I tihnk you're forgetting the 10 year dev cycle Wada imposed on all of Square's games.  Enix games come out on time.

The fact is that the one game that was delayed this gen was XIII.

If I recall correctly, every single one of their games was delayed one or more times. Seemingly the odds of delay excalate if it was available on Sony hardware, god forbid exclusive cuz we are still waiting on those :P

This is very true, yet I would also have to bring up the fact sales potential  starts to become negated the farther they keep pushing it this gen. FF shows a distinct patern of the last FF game of the generation doing only about 3/4ths of the one at the beginning. Yet this can be slightly skewed by the fact the first of the gen was usually the most liked. This time, it will assuredly be the opposite in that respect so maybe it still has a chance of selling equal if not better than FFXIII.

@forevercloud

Excuse me another giggle fit. You haven't the slightest inkling of how gradual the transition from VHS to DVD was in the United States do you. It took six years, and BR still hasn't pulled it off in the same time frame. Even thought it literally enjoyed far more advantages. The reality is that BR players have dropped in price far faster then DVD players did in the same span of time. Further more BR didn't have to suffer the stigma of Laser Discs which made consumers leery of the DVD. Hell DVD didn't even get to be coupled with other emerging technologies. There weren't a host of new televisions to go with DVDs.

Basically BR had all of the advantages that a new format would want. Within two years of being on the market the retail prices of the players were as low as a tenth of the original launch prices. That is insane when you think about it especially when you factor in inflation as compared to DVDs. If you compared the price lines side by side then BR would look like the Road Runner, and the DVD would look like a guy on crutches.

So don't give me this it is doing alright. It should have done spectacularly well when placed in comparison. It just hasn't done so. Most of it probably has to do with the fact that it isn't that much better. The majority of the real content out there doesn't even benefit from the format. Most video is standard definition. So I don't see a grand driving force out there to even encourage broad library adoption.

As for your comments on whether garnering Square support benefited Microsoft. You are actually quite wrong. It dramatically improved their library profile, increased their consoles sales in a hostile market, and really improved the sales of their console in other market. More then a few PS3 owners bought a 360 to play role playing games, because Microsoft helped to ensure that the PS3 suffered a prolonged drought. It is a unqualified success when you help yourself, and hurt your opponent at the same time. It might not be doing Microsoft a lot of good right here and now, but back then it did a lot of good, and in the long term it may do even more good.

Square is suffering, because the genre is suffering pure and simple. This is something that Square has made a point of stating publicly. The demand for Japanese Role Playing games is down in Western markets. Which is why they are trying to diversify into other genres. While it may not be a niche market. It is a small market. Ten years ago it was a lot larger then it is now. It isn't even the only genre this holds true for.

You kind of lose me at the end, but your acting as if the PS3 would have taken up the slack of 360 sales had any title remained exclusive. That is just delusional if I may say so. Most console owners aren't fanatics. They just picked the machine they liked, and don't feel any kind of responsibility to buy certain games, because they remained exclusives. Had Final Fantasy remained exclusive it is highly likely it would have seen a couple million fewer sales. Those sales far exceed any additional development costs.

Which is what really ails Square, and the Japanese gaming industry. Their development costs are too high, and it is primarily due to a rigid design philosophy. Japanese studios prefer to use engines they design to build games that are rigidly formulaic. So they spend a lot of money compared to Western developers, and they are reluctant to try new approaches. It lengthens development cycles, and that means the genre evolves slower over time.

Look this isn't unknown in Japan, and studios like Square are trying to transition out of this traditional mindset, but it is still going to take time. It isn't fair to judge Microsoft, because Squares fan base is shrinking, and is primarily in Japan. We don't know how well Microsoft would have moved the games if they had a bigger foot print in the Japanese market. What we do know is that outside of Japan. Microsoft did just as good of a job as Sony did.

