feb 26, 2011

2) Despite this, it sold 600k fewer units in the U.S. in 2012, than in 2011

3) Similarly it sold 3k less units in Europe with more months on sale

4) In Q3 alone, globally 3DS sales were down from 7.9 Million unit sales to 6.38 million, 2011 Holidays outsold 2012's by 1.5 million consoles.

5) The weekly average sales rate of 3DS in 2011 was 301k over a 10 month period from Feb 26 - Dec. 31.  The weekly average sales rate for all of 2012 was 264k.  A 36k per week drop-off.

6) The only reason it was up from 2011, from 13.25 million to 13.75m was because 2011 only saw 10 months of sales availability, otherwise we'd see a YoY decrease this year.

Some have argued that Pokemon in 2013 will put the 3DS back on track.  Some point to the fact it's still "outpacing the DS" over a similar 97 week time-period.  But as to that last point, I have to reason that 3DS sales when it launched...leveraged the "blue ocean" of the DS owner market to sell to, so it essentially just stood on the shoulders of the DS.

Trust me nobody wants to see the 3DS reverse the downward trend of 2012 more than me.  I just recognize the facts is all.



Around the Network
Tarumon said:
Purely from a buttomline perspective, not meeting unit sales projections:

1. For Wii and DS would be horribly bad, due to assured profits gone, so if they beat internal projections, nothing but upside.

2. For 3DS, bad but since it just came into profitability in Sept quarter, it's hard to imagine too big of a per unit profit there.

3. For Wii U, I don't think this is going to have as nasty a sting. If you are losing money per unit, selling less results in less losses not more. My personal guess on the Reggie 1 software sale claim is that he told the truth, except, Nintendo guessed wrong on how many Basic units would be sold. It is all but obvious that the delux package was a better value. Basic on the other hand, most likely was counted on to produce some profits or produce less losses. We all know by now, whites did not sell well at all.

More important than today's price movement is the seemingly agreed upon targetby BOJ to explicitly pursue a 2% inflation target. This means all out money printing as the nation is really deflationary. Yen has potential to shoot past 95 to the dollar before any meaningful correction takes place. The most important date in 2013 isnt Pokemon release, but 3/31/2013. If Yen can close above 90, this singular event will overshadow any operational setbacks.

I like your theory on the Reggie 1 game sale claim.  Hadn't thought about it like that.  Also great point about Wii U selling for a loss...selling less of them sort of helps.  But then again, I'd have to believe selling more translates to more game sales, a higher installed-base, and recovering manufacturing & sales expenses, so probably on balance a Wii U sold adds to profitability.



Okay, I see your points but the 3DS didn't end down YOY (I believe I am correct). Sure it barely squeaked by on the positive side for 2012 but there really wasn't that much pushing it in Americas/Europe this holiday season. They released Paper Mario and a few other games. If they didn't release Animal Crossing in Japan then the 3DS would have been down YOY. If they released Animal Crossing WW (world wide not wild world!) then there would have been better numbers in Americas/Europe. Sure Animal Crossing in Japan is a bigger deal (for hand helds) but it has a decent following in USA and Europe. I fear nothing for Nintendo when looking at the 2013 line up for the 3DS



sethnintendo said:

Okay, I see your points but the 3DS didn't end down YOY (I believe I am correct). Sure it barely squeaked by on the positive side for 2012 but there really wasn't that much pushing it in Americas/Europe this holiday season. They released Paper Mario and a few other games. If they didn't release Animal Crossing in Japan then the 3DS would have been down YOY. If they released Animal Crossing WW then there would have been better numbers in Americas/Europe. Sure Animal Crossing in Japan is a bigger deal (for hand helds) but it has a decent following in USA and Europe. I fear nothing for Nintendo when looking at the 2013 line up for the 3DS


You're right it was up YoY, from 13.25m to 13.75.  But it's only 'cause 2011 was a handi-capped sales year.  What I'm saying is at the rate it sold at in 2011, of 301k / week, if it saw a full 12 months of sales like it had in 2012, would have sold 15,652,000 units...absolutely crushing this years sales numbers.

