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Forums - Politics - What can be done with Isreal? Realistically!

Kasz216 said:
scottie said:
1). America stops funding their military.
2). UN tries a bunch of them for war crimes, only going after those that are extremely, blatantly guilty.

I promise you, they would wake up pretty quick.


Likely by forciblly removing all palestians from areas they want, unilaterally taking what they want, set up permanent borders and say "the hell with it" to every other area... causing political and structural collpase in gaza and the West bank forcing Egypt and Jordan to take over respectivly.

Backing Israel in a corner would likely only make things worse for Palestine.

Israel's military spending per GDP isn't actually that high, and they could likely get around any finicancial aid lost via trading it's weapons and going around US bans it won't have to follow anymore.

Like the recent alleged drone sales to Azerbaijan. 


You think they'd do that after America has stopped supporting them? I do not.

 

Regardless, if they escalates the problem, then the UN would of course have to escalate, first step being trade embargo, followed by removing Israel's status as a recognised nation, and finally with an invasion.

 

It's all moot anyway, because America will never withdraw support. I'm just saying what could be done to finish the conflict. Israel can obviously never 'win', but they can never 'lose' when they have the support of America and the support/indifference of the UN.



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scottie said:
Kasz216 said:
scottie said:
1). America stops funding their military.
2). UN tries a bunch of them for war crimes, only going after those that are extremely, blatantly guilty.

I promise you, they would wake up pretty quick.


Likely by forciblly removing all palestians from areas they want, unilaterally taking what they want, set up permanent borders and say "the hell with it" to every other area... causing political and structural collpase in gaza and the West bank forcing Egypt and Jordan to take over respectivly.

Backing Israel in a corner would likely only make things worse for Palestine.

Israel's military spending per GDP isn't actually that high, and they could likely get around any finicancial aid lost via trading it's weapons and going around US bans it won't have to follow anymore.

Like the recent alleged drone sales to Azerbaijan. 


You think they'd do that after America has stopped supporting them? I do not.

 

Regardless, if they escalates the problem, then the UN would of course have to escalate, first step being trade embargo, followed by removing Israel's status as a recognised nation, and finally with an invasion.

 

It's all moot anyway, because America will never withdraw support. I'm just saying what could be done to finish the conflict. Israel can obviously never 'win', but they can never 'lose' when they have the support of America and the support/indifference of the UN.


That's the only time they would do it.

As for everything else?  Are you kidding me?

Sudan, Syria and the rest of the stuff they ignore you think they'd do anything to Israel?

A country with a modern military and nuclear weapons?

Not a chance, you are living in a dream world.   Hell, the UN wouldn't even invade to stop genocide in countries with rag tag primitive militaries with zero political alliances among the security council.  Let alone a forced deportation done by a country that has a military that is arguably more advanced then most europeon countries.  What with it's own domestic drones as just one example.

I mean, don't be fooled, Israel's military is one of the top 10 in the world just by the numbers, and they're a lot more hardened then what most of the UN would put up. 

Israel is more or less untouchable with or without US aid at this point.

All there is too do is offer as much incentives as possible to make the best deal for the Palestinians as fast as possible.

Except the Palestinians aren't prepaired to accept any kind of deal they could reasonably expect to get.

 

EDIT: That's not even counting the fact that their economy is actually pretty self sufficient and a lot of Israeli companies are just ones that are vitally important, to which most of the world would likely lose out more on then they would.



Slimebeast said:
menx64 said:
MrBubbles said:

another senior hamas military commander has been killed

 

last i read was like 25 dead 11 civilians 5 of whom are children (source is gaza health officials)


and that is not a massacre you said? how many lives do they have to vanish before we can call it a massacre? every live, every life is important, regardless of their beliefs, nationalities, genders... 

It's collateral damage, which is very unfortunate but something Israel tries to avoid.

A massacre is something entirely different, killing done on purpose.

bullshit they do, it's at least 39 now the death toll, if any other nation did that people would be apauled, but Israel does it...

they also killed over 900 civilians in the last conflict, they make no effort to avoid civilian casualties, none whatsoever, heck at least Hamas admit their (much cruder and doing far less damage/killing far less people) rocket attacks aren't targetted to avoid people (though I suspect this is mainly because unlike Israel they lack the tech to do so)

it's barbaric and depraved that you would try and justify the slaughter of children, Hamas is also an elected government, again if you bombed any other nations government it would be an act of war and such, but again one rule for people the USA don't like, one rule for their satelite terror state in the region...



mai said:

That's unfair to say Americans and Israeli are worse than Nazis, it's a long way for both of them to get to the heights of Nazis or Brits. But I beleive that was just a hyperbole to get attention. Still no reason in trying to shock people with scary pictures. I can do that, too:

Just out of curiosity, does somebody recognize it?

