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Forums - Gaming - While NRA Was on TV Talking About Need for More Guns, Another Mass Shooting was Occurring in Pennsylvania

mrstickball said:
arcane_chaos said:
all he did was blabber about everything but guns.

I don't understand why the NRA can't support a national database regarding to gun ownership and previous crimes to those applying for gun when a recent poll did by an MSNBC or CNN affiliate said that 74% of people belonging to the NRA club said they would support such measures.


So what is the current background check system?


at all depends on which state live in, ironically in Connecticut where the latest tragedy took place has one of the most strict guns laws in the states when applying for guns in the state of CT. but in other states(mostly midwestern states) you can walk right into a gunshow and buy a gun with no backround check whatsoever

I can't confirm this statiastic myself but since I heard it on the HLN/MSNBC/CNN I'm going to say it holds some water; they said that 40% of all guns bought in the U.S. are bought with know backround check at events like gunshows/pawnshops/internet/etc.



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I don't understand how a background check would've prevented Mrs. Lanza from obtaining her weapons. She was a law-abiding citizen with no mental health problems herself. She was well-educated on gun use and regularly practiced.



Only 2% of criminals get their guns from gun shows. 

 



sc94597 said:
I don't understand how a background check would've prevented Mrs. Lanza from obtaining her weapons. She was a law-abiding citizen with no mental health problems herself. She was well-educated on gun use and regularly practiced.


Yeah. If you think about it, her guns were stolen. It was her son, but he still stole them. He illegally obtained those guns and no law can stop someone from breaking the law.



arcane_chaos said:
mrstickball said:
arcane_chaos said:
all he did was blabber about everything but guns.

I don't understand why the NRA can't support a national database regarding to gun ownership and previous crimes to those applying for gun when a recent poll did by an MSNBC or CNN affiliate said that 74% of people belonging to the NRA club said they would support such measures.


So what is the current background check system?


at all depends on which state live in, ironically in Connecticut where the latest tragedy took place has one of the most strict guns laws in the states when applying for guns in the state of CT. but in other states(mostly midwestern states) you can walk right into a gunshow and buy a gun with no backround check whatsoever

I can't confirm this statiastic myself but since I heard it on the HLN/MSNBC/CNN I'm going to say it holds some water; they said that 40% of all guns bought in the U.S. are bought with know backround check at events like gunshows/pawnshops/internet/etc.


Thats because "gunshow loophole" is nothing more than an acknowledgement that the Federal government has no Constitutional basis what-so-ever to mandate who you sell your private property to, especially if you keep it within your state. 

There is no gun show loophole. It is a myth. Any two consenting adults can privately do business WITHOUT government interference. If I want to sell you a Spacely Cog, it is not the Governments business.



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killerzX said:
Signalstar said:
300 million guns in this country is still not enough to keep us safe. We need moar nao!

we need more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens, as prooved time and time again by the lower crimerates in areas where citizens are armed in greater numbers thanks to laws that permit them to do so, and high crimes in area with low amounts of legal gun ownership thanks to laws that prohibit lawful gun owners.

There are more crimes in those 'low crime' areas (lol) than anywhere in Canada so there is your proof that guns need to be put in the hands of officers and not just your average Joe (Adam Lanza) who could at any point take a gun from their parents and go mass shoot some 1st graders at a public school.  

If the gun wasn't in the hands of Adam Lanza; if he didn't have access to the guns, then the shootings wouldn't have taken place. Only a moron would defend this situation.

A mass shooting resulting from a random person with a gun has just taken place...lets give every random guy a gun.

Only in America. Okay maybe afghanistan too.



kain_kusanagi said:
sc94597 said:
I don't understand how a background check would've prevented Mrs. Lanza from obtaining her weapons. She was a law-abiding citizen with no mental health problems herself. She was well-educated on gun use and regularly practiced.


Yeah. If you think about it, her guns were stolen. It was her son, but he still stole them. He illegally obtained those guns and no law can stop someone from breaking the law.


That is the crux of the issue.

Even if the Democrats have their way and ban hi-cap mags, assault rifles, and create more stringent background checks, it would not have stopped Mr. Lanza from killing his mom, taking her guns, and killing the kids at school.

Why? Because it is literally impossible to do a retroactive ban without lots of people dying. Law enforcement has even said this - that they can't take away anyones' assault rifle. It'd be similar to the 1994 AWB, and we still had mass murders during the ban.

The entire gun debate is tangental to the real debate that has to go on - what causes a man like Mr. Lanza to kill 20 kids, and how do we address it. 14,000 people are murdered every year. Is that because gun ownership exists in the US? Unlikely, because a large portion of those murders take place in cities with total bans on firearms. There is a deeper issue in America as to what causes murder and crime.