Weighted, 3DS is down big in 2012.



OceanJ said:
sethnintendo said:

Okay, I see your points but the 3DS didn't end down YOY (I believe I am correct). Sure it barely squeaked by on the positive side for 2012 but there really wasn't that much pushing it in Americas/Europe this holiday season. They released Paper Mario and a few other games. If they didn't release Animal Crossing in Japan then the 3DS would have been down YOY. If they released Animal Crossing WW then there would have been better numbers in Americas/Europe. Sure Animal Crossing in Japan is a bigger deal (for hand helds) but it has a decent following in USA and Europe. I fear nothing for Nintendo when looking at the 2013 line up for the 3DS


You're right it was up YoY, from 13.25m to 13.75.  But it's only 'cause 2011 was a handi-capped sales year.  What I'm saying is at the rate it sold at in 2011, of 301k / week, if it saw a full 12 months of sales, would have sold 15,652,000 units...absolutely crushing this years sales numbers.

Weighted, 3DS is down big in 2012.

Probably one can attribute this with a lack of big releases for the 3DS during the holiday season for Europe and Americas.



Around the Network
OceanJ said:
sethnintendo said:
OceanJ said:
Otakumegane said:
Now should be a good time to buy...


If you're at all confident in the Wii U catching on and the 3DS rebounding with a Pokemon release...there hasn't been a better time to buy Nintendo than right now, since right before the Wii was released.

What does the 3DS have to rebound from?  It already rebounded in 2011 with a price cut and release of a few main Nintendo IPs.

Well Ninty fans are hesitant to recognize it, but when you look at 3DS's sales in 2011 vs 2012 calendar years you see that:

1) It only had 10 months on sale in 2011, launched Feb 26, 2011

2) Despite this, it sold 600k fewer units in the U.S. in 2012, than in 2011

3) Similarly it sold 3k less units in Europe with more months on sale

4) In Q3 alone, globally 3DS sales were down from 7.9 Million unit sales to 6.38 million, 2011 Holidays outsold 2012's by 1.5 million consoles.

5) The weekly average sales rate of 3DS in 2011 was 301k over a 10 month period from Feb 26 - Dec. 31.  The weekly average sales rate for all of 2012 was 264k.  A 36k per week drop-off.

6) The only reason it was up from 2011, from 13.25 million to 13.75m was because 2011 only saw 10 months of sales availability, otherwise we'd see a YoY decrease this year.

Some have argued that Pokemon in 2013 will put the 3DS back on track.  Some point to the fact it's still "outpacing the DS" over a similar 97 week time-period.  But as to that last point, I have to reason that 3DS sales when it launched...leveraged the "blue ocean" of the DS owner market to sell to, so it essentially just stood on the shoulders of the DS.

Trust me nobody wants to see the 3DS reverse the downward trend of 2012 more than me.  I just recognize the facts is all.


Dont forget though the PSP was a much more formidable opponent to the DS than Vita is to the 3DS. On a launch aligned basis, PSP beat DS for a good part of their respective first year, what allowed DS to win that race was one after one after one of software releases.  PSP software release peaked in 2007, DS continued to pump out first and 3rd party titles.  3DS's 2013 software lineup just seems to me to be so solid that it might even win marketshare from PSP userbase.



sethnintendo said:

Okay, I see your points but the 3DS didn't end down YOY (I believe I am correct). Sure it barely squeaked by on the positive side for 2012 but there really wasn't that much pushing it in Americas/Europe this holiday season. They released Paper Mario and a few other games. If they didn't release Animal Crossing in Japan then the 3DS would have been down YOY. If they released Animal Crossing WW then there would have been better numbers in Americas/Europe. Sure Animal Crossing in Japan is a bigger deal (for hand helds) but it has a decent following in USA and Europe. I fear nothing for Nintendo when looking at the 2013 line up for the 3DS

True, the only software that pushed hardware sales on the western market was New Super Mario Bros 2, Paper Mario and arguably Kid Icarus and Kingdom Hearts.

