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Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft announces pricing and detailed specs for Surface Pro

thranx on 04 December 2012
disolitude said:
HappySqurriel said:
disolitude said:

Some people here really don't understand what this device does and who it's for.

This device isn't meant for finger painting and slinging birds around. It's a durable, light, portable, intel i5 tablet that has an active digitizer. It's a content creation device.

They can give 2 hours of battery and charge 2000 dollars for it and people will still buy this. What this does, the iPad or any Android tablet can't do.

If you want a tablet allowing you to pinch to zoom in a browser for 10 hours a day and play tablet games, go buy an iPad, Android or Windows RT device.

In my opinion, if Microsoft was producing the Surface as competition for the netbook and low-end tablet market they could (probably) carve out a niche for themselves. It doesn't compare well against high end tablets or ultrabooks, and pricing it in/above those markets only ensures that it will be remarkably unpopular.

To put numbers on this, at $200 Microsoft would have a successful product with the Surface, at $400 they could carve out a small niche, at $600 they will have a moderate profile "flop" like the Zune, at $800 they're heading for a high profile flop, and at $1000 I see it being discontinued within 6 months. They have (realistically) over-shot their market by $600 to $800 per unit.

 

If a product like Surface is offered at netbook like pricing, Microsoft would be screwing themselves hardcore. In the grand scheme of things, they really don't care how much a Surface sells. The point of the product was to raise awareness about Windows 8 and RT, and offer a cool hardware design that makes cool comercials.

The real goal for microsoft is to get OEM's to keep buying 80 dollar Windows 8/RT licenses. Selling the Surface for cheap will do nothing but cause them to lose money on hardware, while undercutting the OEM's with their own hardware hence causing them to lose Windows 8 software revenue. 


these are my thoughts as well. its already started in my eyes, since the first surface commercial i have seen i have seen others from 3 different hardware makers. and that will be their bread and butter.



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Shubhank on 04 December 2012

You can look at price cuts as marketing also.

But, both indicate a weak faith or expectations bc a company is trying to increase demand along the price curve.  Ever took an economics class?  I shouldnt have to explain the the simplest things for y'all.

And you think you know more about economy than Microsoft ?

And yes Microsoft is trying to increase demand along the price curve and i have gave proof how good that the demand will do to them.

Windows XP will lose huge market share in the next year and if all those users shift to Win 8 . the new microsoft store will become flooded with apps which is exactly what they want to promote Win RT.

So i think they took a very wise decision not what you say weak expectations.

I mean common if $150 win 7 was successful .. at $40 how much successful Win 8 will be ?

Microsoft may get lower revenue from windows sales this time but if their strategy works they will have income generation start from Win store soon.

They can  then easily charge what they want for Win 9 .



HappySqurriel on 05 December 2012
disolitude said:

I think you are looking at the wrong market and very short term strategy here. Also I think you are struggling to see Surface and Windows 8 in general as a premium product if you think it should cost 200 dollars. 

If a product like Surface is offered at netbook like pricing, Microsoft would be screwing themselves hardcore. In the grand scheme of things, they really don't care how much a Surface sells. The point of the product was to raise awareness about Windows 8 and RT, and offer a cool hardware design that makes cool comercials.

The real goal for microsoft is to get OEM's to keep buying 80 dollar Windows 8/RT licenses. Selling the Surface for cheap will do nothing but cause them to lose money on hardware, while undercutting the OEM's with their own hardware hence causing them to lose Windows 8 software revenue. 

Finally the Surface Pro compares very favorably to anything out there with same features. There is a professional market out there that absolutely needs an i5 or higher and a Wacom digitizer. Look up how much devices that have both cost, and what kind of weight and battery life they offer. 

I agree that the surface RT is kind of a tough sell at 499 when an iPad is the same price (until it gets a better app library and more features) but an x86 tablet at $499-$599 with similar battery life and portability is a no brainer for me. There is quite a few of those available already...


