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Forums - Politics - What can be done with Isreal? Realistically!

fordy on 15 November 2012
jonnybmk said:
Mr Khan said:
jonnybmk said:
I have a question for the people in here that have really good backgrounds on this stuff:

Are Muslims nations/societies free? Free in the way that we think of being "free"?

Some. Turkey arguably tilts more in the opposite direction, where Turkish society has elements that try to repress Islam more than a Muslim group oppressing others. The United Arab Emirates is fairly tolerant (they would have to be: 75% of their society is immigrants, and they have large Christian and Hindu populations, though still majority Muslim). Indonesia has done pretty good since they got rid of Suharto, and Malaysia's making strides.

Forewardness or backwardness really has nothing to do with a country's religious background. Germany, the birthplace of protestant Christianity, had militant monarchism and then, of course, Nazism. Most of Catholic Europe embraced Fascism, and Orthodoxy has been perceived to have an "anti-democratic" tradition. It's all about economic development: the more developed you are, the more tolerant and free you are. There's a reason that the rise of democracy in Western Europe coincides with the post-Columbus era, when Europe really began to pull ahead of the rest of the world. One can look at the Russian Empire, which was given a chance at democracy and fell to Communism, while their second chance at democracy is (sort of) sticking

Of course, we see the Muslim world "abuse" the freedom of democracy, by voting in the restrictions of Islam, but that happened all over the world as well. The French Revolution of 1848 was defeated by the fact that the freshly-enfranchised peasants, totally under the sway of the Catholic Church, voted themselves back into monarchism (a la Louis Napoleon III)

In time, freedom will grow there as well. Part of the problem is much of the wealth in the Middle East is plundered by the upper class (the nature of an extraction-based economy).


Could I walk down the streets of Tehran wearing an American flag tshirt with a Holy Bible in my hand and not be murdered for it based on Muslim "religious" laws?

 

Actually, Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions, but it does recognise Islam as the state religion.

Could you walk around Alabama wearing a turban, beard and speaking Arabic and not get shot?



Around the Network
Mr Khan on 15 November 2012
jonnybmk said:
Mr Khan said:
jonnybmk said:
I have a question for the people in here that have really good backgrounds on this stuff:

Are Muslims nations/societies free? Free in the way that we think of being "free"?

Some. Turkey arguably tilts more in the opposite direction, where Turkish society has elements that try to repress Islam more than a Muslim group oppressing others. The United Arab Emirates is fairly tolerant (they would have to be: 75% of their society is immigrants, and they have large Christian and Hindu populations, though still majority Muslim). Indonesia has done pretty good since they got rid of Suharto, and Malaysia's making strides.

Forewardness or backwardness really has nothing to do with a country's religious background. Germany, the birthplace of protestant Christianity, had militant monarchism and then, of course, Nazism. Most of Catholic Europe embraced Fascism, and Orthodoxy has been perceived to have an "anti-democratic" tradition. It's all about economic development: the more developed you are, the more tolerant and free you are. There's a reason that the rise of democracy in Western Europe coincides with the post-Columbus era, when Europe really began to pull ahead of the rest of the world. One can look at the Russian Empire, which was given a chance at democracy and fell to Communism, while their second chance at democracy is (sort of) sticking

Of course, we see the Muslim world "abuse" the freedom of democracy, by voting in the restrictions of Islam, but that happened all over the world as well. The French Revolution of 1848 was defeated by the fact that the freshly-enfranchised peasants, totally under the sway of the Catholic Church, voted themselves back into monarchism (a la Louis Napoleon III)

In time, freedom will grow there as well. Part of the problem is much of the wealth in the Middle East is plundered by the upper class (the nature of an extraction-based economy).


Could I walk down the streets of Tehran wearing an American flag tshirt with a Holy Bible in my hand and not be murdered for it based on Muslim "religious" laws?

That has... what to do with what i just wrote?

Probably, because they have mad censorship laws, but you would likely get the same results in Cuba or North Korea. But that's politics. Islam has a long tradition of respect for "People of the Book" (Jews and Christians). Radical Islam as we know it is a relatively modern phenomenon, distinct from the holy wars that unified much of the world under the Muslim Caliphate. What the laws usually bar is "apostasy," or those who convert away from Islam or try to do the same to others, which indeed is the wrong thing to do, but that is something that will not endure.