2013 has a much more robust software release schedule - Fire Emblem, Etrian Odyssey, Monster Hunter, Animal Crossing and Pokémon - that is what is announced, more is to come (Professor Layton and Ace Attorney example), very good line-up. NOA and EUR will have YOY growth just based on the above alone. Add Japan to the mix with Dragon Quest VII, Professor Layton and Monster 4 - killer year

Wii U on the other hand, Nintendo should show a new Nintendo Direct soon re-affirming what comes in Q4 with proper release dates (Monster Hunter, Raymand Legends, Lego City Undercover, Wii Fit U).



I actually don't think 3DS will sell that much more in 2013, it'll be about the same despite Pokemon X/Y.

But I think y'know, there's still room in the marketplace for 90-100 million 3DS' in the smartphone/tablet world ... and that's not chump change. There's a lot of profit to be made, especially if Nintendo can squeeze Sony completely out of the Japanese handheld market.

Particularily in the West, the 3DS is never going to perform like the DS did, but they can still sell a decent amount of hardware/software. 

The 3DS should be the best selling game platform worldwide for next couple of years fairly easily IMO. Playstation 4 would be the main threat to that, but we're likely talking about a system that will start fairly slow with a $400 or more price point and probably not have a ton of inventory until spring 2014. 

I would be much more worried about the Wii U. I don't think Nintendo actually really known what they're doing in the console side for several years now, Wii U is not something that just happened with some overnight mistakes. I think in actuality Nintendo is out badly out of touch with where the console market is today. 



Soundwave said:

I actually don't think 3DS will sell that much more in 2013, it'll be about the same despite Pokemon X/Y.

But I think y'know, there's still room in the marketplace for 90-100 million 3DS' in the smartphone/tablet world ... and that's not chump change. There's a lot of profit to be made, especially if Nintendo can squeeze Sony completely out of the Japanese handheld market.

Particularily in the West, the 3DS is never going to perform like the DS did, but they can still sell a decent amount of hardware/software. 

The 3DS should be the best selling game platform worldwide for next couple of years fairly easily IMO. Playstation 4 would be the main threat to that, but we're likely talking about a system that will start fairly slow with a $400 or more price point and probably not have a ton of inventory until spring 2014. 

I would be much more worried about the Wii U. I don't think Nintendo actually really known what they're doing in the console side for several years now, Wii U is not something that just happened with some overnight mistakes. I think in actuality Nintendo is out badly out of touch with where the console market is today. 

What console would you rather they'd launched instead of the Wii U?  I'm just curious, were you imagining something specific?

So far I like the Wii U's design philosophy, I like the potential that the GamePad brings to gaming.  I just don't think Nintendo has executed very well with the release.  I think they launched it before it was ready, for sales reasons.  And I think they may have bitten off more than they can chew.

From an investment perspective, I'm gonna need to see some very big games released for Wii U soon, otherwise I'll have to sell my shares and just be happy playing Nintendo games and not worrying about the business.



Soundwave said:

I would be much more worried about the Wii U. I don't think Nintendo actually really known what they're doing in the console side for several years now, Wii U is not something that just happened with some overnight mistakes. I think in actuality Nintendo is out badly out of touch with where the console market is today. 

I suppose dominating the 360 and PS3 (except last 2 years when they decreased/ceased their Wii support for upcoming Wii U support) doesn't count for anything.  Yep, Nintendo is out touch with the home console market.  The Wii didn't deserve to pass the NES in sales and become the number 1 home console produced by Nintendo.  Nintendo has seen declining sales in the home console market since the NES days and now you diss their recent strategy?  Okay

You are out of touch.