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Forums - Gaming - While NRA Was on TV Talking About Need for More Guns, Another Mass Shooting was Occurring in Pennsylvania

LinkVPit said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

The fact that you need a gun to stay safe must be a trigger to say something isn't right?

And yes people are responsible for the actions, but would that tragedy have happened or been less if he had a knife or other weapon? Chances are no or less deaths at least.

We have gun laws in the UK and last time I checked we haven't had a gun massacre. How many have the US had?

Nope, I view it as a signature that I live in a free society and I have individual power over my own life; the world's not a utopia. How safe would you have been 150 years ago when you were considered a subject of the British Empire? Probably very safe, but at the same time I wouldn't have considered you a free person. The only reason you live how you are today is beause if Britain became an oligarchy again the U.S (and other countries) would dissaprove and voice it through relations of all kinds, because of our ridiculous international policy to be in everybody elses business at the expense of our own people. 

You already agreed that it's impossible to get rid of guns in the U.S (30% of the world's arms), so the discussion is kind of moot. 

Anyway, my safety is quite fine. The homicide rate of my county is nearly zero, and the violent crime rate is much less than, say, London's. Why is this? Because most people have guns and a burglary is not worth dieing for. 

Well I live in a free society, I think they call them a democracy .You also live in one! And the 65 million who live here don't need one and those that do get a licence! If you bought that into the US it would be a start.

A democracy is bordered by mob rule, and democracies always self-destruct. Like I said, your country has had a history of oligarchy, what keeps it from reverting? Certainly not an unarmed populous. Just look at the censorship that happens in the UK. People get arrested for internet posts. I live in a constitutional republic, a governmental system in which the individual has power over his own life without the fear of the mob. Things have been changing recently, but I'm glad to say that we still have some time to preserve this before it is lost forever and I'll keep fighting to do so. 


Sorry, what arseholes we are about arresting people over rascist tweets! But then again being racist is also ok in th US!


Er.  No it isn't.  We just have an adult way of dealing with it.   Confronting it upfront by people being against it.



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Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

I think we're ok, we're not ruled by gun-toters in congress! Enjoy being gunned down for no reason.

All I've learned is don't argue guns with Americans.


That's silly, why would somebody who has a gun and lives in a low homicide area be gunned down? It's the people without guns who become the victims of gun crime.  All I know is that my federal government wants to take away my right to due process of law (NDAA), free speech (Patriot's Act), property rights, etc. And if it weren't for my constitution and just as importantly, my right to bear arms, they would have by now. Gun prohibition would be the destruction of my way of life (American) and it is quite apparant. 

Your right to bear arms has dick all to do with what the federal government will or won't do to you.

Get this through your heads now, gun nuts. No military is scared of you.

I disagree.  I think gun owning americans could defeat quite a number of armies in the world.   There are a lot of shitty ill equipped armies.

Outside which, one needs only to look at Iraq to see just how annoying armed militants can be... imagine if every Iraqi insurgent had his own gun.

It's be a serious pain in the ass.   That said I doubt it's holding any country at bay, since the US army could pretty much beat any other 3-4 nations armies combined... but your ignoring reality if you think it would have zero effect in a invaded situation.

I mean picture Iraq, with better armed insurgents, a worse invading army, and FAR more cover, places to hide infrastructure, over a larger area.


I think you are kidding yourselves if you think there is a realistic scenario of  any country invading the US and staying there the long term.

And if you really think the second amendment is what prevents this , you're crazy enough that you probably shouldn't own a gun anyway...



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

I think we're ok, we're not ruled by gun-toters in congress! Enjoy being gunned down for no reason.

All I've learned is don't argue guns with Americans.


That's silly, why would somebody who has a gun and lives in a low homicide area be gunned down? It's the people without guns who become the victims of gun crime.  All I know is that my federal government wants to take away my right to due process of law (NDAA), free speech (Patriot's Act), property rights, etc. And if it weren't for my constitution and just as importantly, my right to bear arms, they would have by now. Gun prohibition would be the destruction of my way of life (American) and it is quite apparant. 

Your right to bear arms has dick all to do with what the federal government will or won't do to you.

Get this through your heads now, gun nuts. No military is scared of you.

I disagree.  I think gun owning americans could defeat quite a number of armies in the world.   There are a lot of shitty ill equipped armies.

Outside which, one needs only to look at Iraq to see just how annoying armed militants can be... imagine if every Iraqi insurgent had his own gun.

It's be a serious pain in the ass.   That said I doubt it's holding any country at bay, since the US army could pretty much beat any other 3-4 nations armies combined... but your ignoring reality if you think it would have zero effect in a invaded situation.

I mean picture Iraq, with better armed insurgents, a worse invading army, and FAR more cover, places to hide infrastructure, over a larger area.


Not only that, throw in the fact that a lot of the gun owners are ex-military..