I fail to see how Windows 8 or the Surface are premium products because they're not premium products, and their poor sales reflect that:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows/21426/are-windows-8-sales-dismal-they-seem

http://news.yahoo.com/microsoft-surface-deemed-dud-q4-sales-could-come-142042622.html

 

 



disolitude on 05 December 2012
HappySqurriel said:
disolitude said:

I think you are looking at the wrong market and very short term strategy here. Also I think you are struggling to see Surface and Windows 8 in general as a premium product if you think it should cost 200 dollars. 

If a product like Surface is offered at netbook like pricing, Microsoft would be screwing themselves hardcore. In the grand scheme of things, they really don't care how much a Surface sells. The point of the product was to raise awareness about Windows 8 and RT, and offer a cool hardware design that makes cool comercials.

The real goal for microsoft is to get OEM's to keep buying 80 dollar Windows 8/RT licenses. Selling the Surface for cheap will do nothing but cause them to lose money on hardware, while undercutting the OEM's with their own hardware hence causing them to lose Windows 8 software revenue. 

Finally the Surface Pro compares very favorably to anything out there with same features. There is a professional market out there that absolutely needs an i5 or higher and a Wacom digitizer. Look up how much devices that have both cost, and what kind of weight and battery life they offer. 

I agree that the surface RT is kind of a tough sell at 499 when an iPad is the same price (until it gets a better app library and more features) but an x86 tablet at $499-$599 with similar battery life and portability is a no brainer for me. There is quite a few of those available already...


I fail to see how Windows 8 or the Surface are premium products because they're not premium products, and their poor sales reflect that:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows/21426/are-windows-8-sales-dismal-they-seem

http://news.yahoo.com/microsoft-surface-deemed-dud-q4-sales-could-come-142042622.html

 

 


There has been a crapload of sales articles presenting both sides of the coin. Last I heard is that Windows 8 upgrades are at 40 million in 3 weeks which is beating Windows 7 upgrades. Microsoft hasn't shed any light on surface sales, not does it matter if the device sells 5 million or 500K units, because of reasons explained above.

I've seen this talk before, the infamous Microsoft Windows doom and gloom. Honestly Windows 8 launch reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day. It's exactly the same day microsoft is reliving with Windows 8 as they did with XP. And look how that turned out. 

Lastly, ths I fail to see this whole "it's premium product only if it sells" argument. Britney Spears sells a lot of records...  

Spend some time with a windows 8 tablet and look at the interface and its capabilities and then compare it to the competition to see why Windows 8 is a premium product. 



HappySqurriel on 05 December 2012
disolitude said:

There has been a crapload of sales articles presenting both sides of the coin. Last I heard is that Windows 8 upgrades are at 40 million in 3 weeks which is beating Windows 7 upgrades. Microsoft hasn't shed any light on surface sales, not does it matter if the device sells 5 million or 500K units, because of reasons explained above.

I've seen this talk before, the infamous Microsoft Windows doom and gloom. Honestly Windows 8 launch reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day. It's exactly the same day microsoft is reliving with Windows 8 as they did with XP. And look how that turned out. 

Lastly, ths I fail to see this whole "it's premium product only if it sells" argument. Britney Spears sells a lot of records...  

Spend some time with a windows 8 tablet and look at the interface and its capabilities and then compare it to the competition to see why Windows 8 is a premium product. 


I have a good memory of the launches of Window's 95, 98, 2000/ME, XP, Vista, Windows 7 and now Windows 8 ...

Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP and Windows 7 were all embraced while Windows ME, Vista and Windows 8 were all poorly received by everyone except Microsoft "fanboys". Vista was not really Microsoft's fault because most of the problems were that necessary OS improvements changed how device drivers worked,  hardware manufacturers didn't update their drivers in a timely fashion, and users had a bad experience from this.

Windows ME and Windows 8 are both gigantic misteps though ...