Let's talk again in 30, 40, 50 years. Those apostasy laws will be mostly dead. The Muslims "overrunning" Europe will be mostly assimilated (or at least half-assimilated, still Muslim but acting European). It's simply their time to change.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

fordy on 15 November 2012

I have a solution for this, guys...

A British invasion of Israel/Palestine!

Think about it, if the British win, they can claim it as a colony similar to how they controlled Jews/Muslims in Mandated Palestine, or Hindus/Muslims in British India. If the British lose, it will be because the Jews and Muslims had a common enemy and worked together to deflect it.



jonnybmk on 15 November 2012
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
Mr Khan said:
jonnybmk said:
I have a question for the people in here that have really good backgrounds on this stuff:

Are Muslims nations/societies free? Free in the way that we think of being "free"?

Some. Turkey arguably tilts more in the opposite direction, where Turkish society has elements that try to repress Islam more than a Muslim group oppressing others. The United Arab Emirates is fairly tolerant (they would have to be: 75% of their society is immigrants, and they have large Christian and Hindu populations, though still majority Muslim). Indonesia has done pretty good since they got rid of Suharto, and Malaysia's making strides.

Forewardness or backwardness really has nothing to do with a country's religious background. Germany, the birthplace of protestant Christianity, had militant monarchism and then, of course, Nazism. Most of Catholic Europe embraced Fascism, and Orthodoxy has been perceived to have an "anti-democratic" tradition. It's all about economic development: the more developed you are, the more tolerant and free you are. There's a reason that the rise of democracy in Western Europe coincides with the post-Columbus era, when Europe really began to pull ahead of the rest of the world. One can look at the Russian Empire, which was given a chance at democracy and fell to Communism, while their second chance at democracy is (sort of) sticking

Of course, we see the Muslim world "abuse" the freedom of democracy, by voting in the restrictions of Islam, but that happened all over the world as well. The French Revolution of 1848 was defeated by the fact that the freshly-enfranchised peasants, totally under the sway of the Catholic Church, voted themselves back into monarchism (a la Louis Napoleon III)

In time, freedom will grow there as well. Part of the problem is much of the wealth in the Middle East is plundered by the upper class (the nature of an extraction-based economy).


Could I walk down the streets of Tehran wearing an American flag tshirt with a Holy Bible in my hand and not be murdered for it based on Muslim "religious" laws?

 

Actually, Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions, but it does recognise Islam as the state religion.

Could you walk around Alabama wearing a turban, beard and speaking Arabic and not get shot?


Yes. You could walk around Alabama like that. If you were murdered, there would be an investigation and a prosecution of those that commited the heinous crime because it is against the law to murder ANYONE.

In my example, people would be JUMPING OUT OF WINDOWS to stone you to death - you know it, and I know it.

"Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions".....what a joke. Even the people here sticking up for the terrorist state Palenstine are rolling their eyes at that one.

Be astute and vigourous in your arguements; but don't be rediculous, naive, or silly. Would you like me to begin quoting Ahmadinejad?



fordy on 15 November 2012
jonnybmk said:
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
Mr Khan said:
jonnybmk said:
I have a question for the people in here that have really good backgrounds on this stuff:

Are Muslims nations/societies free? Free in the way that we think of being "free"?

Some. Turkey arguably tilts more in the opposite direction, where Turkish society has elements that try to repress Islam more than a Muslim group oppressing others. The United Arab Emirates is fairly tolerant (they would have to be: 75% of their society is immigrants, and they have large Christian and Hindu populations, though still majority Muslim). Indonesia has done pretty good since they got rid of Suharto, and Malaysia's making strides.

Forewardness or backwardness really has nothing to do with a country's religious background. Germany, the birthplace of protestant Christianity, had militant monarchism and then, of course, Nazism. Most of Catholic Europe embraced Fascism, and Orthodoxy has been perceived to have an "anti-democratic" tradition. It's all about economic development: the more developed you are, the more tolerant and free you are. There's a reason that the rise of democracy in Western Europe coincides with the post-Columbus era, when Europe really began to pull ahead of the rest of the world. One can look at the Russian Empire, which was given a chance at democracy and fell to Communism, while their second chance at democracy is (sort of) sticking

Of course, we see the Muslim world "abuse" the freedom of democracy, by voting in the restrictions of Islam, but that happened all over the world as well. The French Revolution of 1848 was defeated by the fact that the freshly-enfranchised peasants, totally under the sway of the Catholic Church, voted themselves back into monarchism (a la Louis Napoleon III)

In time, freedom will grow there as well. Part of the problem is much of the wealth in the Middle East is plundered by the upper class (the nature of an extraction-based economy).


