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Forums - Gaming - While NRA Was on TV Talking About Need for More Guns, Another Mass Shooting was Occurring in Pennsylvania

LinkVPit said:

The fact that you need a gun to stay safe must be a trigger to say something isn't right?

And yes people are responsible for the actions, but would that tragedy have happened or been less if he had a knife or other weapon? Chances are no or less deaths at least.

We have gun laws in the UK and last time I checked we haven't had a gun massacre. How many have the US had?

Nope, I view it as a signature that I live in a free society and I have individual power over my own life; the world's not a utopia. How safe would you have been 150 years ago when you were considered a subject of the British Empire? Probably very safe, but at the same time I wouldn't have considered you a free person. The only reason you live how you are today is beause if Britain became an oligarchy again the U.S (and other countries) would dissaprove and voice it through relations of all kinds, because of our ridiculous international policy to be in everybody elses business at the expense of our own people. 

You already agreed that it's impossible to get rid of guns in the U.S (30% of the world's arms), so the discussion is kind of moot. 

Anyway, my safety is quite fine. The homicide rate of my county is nearly zero, and the violent crime rate is much less than, say, London's. Why is this? Because most people have guns and a burglary is not worth dieing for. 



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KHlover said:
VGKing said:
Guns aren't the problem. Just look at marijuana. Just because that is illegal, it doesn't mean people can't get their hands on it. Banning guns would mean only criminals would have access to guns...that is bad.

What we need is better mental health services so people don't have that urge to kill in the first place.

I think gun control does work, just not in the USA. If gun control is to be implemented, this has to happen before the guns are in circulation. I think Germany is a pretty good example. Gun Control was implemented after WW2, in that time the german firearms were collected and destroyed, as a result only the Allies had access to guns, not even the police had any. Of course gun control worked. In the following years gun control was reduced, more and more guns came into circulation, but still with much regulation. As a result it is much harder to obtain illegal guns in Germany than in the US and the legal ones are strictly regulated. Of course we still had massacres in Germany, but not as many as in the US. Also gun related accidents occur far less.

In the US far too many guns are in circulation to give gun control any chance to work, also most massacres were done with legal weapons anyways. Thus I completely agree with your bolded part, mental healthcare is the key.

TL;DR: Gun control can work, but only if it is implemented at the right time. Mental healthcare is far more important.


That's not really true. It is very possible for a country that already has guns in circulation to enact strict gun control measures, and for those measures to have a huge effect on violent crime in the long term:

Australia has much in common with the United States. It was initially settled by teeming masses — in its case, largely convicts — fleeing England. Its identity was forged in the populating of its vast, empty spaces. And today it retains a considerable frontier mentality, and a considerable amount of ranching and hunting.

 But the similarities end when it comes to guns. While gun ownership has been a part of Australians’ way of life, they have a much more utilitarian view of their purpose. 

 So, when a gunman killed 35 people in 1996 with a semiautomatic rifle in the tourist town of Port Arthur, on the island of Tasmania, the Australian people decided it was time for a change. 

A new law, backed by a conservative prime minister, divided firearms into five categories. Some of the deadliest assault-style weapons and large ammunition clips are now all but impossible for individuals to lawfully own.

Firearms are subject to a strict permitting process, and dealers are required to record sales, which are tracked by the national and territorial governments. What’s more, the law encouraged people to sell their firearms back to the government, which purchased and destroyed about 700,000 of them.

The results are hard to argue with. According to a Harvard University study, 13 gun massacres (in which four or more people died) occurred in the 18 years before the law was enacted. In the 16 years since there has been none. Zero.

The overall firearm homicide rate dropped from 0.43 per 100,000 in the seven years before the law to 0.25 in the seven years after. By 2009, the rate had dropped further, to just 0.1 per 100,000, or one per million.

In the USA, the 2009 firearm homicide rate was 3.3 per 100,000, some 33 times higher than Australia’s.