Thats from the my lai massacre in 1968, im sure it is. I remember seeing that image in a history lesson

But why do you compare Brits to nazis, thats unfair. We may have repressed people in our colonies, but we never systematically killed people in mass like them. The nazis are on new heights when it came to doing horrid and unforgivable things to other races. They worked people into the ground, gassed them, burned them, starved them, done whatever they could to make their victims feel completely worthless. We brits never were anywhere near that bad, the slaves had it way better than the victims of the holocaust.



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SlayerRondo said:
the2real4mafol said:
SlayerRondo said:
the2real4mafol said:
MrBubbles said:
the2real4mafol said:

I honestly forgot how bad the holocaust actually was, so just compared it to gaza without thinking about it, which was dumb. But i do know it is a very serious topic.

But back to gaza, operations like this have been going on for years literally. For example, in 2008, 1400 palestinians died from an operation just like the one now, even though only 10 israelis died at that time, which is way over done. And this happened many times, but yet the USA, UK etc. just ignore it, even though it's clearly wrong. Even if i was Israeli, I would condemn the government for doing such horrid acts. 

 

cast lead was different than whats been happening with pillar of w/e they are calling it.   ideally they dont even want to go in at all.  they can exert much greater precision and control with air strikes and the like.   with the iron dome in place they might not even need to go in because they can stop so many of the rockets that threaten them.   the most probable way for a civilian(in gaza) to die in this conflict is from seconadary explosions (militants store weapons in residential areas, the israelis use low explosive weapons because they dont need to use stronger ones.  it hits the weapons the weapons blow up thus damaging a great deal more than the missile could ) or from militant rockets and mortars falling short.

israel also wants to avoid a ground offensive because of egypt being controlled by hamas friends in the muslim brotherhood.  one of their initial targets was the head of the hamas military wing.  guy was a terrorist war criminal.  he was even responsible for the brutalisation of fatah in gaza, so i dont imagine abbas is all that upset about it.

this was all set off by an anti tank rocket hitting an israeli jeep on the border injuring three soldiers escalating up to this point.   in 48 hours before the operation over 100 rockets were fired into israel.

Yeah it is a hard situation they have to work with, every country around them, wants them gone. It doesn't take too much to start a great in the middle east at the moment does it. The general Arab ignorance and Israeli overeaction in campaigns just make it worse

It's hard to call it an overreaction when no other country in the world is put under similar circumstances that they are. The gaza strip where these terrorist launch rockets into isreal are in need of international intervention since they clearly cant take care of themselves.

It certainly has the power to be an overeaction. It seems, the situation is firmly in Israel's hands meaning it can do as it wishes without anyone saying a thing. But i doubt international intervention would happen in Gaza, even though its peacekeepers jobs to do that


Israel while they certainly could afford to show more restraint, does not have the situation firmly within their hands. The gaza strip is sadly out of control and given the hate of israel and the harsh conditions there international peacekeepers i believe are the best option. The internation community has to actually do something before it can criticize israel actions while their under such conditions that they are not.

Unfortunately, what is more likely. Is that we in the west, will continue to turn a blind eye to it all, like nothing is happening at all. It would be a miracle if the UN came to some sort of resolution or action on this at all



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oh to be fair the UK is awful on these things and always has been, the Empire was vile and comparisons to the Nazi's there are fair game imo as a Brit.

the UK government atm though is basically trying to take the country back to the Victorian times, including on foreign policy, though on Israel the UK has been up their ass cracks since day one, Blair was almost enjoying watching the massacre that was "Operation Cast Lead", his condemnation of it was pathetic, far too late and insincere.



RoryGamesFree said:
Slimebeast said:
menx64 said:
MrBubbles said:

another senior hamas military commander has been killed

 

last i read was like 25 dead 11 civilians 5 of whom are children (source is gaza health officials)


and that is not a massacre you said? how many lives do they have to vanish before we can call it a massacre? every live, every life is important, regardless of their beliefs, nationalities, genders... 

It's collateral damage, which is very unfortunate but something Israel tries to avoid.

A massacre is something entirely different, killing done on purpose.

bullshit they do, it's at least 39 now the death toll, if any other nation did that people would be apauled, but Israel does it...

they also killed over 900 civilians in the last conflict, they make no effort to avoid civilian casualties, none whatsoever, heck at least Hamas admit their (much cruder and doing far less damage/killing far less people) rocket attacks aren't targetted to avoid people (though I suspect this is mainly because unlike Israel they lack the tech to do so)

it's barbaric and depraved that you would try and justify the slaughter of children, Hamas is also an elected government, again if you bombed any other nations government it would be an act of war and such, but again one rule for people the USA don't like, one rule for their satelite terror state in the region...