Could I walk down the streets of Tehran wearing an American flag tshirt with a Holy Bible in my hand and not be murdered for it based on Muslim "religious" laws?

 

Actually, Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions, but it does recognise Islam as the state religion.

Could you walk around Alabama wearing a turban, beard and speaking Arabic and not get shot?


Yes. You could walk around Alabama like that. If you were murdered, there would be an investigation and a prosecution of those that commited the heinous crime because it is against the law to murder ANYONE.

In my example, people would be JUMPING OUT OF WINDOWS to stone you to death - you know it, and I know it.

"Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions".....what a joke. Even the people here sticking up for the terrorist state Palenstine are rolling their eyes at that one.

Be astute and vigourous in your arguements; but don't be rediculous, naive, or silly. Would you like me to begin quoting Ahmadinejad?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran#Other_faiths

Quote: "Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians are officially recognized and protected by the government. For example, shortly after his return from exile in 1979, at a time of great unrest, the revolution's leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa ordering that Jews and other minorities be treated well.[4][37]"

Once again, laws would protect, but that doesn't mean the fundamentalist community would. Same goes with the bible belt in America.

So far, your arguments have shown NO logic and nearly all bigotry and sterotyping. Who exactly is taking the ridiculous stance here, again?



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jonnybmk on 15 November 2012
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
Mr Khan said:
jonnybmk said:
I have a question for the people in here that have really good backgrounds on this stuff:

Are Muslims nations/societies free? Free in the way that we think of being "free"?

Some. Turkey arguably tilts more in the opposite direction, where Turkish society has elements that try to repress Islam more than a Muslim group oppressing others. The United Arab Emirates is fairly tolerant (they would have to be: 75% of their society is immigrants, and they have large Christian and Hindu populations, though still majority Muslim). Indonesia has done pretty good since they got rid of Suharto, and Malaysia's making strides.

Forewardness or backwardness really has nothing to do with a country's religious background. Germany, the birthplace of protestant Christianity, had militant monarchism and then, of course, Nazism. Most of Catholic Europe embraced Fascism, and Orthodoxy has been perceived to have an "anti-democratic" tradition. It's all about economic development: the more developed you are, the more tolerant and free you are. There's a reason that the rise of democracy in Western Europe coincides with the post-Columbus era, when Europe really began to pull ahead of the rest of the world. One can look at the Russian Empire, which was given a chance at democracy and fell to Communism, while their second chance at democracy is (sort of) sticking

Of course, we see the Muslim world "abuse" the freedom of democracy, by voting in the restrictions of Islam, but that happened all over the world as well. The French Revolution of 1848 was defeated by the fact that the freshly-enfranchised peasants, totally under the sway of the Catholic Church, voted themselves back into monarchism (a la Louis Napoleon III)

In time, freedom will grow there as well. Part of the problem is much of the wealth in the Middle East is plundered by the upper class (the nature of an extraction-based economy).


Could I walk down the streets of Tehran wearing an American flag tshirt with a Holy Bible in my hand and not be murdered for it based on Muslim "religious" laws?

 

Actually, Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions, but it does recognise Islam as the state religion.

Could you walk around Alabama wearing a turban, beard and speaking Arabic and not get shot?


Yes. You could walk around Alabama like that. If you were murdered, there would be an investigation and a prosecution of those that commited the heinous crime because it is against the law to murder ANYONE.

In my example, people would be JUMPING OUT OF WINDOWS to stone you to death - you know it, and I know it.

"Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions".....what a joke. Even the people here sticking up for the terrorist state Palenstine are rolling their eyes at that one.

