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Forums - Politics - UN Upgrades Palestine to Non-Member Observer State

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Do you support this move by the UN?

Yes 71 74.74%
 
No 20 21.05%
 
Don't Know / See Results 3 3.16%
 
Total:94
Figlioni said:
You can make whatever excuses you want, but by blocking Israeli ships from using the Suez and the Straits of Tiran, is an act of war. Egypt were the aggressors, obviously. And they lost.

Blocking foreign ships from using your territory is called sovereignty. At least Israel gets to make the sovereignty excuse all the time.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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"Egypt's blockade of the Straits to Israeli ships and ships bound for Israel in 1956 and again in 1967 was a catalyst, respectively, to the Suez Crisis and the Six-Day War"

Sorry, but there's your aggressors.



"Success really is decided at birth, and your life will never be better than it is right now. Sorry about that."

Figlioni said:
"Egypt's blockade of the Straits to Israeli ships and ships bound for Israel in 1956 and again in 1967 was a catalyst, respectively, to the Suez Crisis and the Six-Day War"

Sorry, but there's your aggressors.

What did you do, copy a line out of Wikipedia?

I urge you to read more deeply and more comprehensively into the conflict. The French, English, and Israelis are commonly seen as the key aggressors and were condemned at the time by the international community.

Nasser was no hero, but to describe Israel during the crisis as an innocent third party injured by Egyptian aggression is simply not true.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Figlioni said:
"Egypt's blockade of the Straits to Israeli ships and ships bound for Israel in 1956 and again in 1967 was a catalyst, respectively, to the Suez Crisis and the Six-Day War"

Sorry, but there's your aggressors.

What did you do, copy a line out of Wikipedia?

I urge you to read more deeply and more comprehensively into the conflict. The French, English, and Israelis are commonly seen as the key aggressors and were condemned at the time by the international community.

Nasser was no hero, but to describe Israel during the crisis as an innocent third party injured by Egyptian aggression is simply not true.

Commonly seen as the aggressors, by who? The Arabs? What a surprise....



"Success really is decided at birth, and your life will never be better than it is right now. Sorry about that."

Figlioni said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:
Figlioni said:
"Egypt's blockade of the Straits to Israeli ships and ships bound for Israel in 1956 and again in 1967 was a catalyst, respectively, to the Suez Crisis and the Six-Day War"

Sorry, but there's your aggressors.

What did you do, copy a line out of Wikipedia?

I urge you to read more deeply and more comprehensively into the conflict. The French, English, and Israelis are commonly seen as the key aggressors and were condemned at the time by the international community.

Nasser was no hero, but to describe Israel during the crisis as an innocent third party injured by Egyptian aggression is simply not true.

Commonly seen as the aggressors, by who? The Arabs? What a surprise....

By historians....



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Ah yes, 'historians'....



"Success really is decided at birth, and your life will never be better than it is right now. Sorry about that."

HappySqurriel said:
RoryGamesFree said:

all of which were started by Israeli aggression you mean. rubbish, they have never pursued peace and have genocided Palestinians from the get go, Israel is a Terrorist state.

they did before Israel killed people and took their land...Israel has consistently shown contempt for anyone standing in their way and they continue to antagonise all their neighbours to this day and then cry wolf when any of these nations dare to respond (always with far less force than Israel has used against them!) you are fooling no one with your Zionist lies.


I take it you have never studied the history of the region, and have no interest in understanding why the conflict exists or how to peacefully resolve it as long as Israel loses (and I'm assuming it is preferential to you that those "evil jews" get killed) ...

historically Israel has always been in the wrong...you are the one ignoring it for your beloved Zionism. I would rather no-one died, your the cunt who is happy to defend the slaughter of Arabs by Israel.

Moderated,

-Mr Khan



Figlioni said:
Ah yes, 'historians'....

Simply wishing or believing something to be true does not make it so. Archival material, eyewitness accounts, memoirs, and other historical data point to a specific conclusion. If you wish to embrace something that isn't true, go with God. But please do not spread half truths here and elsewhere and claim them as fact.