In the end I think the real joke is going to be on you, because I doubt Square is going to let its key genre languish, because it hasn't kept up with the times. They are going to start orienting their games to a more global audience, and yes their games are probably going to become more platform indifferent. Once you go down the path of using third party engines that work cross platform. You start to see very little incentive in being exclusive.

Which brings us back to money hatting. The only exception to that rule is if someone else is flipping the bill, and Microsoft has shown that it has no problem with doing that unlike Sony. I will laugh my ass off if they manage to steal this one from Sony outright. The meltdown after Thirteen was hilarious. If this were to happen with Versus It would be just plain epic.

I lol'd

@Dodece
Lol what? I am all but done arguing with you as you obviously have no clue what YOU are talking about. There are far bigger obstacles slowing down BR progress, and it is still expanding. That convo DONE!

SquareEnix is/was market leader when it came to RPGs, and they lost it due to multiple misteps and rooting for the wrong team. Every exclusive game release for 360 was a flop. If not for their acquisitions, they wouldn't even be breaking even. All the money that MS moneyhatted them for games was a total bust in the long run. They...just like you, are too proud to admit that was an utter mistake.convo DONE!

The only reason their fanbase is shrinking is because of what I stated above. They have alienated those who have supported them for so long by playing for MS's gain. In the past, when Square made such a radical change up in their actions (IE switching to PS1), it was for the better, PS1 was more powerful and more capable for the game. This time they have opted to spread themselves so thin that nothing they come out with is filling at all.

This is my last response to you, so flame away.

There hasn't recently  been a FF by the 1st Square Division that was delayed as much as FF XIII.

And with Versus we are doing nothing but speculate. FF XIII-2 and the PS3 version of FF XIV were never "last munute" decisions that pushed Versus back, like some people wanna make it appear. Technically Versus was never delayed some the simple reason that Square never broke any promise.

From what i can detuct at this point Versus was announced so far back for two reasons: 1)create hype and 2)comfort Sony and its fans that they were getting another exclusive treatment in order to ease their way into announcing the 360 version of XIII later on.

In the last gens the games that came at the end were very different, IX caused some reactions with its artistic approach and XII with its gameplay. Now Versus is expected to be a return to form, of some form.

Just like the discussion we were having of whether or not it paid off for Dark Souls going multiplat, I don't think delaying XIII for about 2 years and alienating some PS3 fans was worth the 360 version especially considering how XIII-2 sales saw a further reduced share for 360 numbers. I am saying that 'cause I do expect the Versus sales to illustrate how bad of a decision that was and how important a title it is for the PS.

This is true and of course very obvious but it's still used by the occasional "old school" fan who intends to start another flame war about the "fall" of the Final Fantasy franchise. XSeed is calling their half a million seller "Last Story" a success and some folks insist on calling the small production of a non numbered FF game that is FF XIII-2 with over 2.7 mil,  a flop.

I would dare say that along with Nintendo, Square is getting a ridiculus amount of hate at this point.

I... don't see that on wikipedia.  Though if I missed something.  It's just wrong.

The closest thing they have is citing positive blu-ray hardware sales.   The trick being of course... they're counting the PS3... which far dwarfed actual stand alone blu-ray sales.  (PS2 not coming out until well after DVD won.)

The dropoff in that regard wasn't the GFC, it was that the PS2 entered the market.

Blu-ray software sales have always lagged behind DVD and quite a bit.

DVD had a hire adoption rate in total CD percentage, then Blu-ray did in "revenue" of the top 200.  Which was giving blu-ray a number of handicaps to where it would of looked even or better if it was remotely close.

Blu-ray has been a huge dissapointment.

It's biggest obstacle is... it doesn't do much.

It gives you better graphics... and that's about it.   DVD had numerous advantages over VHS.  As it is, Blu-ray will likely only ever get a majority of market share if you exclude digitial sales and streaming... and it will only get their by companies no longer offering DVD.

Calling it a dissapointment would mean that someone actually expected it to be the new standard in terms of data storage, the way the DVD was.

Was there such a someone ?