Be astute and vigourous in your arguements; but don't be rediculous, naive, or silly. Would you like me to begin quoting Ahmadinejad?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran#Other_faiths

Quote: "Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians are officially recognized and protected by the government. For example, shortly after his return from exile in 1979, at a time of great unrest, the revolution's leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa ordering that Jews and other minorities be treated well.[4][37]"

Once again, laws would protect, but that doesn't mean the fundamentalist community would. Same goes with the bible belt in America.

So far, your arguments have shown NO logic and nearly all bigotry and sterotyping. Who exactly is taking the ridiculous stance here, again?


ROFL. They wrote it down so it's true.

I will begin compiling the quotes. :)



fordy on 15 November 2012
jonnybmk said:
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
Mr Khan said:
jonnybmk said:
I have a question for the people in here that have really good backgrounds on this stuff:

Are Muslims nations/societies free? Free in the way that we think of being "free"?

Some. Turkey arguably tilts more in the opposite direction, where Turkish society has elements that try to repress Islam more than a Muslim group oppressing others. The United Arab Emirates is fairly tolerant (they would have to be: 75% of their society is immigrants, and they have large Christian and Hindu populations, though still majority Muslim). Indonesia has done pretty good since they got rid of Suharto, and Malaysia's making strides.

Forewardness or backwardness really has nothing to do with a country's religious background. Germany, the birthplace of protestant Christianity, had militant monarchism and then, of course, Nazism. Most of Catholic Europe embraced Fascism, and Orthodoxy has been perceived to have an "anti-democratic" tradition. It's all about economic development: the more developed you are, the more tolerant and free you are. There's a reason that the rise of democracy in Western Europe coincides with the post-Columbus era, when Europe really began to pull ahead of the rest of the world. One can look at the Russian Empire, which was given a chance at democracy and fell to Communism, while their second chance at democracy is (sort of) sticking

Of course, we see the Muslim world "abuse" the freedom of democracy, by voting in the restrictions of Islam, but that happened all over the world as well. The French Revolution of 1848 was defeated by the fact that the freshly-enfranchised peasants, totally under the sway of the Catholic Church, voted themselves back into monarchism (a la Louis Napoleon III)

In time, freedom will grow there as well. Part of the problem is much of the wealth in the Middle East is plundered by the upper class (the nature of an extraction-based economy).


Could I walk down the streets of Tehran wearing an American flag tshirt with a Holy Bible in my hand and not be murdered for it based on Muslim "religious" laws?

 

Actually, Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions, but it does recognise Islam as the state religion.

Could you walk around Alabama wearing a turban, beard and speaking Arabic and not get shot?


Yes. You could walk around Alabama like that. If you were murdered, there would be an investigation and a prosecution of those that commited the heinous crime because it is against the law to murder ANYONE.

In my example, people would be JUMPING OUT OF WINDOWS to stone you to death - you know it, and I know it.

"Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions".....what a joke. Even the people here sticking up for the terrorist state Palenstine are rolling their eyes at that one.

Be astute and vigourous in your arguements; but don't be rediculous, naive, or silly. Would you like me to begin quoting Ahmadinejad?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran#Other_faiths

Quote: "Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians are officially recognized and protected by the government. For example, shortly after his return from exile in 1979, at a time of great unrest, the revolution's leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa ordering that Jews and other minorities be treated well.[4][37]"

Once again, laws would protect, but that doesn't mean the fundamentalist community would. Same goes with the bible belt in America.

So far, your arguments have shown NO logic and nearly all bigotry and sterotyping. Who exactly is taking the ridiculous stance here, again?


ROFL. They wrote it down so it's true.

I will begin compiling the quotes. :)


ROFL. they reported bigotry in the media, so it's true.

Take your pick. If you have the choice between tolerance and bigotry and you CHOOSE bigotry, it only makes YOU look like the dickhead.



jonnybmk on 15 November 2012
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
fordy said:
jonnybmk said:
Mr Khan said:
jonnybmk said:
I have a question for the people in here that have really good backgrounds on this stuff:

Are Muslims nations/societies free? Free in the way that we think of being "free"?

Some. Turkey arguably tilts more in the opposite direction, where Turkish society has elements that try to repress Islam more than a Muslim group oppressing others. The United Arab Emirates is fairly tolerant (they would have to be: 75% of their society is immigrants, and they have large Christian and Hindu populations, though still majority Muslim). Indonesia has done pretty good since they got rid of Suharto, and Malaysia's making strides.