If you look at all the data that is out there, you'll find a few things:

  1. Murder rates drop by 50% among whites and 80-90% among blacks if they graduate high school and complete at least 1 year of college or technical school.
  2. Murder rates began rising when America had 3.0 live births per woman, and began dropping when it hit 2.3
  3. Worldwide, murder correlates heavily with education and economic inequality
  4. Despite concealed carry permits being allowed in many states, there has been no uptick in crime
  5. Murder rates are at a 40 year low per capita in the US, despite gun ownership staying steady at 40% of the US population

Those facts deal with murder. The reality is that the gun debate deals not with murder or what causes it, but guns. Deal with murder and what causes a man to kill children, or another human being. Deal with it, and gun ownership ceases to be relevant.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

A_C_E said:
killerzX said:
Signalstar said:
300 million guns in this country is still not enough to keep us safe. We need moar nao!

we need more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens, as prooved time and time again by the lower crimerates in areas where citizens are armed in greater numbers thanks to laws that permit them to do so, and high crimes in area with low amounts of legal gun ownership thanks to laws that prohibit lawful gun owners.

There are more crimes in those 'low crime' areas (lol) than anywhere in Canada so there is your proof that guns need to be put in the hands of officers and not just your average Joe (Adam Lanza) who could at any point take a gun from their parents and go mass shoot some 1st graders at a public school.  

If the gun wasn't in the hands of Adam Lanza; if he didn't have access to the guns, then the shootings wouldn't have taken place. Only a moron would defend this situation.

A mass shooting resulting from a random person with a gun has just taken place...lets give every random guy a gun.

Only in America. Okay maybe afghanistan too.

The homicide rate in Canada is about 1.6. The homicide rate in New Hampshire (one of the most free gun states) is .8. The homicide rate of my county in Pennsylvania is .8. The homicide rate in Washington D.C during it's handgun ban was 35, after that was declared unconstitutional it dropped to 24. Just to put things in perspective. Adam Lanza could have easily driven a car into the building, set it on fire killing people as they fled, or bombed the school. Don't fool yourself, there are plenty of ways to kill people without guns. 



sc94597 said:
Mummelmann said:
While the constitution may state that everyone has the right to bear arms, it does not state that its a good idea for everyone to bear arms.
The whole logic of more guns = less shooting is also puzzling to me.
Maybe I'm just stupid, or maybe I'm a killer in the making since I've played video games my entire life.

The framers of the constitution believed that all sane, law-abiding men had the DUTY to own guns. Now of course, the framers aren't always right, but that was their mindset when they wrote the constitution. So it's understandable that the United States is the way it is today, considering the beliefs of the framers and hence the beliefs of the populous. More guns doesn't mean less shooting. More guns means less crime. Criminals are deterred from breaking into people's homes and attacking them when they know these people could have weapons. 

 

Or they bring bigger guns or more people with guns. If you arm the entire population, criminals aren't going to stop being criminals, they'll simply arm themselves heavier. In Brazil and Colombia when they first started battling the drug lords who owned huge plantations it was a relatively straightforward and simple corps of policmen with standard issue 9mm weapons and bullet-proof vests that made the raids.

The drug lords hired private armies to keep the police at bay, the police were forced to undergo more special training, hire consultants from the military and carry heavier weaponry do deal with this. The criminals cranked it up one more notch and on it went. Today you have heavily armored personel with 12.7mm machine guns, RPG's, hollow point ammunition and air support with helicopters sporting (and using) gattling guns with heavy caliber, the also simply bomb some of the plantations with incendiary grenades and rockets at times, leaving craters and entire regions looking like warzones.

Things escalate. The nuclear arms race during WWII, the Cold War, history is full of these stories and they show one thing; arming yourself more does not reduce hostility, nor does it deterr violence, it escalates the entire thing.

I think the NRA and US government should spend more time finding out what it is that makes their society so prone to situations like these, simply handing everyone and their grandmother a firearm is stone age mentality at best, decidedly fatal for many more children and adults at worst.



Mummelmann said:
sc94597 said:
Mummelmann said:
While the constitution may state that everyone has the right to bear arms, it does not state that its a good idea for everyone to bear arms.
The whole logic of more guns = less shooting is also puzzling to me.
Maybe I'm just stupid, or maybe I'm a killer in the making since I've played video games my entire life.

The framers of the constitution believed that all sane, law-abiding men had the DUTY to own guns. Now of course, the framers aren't always right, but that was their mindset when they wrote the constitution. So it's understandable that the United States is the way it is today, considering the beliefs of the framers and hence the beliefs of the populous. More guns doesn't mean less shooting. More guns means less crime. Criminals are deterred from breaking into people's homes and attacking them when they know these people could have weapons. 

 

Or they bring bigger guns or more people with guns. If you arm the entire population, criminals aren't going to stop being criminals, they'll simply arm themselves heavier. In Brazil and Colombia when they first started battling the drug lords who owned huge plantations it was a relatively straightforward and simple corps of policmen with standard issue 9mm weapons and bullet-proof vests that made the raids.

Why would a burglar spend money on these weapons just to rob somebody? We don't have anywhere near the amount of organized crime as Latin America, which I might note has banned weapons and it has done absolutely nothing to their crime statistics.