Israel specifically have dropped pamphlets outlying which buildings to avoid.  The problem is, hamas likes human shileds, havings some kids in important buildings plays well in public opinion battles when they die.

Additionally, if one country fired hundreds of missles at your country a year.... every year....

I'd guess you'd order an attack on their government.

 

This repsonse only came AFTER Israeli citizens were injured and killed.

Yet almost nobody in the thread shows the slightest bit of contempt for the people who provoked the conflict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012#January



Otacon said:
They could drop nukes on them.


Nuclear anything is out of the question!!!! If you only understood the consequences of that!!!



Kasz216 said:
RoryGamesFree said:
Slimebeast said:
menx64 said:
MrBubbles said:

another senior hamas military commander has been killed

 

last i read was like 25 dead 11 civilians 5 of whom are children (source is gaza health officials)


and that is not a massacre you said? how many lives do they have to vanish before we can call it a massacre? every live, every life is important, regardless of their beliefs, nationalities, genders... 

It's collateral damage, which is very unfortunate but something Israel tries to avoid.

A massacre is something entirely different, killing done on purpose.

bullshit they do, it's at least 39 now the death toll, if any other nation did that people would be apauled, but Israel does it...

they also killed over 900 civilians in the last conflict, they make no effort to avoid civilian casualties, none whatsoever, heck at least Hamas admit their (much cruder and doing far less damage/killing far less people) rocket attacks aren't targetted to avoid people (though I suspect this is mainly because unlike Israel they lack the tech to do so)

it's barbaric and depraved that you would try and justify the slaughter of children, Hamas is also an elected government, again if you bombed any other nations government it would be an act of war and such, but again one rule for people the USA don't like, one rule for their satelite terror state in the region...

Israel specifically have dropped pamphlets outlying which buildings to avoid.  The problem is, hamas likes human shileds, havings some kids in important buildings plays well in public opinion battles when they die.

Additionally, if one country fired hundreds of missles at your country a year.... every year....

I'd guess you'd order an attack on their government.

 

This repsonse only came AFTER Israeli citizens were injured and killed.

Yet almost nobody in the thread shows the slightest bit of contempt for the people who provoked the conflict.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012#January

I have seen a UN report that states that the IDF used human shields ("During the period under examination, the Israeli occupying forces also rounded-up thousands of Palestinian males and approximately 7,000 were detained by Israel in a mass arbitrary detention. Many of the detainees were subjected to ill-treatment and, according to reports, some were tortured. The occupying forces raided and searched innumerable Palestinian homes, humiliated and harassed residents and in many instances looted homes. An even more condemnable practice was the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields while conducting those searches and while carrying out military advances in Palestinian cities, villages and refugee camps."

"Then comes the Israeli military assault on the Jenin refugee camp, one square kilometer in which 13,000 Palestine refugees, who were uprooted from the homes and properties in 1948, had been living. The assault began on 3 April and continued for 10 days. The Israeli occupying forces used helicopter gunships to fire TOW missiles against such a densely populated area. The occupying forces also used anti-aircraft guns, able to fire 3,000 rounds a minute. They deployed scores of tanks and armored vehicles equipped with machine guns and used snipers. The occupying forces also used bulldozers to raze homes and to burrow wide lanes throughout the camp, knocking down whole blocks of homes, in many instances while the inhabitants were still inside. The occupying forces intensively used civilians in the camp as human shields while conducting this military assault."), I have seen 0 evidence that Hamas do, and certainly not in this conflict. they are the democratically elected government...in elections the EU and other observes said were fine and reflected public will...the kids may well be their own because they don't expect other nations to get away with bombing a democraticaly elected government.

in response to being illegally occupied, treated like dirt and being refused access to basic amenietes...if anything it's restrained, Israel had done more than enough to provoke a war by any other nations standards with Gaza decades ago, those rockets also kill people rarely and indeed more Israeli's die of peanut allergy in an average year than the rocket attacks.

 

and AFTER the illegal occupation and stuff I mentioned, oh and after the IDF shot a child and assasinated government officials...

largely because they didn't, they are a crude militia of a military force at best in an occupied and beseiged piece of land that they can't even sustain themselves with thanks to Israel...



a pro-palestine public vs a pro-israel government in the west now thats interesting.

http://rt.com/news/israel-gaza-attack-protests-932/



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030