Forewardness or backwardness really has nothing to do with a country's religious background. Germany, the birthplace of protestant Christianity, had militant monarchism and then, of course, Nazism. Most of Catholic Europe embraced Fascism, and Orthodoxy has been perceived to have an "anti-democratic" tradition. It's all about economic development: the more developed you are, the more tolerant and free you are. There's a reason that the rise of democracy in Western Europe coincides with the post-Columbus era, when Europe really began to pull ahead of the rest of the world. One can look at the Russian Empire, which was given a chance at democracy and fell to Communism, while their second chance at democracy is (sort of) sticking

Of course, we see the Muslim world "abuse" the freedom of democracy, by voting in the restrictions of Islam, but that happened all over the world as well. The French Revolution of 1848 was defeated by the fact that the freshly-enfranchised peasants, totally under the sway of the Catholic Church, voted themselves back into monarchism (a la Louis Napoleon III)

In time, freedom will grow there as well. Part of the problem is much of the wealth in the Middle East is plundered by the upper class (the nature of an extraction-based economy).


Could I walk down the streets of Tehran wearing an American flag tshirt with a Holy Bible in my hand and not be murdered for it based on Muslim "religious" laws?

 

Actually, Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions, but it does recognise Islam as the state religion.

Could you walk around Alabama wearing a turban, beard and speaking Arabic and not get shot?


Yes. You could walk around Alabama like that. If you were murdered, there would be an investigation and a prosecution of those that commited the heinous crime because it is against the law to murder ANYONE.

In my example, people would be JUMPING OUT OF WINDOWS to stone you to death - you know it, and I know it.

"Iran's laws state tolerance to all religions".....what a joke. Even the people here sticking up for the terrorist state Palenstine are rolling their eyes at that one.

Be astute and vigourous in your arguements; but don't be rediculous, naive, or silly. Would you like me to begin quoting Ahmadinejad?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran#Other_faiths

Quote: "Zoroastrians, Jews, and Christians are officially recognized and protected by the government. For example, shortly after his return from exile in 1979, at a time of great unrest, the revolution's leader, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a fatwa ordering that Jews and other minorities be treated well.[4][37]"

Once again, laws would protect, but that doesn't mean the fundamentalist community would. Same goes with the bible belt in America.

So far, your arguments have shown NO logic and nearly all bigotry and sterotyping. Who exactly is taking the ridiculous stance here, again?


ROFL. They wrote it down so it's true.

I will begin compiling the quotes. :)


ROFL. they reported bigotry in the media, so it's true.

Take your pick. If you have the choice between tolerance and bigotry and you CHOOSE bigotry, it only makes YOU look like the dickhead.

I choose facts.

Atrocities commited by Muslims in the name of allah are not the work of the media.

In the United States, the last thing the liberal media is going to do is paint Islam in a negative fashion.

Muslims will continue to slaughter innocents and the world will look away in fear of "offending" them. They will continue to push their agenda of murder and annihilation and people will still continue to say, "Well, wouldn't you do the same?" as if murder and genocide can be justified.

A sad reality.



MrBubbles on 15 November 2012

iran is an odd and complex country. example: they hang gays and pay for sex changes.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

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gergroy on 15 November 2012
jonnybmk said:
fordy said:

ROFL. they reported bigotry in the media, so it's true.

Take your pick. If you have the choice between tolerance and bigotry and you CHOOSE bigotry, it only makes YOU look like the dickhead.

I choose facts.

Atrocities commited by Muslims in the name of allah are not the work of the media.

In the United States, the last thing the liberal media is going to do is paint Islam in a negative fashion.

Muslims will continue to slaughter innocents and the world will look away in fear of "offending" them. They will continue to push their agenda of murder and annihilation and people will still continue to say, "Well, wouldn't you do the same?" as if murder and genocide can be justified.

A sad reality.

First of all, clean up your quotes man.  

Secondly, there are plenty of atrocities commited by christians in the name of Jesus, should we condemn all of christianity for the actions of the few?  The vast majority of muslims are peaceful people that don't want anything to do with violence.  

You are imposing the radical ideology of extremists and terrorists onto the entire body of a religious and ethnic group and the reality is very different.