Go read up on the Chechen War, when Russia attacked Grozny. The Chechens had no armor, no artillery, and no airforce. Despite that, what essentially was militia (including a nice dose of Afghanistan war veterans) held off arguably the 2nd best army in the world for months. The only thing that ended the war was essentially Russia telling the Chechens they were going to flatten the capital with cluster bombs, removing the city from the face of the Earth.

It was so bad during the 1st month of the Russian attack that the Chechens literally destroyed 1/10th of every T-82 tank committed to the fight - and the T-82 was the best Russian tank at the time (the same thing they made to spearhead an attack against NATO in the 80s). What they did resulted in a complete overhaul of Russian doctrine and huge modifications to their armor programs, as militia destroyed huge swaths of their mechanized forces.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

A_C_E said:
mrstickball said:

The problem is....If there are states that have very loose gun laws, and very low crime rates, shouldn't that tell you that there are other significant factors at play in regards to the problem of violence in America?

There are states with very horrendous crime rates. There are states with very European crime rates. This is despite the fact that most have very similar gun laws. If this is the case, then it has to be another reason. If you can't see that, then I believe you're not trying to look at the situation properly.

If guns were banned, maybe Mr. Lanza would not have done what he did. But alternatively, what if such a ban provoked other would-be mass murders to do their deed, believing they wouldn't be caught? That should be a core issue - if access to firearms really yields more murder and violence.

I am trying to look at the situation from both sides but I don't agree with one side of it. And yes I do agree that if guns were banned it would lead to people being provoked to retaliate, not necessarily with murder but other things too. I'm sure it would be a core issue but I'm also sure a nation/government with centuries of civilization behind it can figure out how to combat an issue with a reasonable outcome. I mean is America so effed up to the point where if you banned an inanimate object then everyone would just kill each other?


If you read what I said earlier, there is a formula to solve the problems that America has. We have many areas that are incredibly low on crime, and is easily around very good European standards.

Do you know what the lowest crime states in the US all have in common?

Graduation rates.

The top 3 states in the US for murders and crime are the top 3 states in regards to graduation rates. Fleshing the rest of the top 10, its almost an identical match. As I said elsewhere, murders in America drop 50% among whites and 90% among blacks when they finish just 1 year of college education (after 1 year, there is almost no difference, regardless of race).

So what'd the effect be if every state had a ~90% graduation rate? Crime would likely drop by 50% nationwide, and we'd be lower than the UK in terms of crime.

America is violent because America is stupid. When you have a lot of people that can't get a good job and provide for their family, they turn to violence and crime. Was that the case with Mr. Lanza? Probably not. But it is the case for the vast majority of crimes. Even then, Mr. Lanza (as well as any mass shooter) is usually marginalized in society, which makes little difference between them and those that don't graduate and turn to crime.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Ail said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
sc94597 said:
LinkVPit said:

I think we're ok, we're not ruled by gun-toters in congress! Enjoy being gunned down for no reason.

All I've learned is don't argue guns with Americans.


That's silly, why would somebody who has a gun and lives in a low homicide area be gunned down? It's the people without guns who become the victims of gun crime.  All I know is that my federal government wants to take away my right to due process of law (NDAA), free speech (Patriot's Act), property rights, etc. And if it weren't for my constitution and just as importantly, my right to bear arms, they would have by now. Gun prohibition would be the destruction of my way of life (American) and it is quite apparant. 

Your right to bear arms has dick all to do with what the federal government will or won't do to you.

Get this through your heads now, gun nuts. No military is scared of you.

I disagree.  I think gun owning americans could defeat quite a number of armies in the world.   There are a lot of shitty ill equipped armies.

Outside which, one needs only to look at Iraq to see just how annoying armed militants can be... imagine if every Iraqi insurgent had his own gun.

It's be a serious pain in the ass.   That said I doubt it's holding any country at bay, since the US army could pretty much beat any other 3-4 nations armies combined... but your ignoring reality if you think it would have zero effect in a invaded situation.

I mean picture Iraq, with better armed insurgents, a worse invading army, and FAR more cover, places to hide infrastructure, over a larger area.


I think you are kidding yourselves if you think there is a realistic scenario of  any country invading the US and staying there the long term.

And if you really think the second amendment is what prevents this , you're crazy enough that you probably shouldn't own a gun anyway...


And the award for "Not being able to read an entire post" goes to....



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BlueFalcon said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Now imagine a country of ex military, militias and armed civilians with a substantial amount more of training, firearms and force (common sense delegates that any army would be weary of attacking) Hell, I live in Canada where 20 million of us are armed to the teeth (albeit with rifles and shotguns) and let me tell you, no military would have a hope in hell agianst us.