There are, to be sure, some significant differences between Australia and the United States. Australia has 3million guns; America has roughly 300 million. The U.S. has greater constitutional protections for keeping and bearing arms. And the gun lobby in Australia is nowhere near as powerful as the National Rifle Association is in the U.S.

But the Australian experience demonstrates what can be accomplished if a people gets serious about gun violence.

The key is not merely to adopt new gun laws, but to undergo a cultural shift. Similar shifts have occurred around such issues as smoking and excessive drinking, especially when driving is involved.

The early signs are that the massacre in Newtown, Conn., will cause a significant push for tighter gun restrictions, which the White House endorsed on Tuesday.

As the debate takes shape in coming weeks, lawmakers would do well to focus on the successes in Australia. That country has shown how tighter gun laws, and sensible attitudes about the role of guns in society, can make a real difference.

We could learn much from our friends down under.

 

http://www.sheboyganpress.com/article/20121221/SHE06/312210143/Editorial-Australian-gun-control-holds-lessons-U-S-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

 

As you can see, not only do gun control laws help reduce violent crimes, they can be enacted in a country where the guns had already been in circulation for centuries, and have some seriously positive effects.


Heck, the United States violent crime rate has actually been dropping ever since the Brady Bill law was implemented. Gun control laws work.

 



killerzX said:
LinkVPit said:
killerzX said:
sc94597 said:

I think this is how things should go.

-- Restrict military grade weapons to people who join a militia: either the official (state regulated one - National guard) or an unofficial militia.

-- Make sure the common population has access to basic weapons without joining an organized militia: handguns, basic rifles, etc.

This will do two things. Limit the number of weapons out there under irresponsible ownership, and encourage responsible owners to join militias, which is a good thing and is promoted by our constitution.

Not only would this decrease the chances of a lunatic accessing weapons, but it will reinstate the proper respect for human lives and weapon use that our nations (as in its definition of peoples - U.S is not a nation-state) once had.

This would be smart legislation that works, and it would transition the U.S into something a bit more like Switzerland.

The only reason why nobody would push for this is because liberals want to ban guns entirely and neo-conservatives want to centralize the military power within the standing military. The paleo-conservatives, known as the tea party, would be a minority in this battle. So the next best thing is to keep things how they are until the dust settles and proper judgement can be made without extreme emotions influencing decisions.


well the thing is any able body person can be a militia.... me with my guns is a militia. so i agree. i should be able to keep my Ak-47, AK-74, SCAR-17s, Glock 19 gen 4, Glock 19, Glock 17, Henry Repeater, AR-15, Mossberg 500, and smith and wesson .38 special. i just need more ammo, i only have ~1500 7.62 rounds, 700 .308 rounds, 1000 9mm rounds, 1200 5.45 rounds, 300 5.56. im running low

Is that really your gun collection?

That alone is reason for some form of gun control/law. Do you really need all them weapons, the answer is no.

No wonder you defend gun rights so much, your a fucking gun nut!

not all are mine: my personal collection is: Ak-47, SCAR 17s, Glock 19 gen 4, and i forgot about my Ruger 10-22.

the other guns are my older brothers: AK-74, Glock 17, Henry repeater, smith and wesson .38.

younger brother: AR-15, Glock 19, mossberg 500.

its called a bill of rights, not a bill of needs.

how i spend my money is none of your concern.

why do you need a car that can go over 65 mph, why do you need a home bigger than 300 square feet, why do you need so may video games.

 

what i chose to buy with my own money, i up to me. and what can i say i like diversity. so i buy as much as i can. why would i only choose one, when there are so many good ones to chose from. some are good for only limited specific things, i need one for every occasion.

So to keep yourself 'safe' you need 2 assault rifles, a handgun and a smith and wesson? Who are you protecting yourself from? A bloody invasion?

Also comparing a car to a gun really? I buy games coz they're fun and oh yeah I can't go to a school and kill people with them!

I couldn't care less what you spend your money on. But 4-5 guns really?