Microsoft and Windows will survive, and I suspect in 2 years Windows 9 will scale back the metro interface, bring back large portions of the Windows 7 interface, and will see massive sales as people upgrade outdated hardware that they put off because they couldn't stand Windows 8.



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disolitude on 05 December 2012
HappySqurriel said:
disolitude said:

There has been a crapload of sales articles presenting both sides of the coin. Last I heard is that Windows 8 upgrades are at 40 million in 3 weeks which is beating Windows 7 upgrades. Microsoft hasn't shed any light on surface sales, not does it matter if the device sells 5 million or 500K units, because of reasons explained above.

I've seen this talk before, the infamous Microsoft Windows doom and gloom. Honestly Windows 8 launch reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day. It's exactly the same day microsoft is reliving with Windows 8 as they did with XP. And look how that turned out. 

Lastly, ths I fail to see this whole "it's premium product only if it sells" argument. Britney Spears sells a lot of records...  

Spend some time with a windows 8 tablet and look at the interface and its capabilities and then compare it to the competition to see why Windows 8 is a premium product. 


I have a good memory of the launches of Window's 95, 98, 2000/ME, XP, Vista, Windows 7 and now Windows 8 ...

Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP and Windows 7 were all embraced while Windows ME, Vista and Windows 8 were all poorly received by everyone except Microsoft "fanboys". Vista was not really Microsoft's fault because most of the problems were that necessary OS improvements changed how device drivers worked,  hardware manufacturers didn't update their drivers in a timely fashion, and users had a bad experience from this.

Windows ME and Windows 8 are both gigantic misteps though ...

Microsoft and Windows will survive, and I suspect in 2 years Windows 9 will scale back the metro interface, bring back large portions of the Windows 7 interface, and will see massive sales as people upgrade outdated hardware that they put off because they couldn't stand Windows 8.

I think your memory of some of these launches is a distant public consensus.

XP was massively rejected at first by businesses as it was a new 'unproven' kernel that had the DOS command prompt as an "app" and not as the backbone of the OS. Also it's childish, user friedly 'fisher-price" like interface wasn't appreciated by the PC loyalists.

This should refresh your memory - http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/

A year after launch XP had 10% of the Windows marketshare. You really think Windows 8 will do worse? 



Scoobes on 05 December 2012

Windows 8 sales reports seem all over the place. Microsoft say they've sold 40 million licenses, then I've read reports saying only 15 million of those have been activated.

NPD seem to suggest the early sales have been relatively slow (https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/windows-8-gets-off-to-a-slow-start-according-to-the-npd-group/).

Then you get articles like these which are simply damning:

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/30/windows-8-hard-sales-numbers-are-finally-out/

"How bad is it? Is down 21% from last year bad enough? Windows 8 making up a mere 58% of sales vs Windows 7 in the same period after release has a good explanation, channel inventory, but even that isn’t exactly comforting. Luckily for Redmond, tablet sales are going to power Windows 8 right back to the top of the sales chart blowing past iPads, right? According to NPD, they were less than 1% of sales. Ouch."

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/12/03/sales-down-microsoft-raises-prices-radically/

"Microsoft is going to make up for the Windows 8 sales shortfall in a brilliant move, milking the trapped. In a shock to no one, they are raising prices on their enterprise customers to cover consumer revenue potholes."




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dallas on 05 December 2012
Scoobes said:
Windows 8 sales reports seem all over the place. Microsoft say they've sold 40 million licenses, then I've read reports saying only 15 million of those have been activated.

NPD seem to suggest the early sales have been relatively slow (https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/windows-8-gets-off-to-a-slow-start-according-to-the-npd-group/).

Then you get articles like these which are simply damning:

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/11/30/windows-8-hard-sales-numbers-are-finally-out/

"How bad is it? Is down 21% from last year bad enough? Windows 8 making up a mere 58% of sales vs Windows 7 in the same period after release has a good explanation, channel inventory, but even that isn’t exactly comforting. Luckily for Redmond, tablet sales are going to power Windows 8 right back to the top of the sales chart blowing past iPads, right? According to NPD, they were less than 1% of sales. Ouch."