Don't make up facts. The number of licensed gun owners in Canada is reported to be 1,830,542

(Canada.2010.‘Valid Licences as of June 2010.’ Canadian Firearm Program: Facts and figures (April – June 2010).Ottawa:Royal Canadian Mounted Police,1 June. (Q2139)


http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/canada

The amount of gun owners in Canada is actually declining:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/23/more-guns-in-canada-this-year-but-fewer-owners-rcmp/

When people talk about armed civilians vs. Military, it's not just guns vs. guns. You realize the military has F22 Raptors, F35 Lightnings, tanks, aircraft carriers, nuclear weapons, helicopters, snipers?  Good luck with that. If the US ever became a dictatorship, a combination of tanks, snipers, helicopters, stealth bombers and and infantry would kill armed civilians in 3 seconds. If there was ever a confrontation between US military, the professional military would level armed US civilians, no matter their previous training simply because the military is not only active but has miles better equipment that's not just assault rifles and puny hand guns.

I live in Canada and I don't know a single person who is Pro-guns or owns a gun, even for hunting. You must live in a different country than me. Canada is fully against guns. The US homicide rate is triple that of Canada's, per capita, and 70% of homicides in the US are committed with firearms as opposed to Canada's 30%. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that when you have easy access to guns you are going to have more gun crime. Canada is a much safer country than the US is and gun control is a huge factor in this. Most Canadians would agree with me. 

Oh dear lord, you are aware that there are more people who own and have access to firearms in Canada then there are that are registered right? Now I am looking for a more up to date link to provide but I did manage to find an article that "sourced" a United Nations study which found that 7 million people owned fire arms with an estimate of 21 million firearms in Canada (and that was in the 90's). Now, considering that most households have more than 1 person living in it, whether it is a couple or small family, that would give access to a substantial amount of more people then the figures would lead you to beleive.  I have no idea where the hell you grew up but "Everyone I know" at some point had their father take them out shooting or had praticed with a rifle (non license either) and when you go to more rural areas almost everyone you meet can shoot a gun or has several guns and a large family.

http://stason.org/TULARC/society/guns-canadian/26-How-many-people-in-Canada-legally-own-firearms.html

 

Secondly, maybe you've been living in a bubble for the past decade or maybe you just didn't bother to study history but if we take a look at all the fancy equipment the western armies have had in places like Vietnam, Afghanistan,etc compared to what the people had......well,  if you don't believe that U.S or Canadian civilians would be able to stop our respective militaries then good sir you are sadly mistaken.

Furthermore, what you should have stated is a majority of Canadians in Southern Ontario and Quebec agree with you, not the rest of Canada (especially out west) as I shall use the Angus Read poll as an example to show that when it comes to hot topics like the abolishment of the long gun registry to banning guns, Canadians are split (sourced from a scientific poll, not the right wing Toronto Sun or Left Wing National Post)

"Views on a Complete Ban

Canadians are evenly divided on the possibility of implementing a complete ban on handguns.

Since August, the proportion of respondents who support a ban fell by five points to 44 per cent, while the proportion of Canadians who believe a ban would be unjustified increased by four points to reach 44 per cent. Majorities in every Western Canadian province believe a ban would be unjustified, while most Quebecers would agree to implement one.

The Registry

The Canadian Firearms Registry, also known as the long gun registry, requires the registration of all non-restricted firearms in Canada. More than a third of Canadians (38%, -5 since August) believe the registry has been unsuccessful in preventing crime in Canada, while three-in-ten (31%, +2) think it has had no effect on crime. Only 16 per cent of respondents (+3) believe the Canadian Firearms Registry has been successful.

Almost half of Canadians (46%, +2) call for the long gun registry to be scrapped—including large majorities in the Prairies (65%) and Alberta (69%). Two-in-five respondents (40%, +5) are opposed to this course of action, including 59 per cent of Quebecers.

While 44 per cent of Urban Canadians would scrap the long gun registry, the proportion jumps to 53 per cent among Rural Canadians. For the purpose of this analysis, Rural Canadians are defined as persons living outside centres with a population of 1,000 inhabitants, and outside areas with 400 persons per square kilometre."

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/39504/almost_half_of_canadians_would_abolish_the_long_gun_registry/

I guess most Canadians do not agree with you.



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

Whenever you get the old chestnut of "Guns don't kill people, people kill people", respond with this:

"Guns don't save people from gun violence, people save people from gun violence."

And if any American who likes guns tries to point to Finland, or Israel, or another country like that as "proof" that more guns make it better, just point to Australia - in many ways, Australian culture mirrors American culture. Indeed, prior to 1996, Australia's gun crime rate was very similar to America's gun crime rate. Then there was a gun massacre, the worst in history (at least at the time), and even the most conservative politicians decided that gun control was essential.

The prime minister at the time, who was a right-wing conservative leader, established a gun buyback scheme and laws to control gun violence. Since then, our gun violence has dropped dramatically, making us a country that sees far less gun crime than America. Here's a graph showing the change in firearm homicide rates (and non-firearm homicide rates, to show that that rate didn't increase to compensate):



havent read any comments but this shit is what is called a  drive by that happens in every inner city hood in america almost daily   talking bout this "mass shooting in pennsylvania of course"



I wish people would realize stricter gun control does not mean a ban on guns



And the debate continues. Also why do people from other countries feel the need to but into the United States policy on guns? I'm looking at you China.