You're the reason gun control will never happen in the US. You've commented or started many threads about guns and amazingly you want nothing to change about gun laws in america. I'm guessing your a member of the NRA?



LinkVPit said:

So to keep yourself 'safe' you need 2 assault rifles, a handgun and a smith and wesson? Who are you protecting yourself from? A bloody invasion?

That is the reason why the second amendment exists. 


"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives [only] moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks." - Thomas Jefferson



sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

The fact that you need a gun to stay safe must be a trigger to say something isn't right?

And yes people are responsible for the actions, but would that tragedy have happened or been less if he had a knife or other weapon? Chances are no or less deaths at least.

We have gun laws in the UK and last time I checked we haven't had a gun massacre. How many have the US had?

Nope, I view it as a signature that I live in a free society and I have individual power over my own life; the world's not a utopia. How safe would you have been 150 years ago when you were considered a subject of the British Empire? Probably very safe, but at the same time I wouldn't have considered you a free person. The only reason you live how you are today is beause if Britain became an oligarchy again the U.S (and other countries) would dissaprove and voice it through relations of all kinds, because of our ridiculous international policy to be in everybody elses business at the expense of our own people. 

You already agreed that it's impossible to get rid of guns in the U.S (30% of the world's arms), so the discussion is kind of moot. 

Anyway, my safety is quite fine. The homicide rate of my county is nearly zero, and the violent crime rate is much less than, say, London's. Why is this? Because most people have guns and a burglary is not worth dieing for. 

Well I live in a free society, I think they call them a democracy .You also live in one! And the 65 million who live here don't need one and those that do get a licence! If you bought that into the US it would be a start.



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nuckles87 said:
KHlover said:
VGKing said:
Guns aren't the problem. Just look at marijuana. Just because that is illegal, it doesn't mean people can't get their hands on it. Banning guns would mean only criminals would have access to guns...that is bad.

What we need is better mental health services so people don't have that urge to kill in the first place.

I think gun control does work, just not in the USA. If gun control is to be implemented, this has to happen before the guns are in circulation. I think Germany is a pretty good example. Gun Control was implemented after WW2, in that time the german firearms were collected and destroyed, as a result only the Allies had access to guns, not even the police had any. Of course gun control worked. In the following years gun control was reduced, more and more guns came into circulation, but still with much regulation. As a result it is much harder to obtain illegal guns in Germany than in the US and the legal ones are strictly regulated. Of course we still had massacres in Germany, but not as many as in the US. Also gun related accidents occur far less.

In the US far too many guns are in circulation to give gun control any chance to work, also most massacres were done with legal weapons anyways. Thus I completely agree with your bolded part, mental healthcare is the key.

TL;DR: Gun control can work, but only if it is implemented at the right time. Mental healthcare is far more important.


That's not really true. It is very possible for a country that already has guns in circulation to enact strict gun control measures, and for those measures to have a huge effect on violent crime in the long term:

Australia has much in common with the United States. It was initially settled by teeming masses — in its case, largely convicts — fleeing England. Its identity was forged in the populating of its vast, empty spaces. And today it retains a considerable frontier mentality, and a considerable amount of ranching and hunting.

 But the similarities end when it comes to guns. While gun ownership has been a part of Australians’ way of life, they have a much more utilitarian view of their purpose. 

 So, when a gunman killed 35 people in 1996 with a semiautomatic rifle in the tourist town of Port Arthur, on the island of Tasmania, the Australian people decided it was time for a change. 

A new law, backed by a conservative prime minister, divided firearms into five categories. Some of the deadliest assault-style weapons and large ammunition clips are now all but impossible for individuals to lawfully own.

Firearms are subject to a strict permitting process, and dealers are required to record sales, which are tracked by the national and territorial governments. What’s more, the law encouraged people to sell their firearms back to the government, which purchased and destroyed about 700,000 of them.

The results are hard to argue with. According to a Harvard University study, 13 gun massacres (in which four or more people died) occurred in the 18 years before the law was enacted. In the 16 years since there has been none. Zero.