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/12/03/sales-down-microsoft-raises-prices-radically/

"Microsoft is going to make up for the Windows 8 sales shortfall in a brilliant move, milking the trapped. In a shock to no one, they are raising prices on their enterprise customers to cover consumer revenue potholes."


It is all irrelevant or false according to disolitude,koweniki, etc



sethnintendo on 05 December 2012
disolitude said:


There has been a crapload of sales articles presenting both sides of the coin. Last I heard is that Windows 8 upgrades are at 40 million in 3 weeks which is beating Windows 7 upgrades. Microsoft hasn't shed any light on surface sales, not does it matter if the device sells 5 million or 500K units, because of reasons explained above.

I've seen this talk before, the infamous Microsoft Windows doom and gloom. Honestly Windows 8 launch reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day. It's exactly the same day microsoft is reliving with Windows 8 as they did with XP. And look how that turned out. 

Lastly, ths I fail to see this whole "it's premium product only if it sells" argument. Britney Spears sells a lot of records...  

Spend some time with a windows 8 tablet and look at the interface and its capabilities and then compare it to the competition to see why Windows 8 is a premium product. 

Aren't they offering the upgrade at a pretty damn low discounted price?  So it would be no surprise if someone upgrades for a low price.  However, I see Windows 8 doing worse than XP lifetime.  I simply don't like the tiled UI.  However, I am not a pro users and I stuck with XP as long as I could (till I bought another computer that came with 7).  I view Vista and 8 in the same light (both shitty products that I will never use).



disolitude on 05 December 2012
sethnintendo said:
disolitude said:


There has been a crapload of sales articles presenting both sides of the coin. Last I heard is that Windows 8 upgrades are at 40 million in 3 weeks which is beating Windows 7 upgrades. Microsoft hasn't shed any light on surface sales, not does it matter if the device sells 5 million or 500K units, because of reasons explained above.

I've seen this talk before, the infamous Microsoft Windows doom and gloom. Honestly Windows 8 launch reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day. It's exactly the same day microsoft is reliving with Windows 8 as they did with XP. And look how that turned out. 

Lastly, ths I fail to see this whole "it's premium product only if it sells" argument. Britney Spears sells a lot of records...  

Spend some time with a windows 8 tablet and look at the interface and its capabilities and then compare it to the competition to see why Windows 8 is a premium product. 

Aren't they offering the upgrade at a pretty damn low discounted price?  So it would be no surprise if someone upgrades for a low price.  However, I see Windows 8 doing worse than XP lifetime.  I simply don't like the tiled UI.  However, I am not a pro users and I stuck with XP as long as I could (till I bought another computer that came with 7).  I view Vista and 8 in the same light (both shitty products that I will never use).


The upgrade is offered at 39.99 from microsoft direct or 69.99 retail. Windows 7 was 49.99 for Home Premium and 99.99 for Professional. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10272259-56.html

Unless you count people who bought Windows 7 in the last 6 months who get the 14.99 discount, pricing is on par.

Secondly, you can boot to desktop and even have the start button same way as on any windows 7 machine. Here is something for you to check out -

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window-on-windows/make-windows-8-boot-straight-to-the-desktop/6976

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/141702-how-to-bring-the-start-menu-and-button-back-to-windows-8

I've spent over a year now with different versions of Windows 8 and I can rip appart any argument where people say "Windows 8 sucks cause it's not old Windows. Old windows was better and faster". It really isn't and once you learn how to use it, Windows 8 smokes Windows 7 in every way, desktop, laptop or tablet. But for people who put personal preference and habbits ahead of functionality, you don't have to change how you're used to using Windows with Windows 8. With a few tweaks you will get all of the benefits of Windows 8 and the same interface you've been using for over a decade.