There is no glory in being willfully ignorant of history, and there is nothing admirable about dismissing an entire class of researchers, biographers, and archivists as "historians" just because their conclusions point at something different than your ideology.

Again, I encourage you to read primary and secondary source material about the Suez conflict, and come to your own conclusions.



HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
HappySqurriel said:
I personally believe that the UN taking an action like this will only move us away from finding a peaceful solution that both parties will accept ...

This establishes a baseline: Palestine exists as a state entity. Thereby it would be very intolerable if Israel destroyed that entity (as they are attempting with this E1 settlement deal). This means that the two-state solution is already one third there; all we need is a legitimate, democratic Palestine, and defined territory.

... and how does this help Israel meet their needs to have a peaceful neighbour?

There could have been a path towards this presented where Palistine achieved status by being able to demonstrate that they were able to provide the most basic of government and stop the launching of rockets into Israel, but (for some reason) asking the Palistinians to act like a state of laws is unimportant.

I could be wrong but I suspect that in Israel people are now far more likely to believe that there is no peaceful process that will end with acceptable terms, and Palistinian terrorists are emboldened because their violence is winning over the world, and we're one step closer to a bad end to this.

You probably have good intentions, but you sound naive...

The basic problem in this conflict is: The vast majority of Israelis do not want a two-state solution, they are absolutely against a palestinian state. Even if an israeli politician was in favor of a two-state solution, actually going that path would be political suicide. Yitzhak Rabin learned this the hard way... Jews that emigrate to Israel are often the more religious hardcore type of jews, who consider "Eretz Israel"/"greater Israel" some kind of divine mission/doctrine. They seriously believe that god has given them the land and wants them (and preferably: only them) to be there. This rejection of a palestinian state is so widespread that you will not find a single political party in Israel advocating a two-state solution. In Israel, there is virtually no talk about a two-state solution. The ruling Likud party for example even explicitely states in their party platform the aim of preventing the establishment of a palestinian state by all means. (Considering that, it's almost cynical when people parrot the claim that "the only path for the palestinians to get their own state is via direct negotiations with the israeli government". Because that's the only path that will definitely never lead to a palestinian state.)

And this is not just a recent reaction to earlier "palestinian terror". It's been like this for many decades. They are even completely avoiding the word "palestine", the palestinian territories are always referred to as "judea and samaria", illustrating the perception that they are kind of occupied territries belonging to Israel.

Israel's actual strategy is simple: Delay the establishment of a palestinian state as long as necessary/possible, while meanwhile creating facts using their settlement policy that will ultimatively make any palestinian state unrealistic. Torpedo any real solution, but always place the blame on the palestinians. Whenever people like Netanyahu are talking about a two-state solution on the international stage, they are really just bluffing so the public is happy to hear what they want to hear - and just a few hours later, they'll announce expanding the settlements with thousands of new homes. There's a good reason for nicknames like "armour-plated bullshitter".

But, by the way, it's not like the Israelis are the evil guys here and the palestinians are the good guys. Neither side is morally better than the other - the palestinian tragedy is just that they happen to have much less power and weaponry.



Veknoid_Outcast said:
Figlioni said:
Ah yes, 'historians'....

Simply wishing or believing something to be true does not make it so. Archival material, eyewitness accounts, memoirs, and other historical data point to a specific conclusion. If you wish to embrace something that isn't true, go with God. But please do not spread half truths here and elsewhere and claim them as fact.

There is no glory in being willfully ignorant of history, and there is nothing admirable about dismissing an entire class of researchers, biographers, and archivists as "historians" just because their conclusions point at something different than your ideology.

Again, I encourage you to read primary and secondary source material about the Suez conflict, and come to your own conclusions.

My conclusion is that Israel really had enough of Egypt illegally blocking it's shipping routes and training and supporting the fedayeen that were crossing into Israel and commiting acts of terror. No country would expect to just accept these attacks, yet Israel is supposed to, for some odd reason.



"Success really is decided at birth, and your life will never be better than it is right now. Sorry about that."