The overall firearm homicide rate dropped from 0.43 per 100,000 in the seven years before the law to 0.25 in the seven years after. By 2009, the rate had dropped further, to just 0.1 per 100,000, or one per million.

In the USA, the 2009 firearm homicide rate was 3.3 per 100,000, some 33 times higher than Australia’s.

There are, to be sure, some significant differences between Australia and the United States. Australia has 3million guns; America has roughly 300 million. The U.S. has greater constitutional protections for keeping and bearing arms. And the gun lobby in Australia is nowhere near as powerful as the National Rifle Association is in the U.S.

But the Australian experience demonstrates what can be accomplished if a people gets serious about gun violence.

The key is not merely to adopt new gun laws, but to undergo a cultural shift. Similar shifts have occurred around such issues as smoking and excessive drinking, especially when driving is involved.

The early signs are that the massacre in Newtown, Conn., will cause a significant push for tighter gun restrictions, which the White House endorsed on Tuesday.

As the debate takes shape in coming weeks, lawmakers would do well to focus on the successes in Australia. That country has shown how tighter gun laws, and sensible attitudes about the role of guns in society, can make a real difference.

We could learn much from our friends down under.

 

http://www.sheboyganpress.com/article/20121221/SHE06/312210143/Editorial-Australian-gun-control-holds-lessons-U-S-?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

 

As you can see, not only do gun control laws help reduce violent crimes, they can be enacted in a country where the guns had already been in circulation for centuries, and have some seriously positive effects.


Heck, the United States violent crime rate has actually been dropping ever since the Brady Bill law was implemented. Gun control laws work.

 

Well, I did not know about this. Great example of working gun control laws, but after what must be the 3rd or 4th massacre in the last decade I really doubt a gun control law would work in the USA. If anything MORE guns are sold because people are afraid, the mentality of the US citizens doesn´t seem to work well with such a law. I think the weapons would only be hidden after being banned.



sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

So to keep yourself 'safe' you need 2 assault rifles, a handgun and a smith and wesson? Who are you protecting yourself from? A bloody invasion?

That is the reason why the second amendment exists. 


"As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives [only] moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun, therefore, be the constant companion to your walks." - Thomas Jefferson

Good to see theres faith in you military to stop an invasion! And i'm sure a bunch of gung-ho gun owners will help anything! 

Also that phrase basically says instead of playing football here's a gun! What a great message!



LinkVPit said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

The fact that you need a gun to stay safe must be a trigger to say something isn't right?

And yes people are responsible for the actions, but would that tragedy have happened or been less if he had a knife or other weapon? Chances are no or less deaths at least.

We have gun laws in the UK and last time I checked we haven't had a gun massacre. How many have the US had?

Nope, I view it as a signature that I live in a free society and I have individual power over my own life; the world's not a utopia. How safe would you have been 150 years ago when you were considered a subject of the British Empire? Probably very safe, but at the same time I wouldn't have considered you a free person. The only reason you live how you are today is beause if Britain became an oligarchy again the U.S (and other countries) would dissaprove and voice it through relations of all kinds, because of our ridiculous international policy to be in everybody elses business at the expense of our own people. 

You already agreed that it's impossible to get rid of guns in the U.S (30% of the world's arms), so the discussion is kind of moot. 

Anyway, my safety is quite fine. The homicide rate of my county is nearly zero, and the violent crime rate is much less than, say, London's. Why is this? Because most people have guns and a burglary is not worth dieing for. 

Well I live in a free society, I think they call them a democracy .You also live in one! And the 65 million who live here don't need one and those that do get a licence! If you bought that into the US it would be a start.

A democracy is bordered by mob rule, and democracies always self-destruct. Like I said, your country has had a history of oligarchy, what keeps it from reverting? Certainly not an unarmed populous. Just look at the censorship that happens in the UK. People get arrested for internet posts. I live in a constitutional republic, a governmental system in which the individual has power over his own life without the fear of the mob. Things have been changing recently, but I'm glad to say that we still have some time to preserve this before it is lost forever and I'll keep fighting to do so. 



sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

The fact that you need a gun to stay safe must be a trigger to say something isn't right?

And yes people are responsible for the actions, but would that tragedy have happened or been less if he had a knife or other weapon? Chances are no or less deaths at least.

We have gun laws in the UK and last time I checked we haven't had a gun massacre. How many have the US had?

Nope, I view it as a signature that I live in a free society and I have individual power over my own life; the world's not a utopia. How safe would you have been 150 years ago when you were considered a subject of the British Empire? Probably very safe, but at the same time I wouldn't have considered you a free person. The only reason you live how you are today is beause if Britain became an oligarchy again the U.S (and other countries) would dissaprove and voice it through relations of all kinds, because of our ridiculous international policy to be in everybody elses business at the expense of our own people. 

You already agreed that it's impossible to get rid of guns in the U.S (30% of the world's arms), so the discussion is kind of moot. 

Anyway, my safety is quite fine. The homicide rate of my county is nearly zero, and the violent crime rate is much less than, say, London's. Why is this? Because most people have guns and a burglary is not worth dieing for. 

Well I live in a free society, I think they call them a democracy .You also live in one! And the 65 million who live here don't need one and those that do get a licence! If you bought that into the US it would be a start.

A democracy is bordered by mob rule, and democracies always self-destruct. Like I said, your country has had a history of oligarchy, what keeps it from reverting? Certainly not an unarmed populous. Just look at the censorship that happens in the UK. People get arrested for internet posts. I live in a constitutional republic, a governmental system in which the individual has power over his own life without the fear of the mob. Things have been changing recently, but I'm glad to say that we still have some time to preserve this before it is lost forever and I'll keep fighting to do so. 


Sorry, what arseholes we are about arresting people over rascist tweets! But then again being racist is also ok in th US!



LinkVPit said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

The fact that you need a gun to stay safe must be a trigger to say something isn't right?

And yes people are responsible for the actions, but would that tragedy have happened or been less if he had a knife or other weapon? Chances are no or less deaths at least.

We have gun laws in the UK and last time I checked we haven't had a gun massacre. How many have the US had?

Nope, I view it as a signature that I live in a free society and I have individual power over my own life; the world's not a utopia. How safe would you have been 150 years ago when you were considered a subject of the British Empire? Probably very safe, but at the same time I wouldn't have considered you a free person. The only reason you live how you are today is beause if Britain became an oligarchy again the U.S (and other countries) would dissaprove and voice it through relations of all kinds, because of our ridiculous international policy to be in everybody elses business at the expense of our own people. 

You already agreed that it's impossible to get rid of guns in the U.S (30% of the world's arms), so the discussion is kind of moot. 

Anyway, my safety is quite fine. The homicide rate of my county is nearly zero, and the violent crime rate is much less than, say, London's. Why is this? Because most people have guns and a burglary is not worth dieing for. 

Well I live in a free society, I think they call them a democracy .You also live in one! And the 65 million who live here don't need one and those that do get a licence! If you bought that into the US it would be a start.

A democracy is bordered by mob rule, and democracies always self-destruct. Like I said, your country has had a history of oligarchy, what keeps it from reverting? Certainly not an unarmed populous. Just look at the censorship that happens in the UK. People get arrested for internet posts. I live in a constitutional republic, a governmental system in which the individual has power over his own life without the fear of the mob. Things have been changing recently, but I'm glad to say that we still have some time to preserve this before it is lost forever and I'll keep fighting to do so. 


Sorry, what arseholes we are about arresting people over rascist tweets! But then again being racist is also ok in th US!

It might start with racists, but who says it ends with them? A truly free society is an egalitarian one, and certainly this is not equal representation on the UK's end. But anyway, you can have your government control you in YOUR country and I'll have my people control my government in mine.