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Forums - Gaming - Did the Wii U force Sony to cut how much power the PS4 will have?

sergiodaly on 03 November 2012
Wyrdness said:
sergiodaly said:

what irony? sony didn't focus on casuals and that isn't by far, their biggest mistake this gen (they did some, and i can't see this one being a mistake, more of a business orientation)... i think the biggest mistake was on nintendo part relying specially on casuals that bought the console, cool because was profitable from day 1, but those people bought how many games? 47 like myself? i doubt that... wii was a trend and the road wii U is walking is the proof that wii was a short term success and that keeping above in this business is all about the gamers... bring more people into gaming is key also but they have to lure them in for the long run... in MS case, Live Gold is key in their success and the last time i check it, gamers pay for that, hardly any kinect casuals pay for that. if sony can avoid the mistakes (specially sell with at a lost) this gen and keep the high quality HW (along side with the good things they have), they will be fine in this industry...


The irony is that the casuals are actually generating money, they may not buy you CODS and such but look at the sales of Nintendo's first party games and how long they sell for. Sony have enough first party to keep the avid group happy and should instead look for a more broad approach, Wii was a short term success yet has lasted 6 years against two HD consoles when generations before lasted only 5, the U is coming at a perfectly scheduled time as the next gen is overdue at the moment. MS have even identfied the importance of the casual group to the market and business, they may not play the games we do but it doesn't mean they're less relevant in fact with the way the market has shifted they're probably more relevant then any of us, Nintendo have been propelled to market leader and made a tonne of money with minimal third party support and lasted 6 years against superior tech.

All this while two competitors have fought over the avid group and lost money, that in itself speaks for itself in how avid gamers compare to casuals, we're more here to keep third parties a float now not platform holders, I seriously wouldn't blame Sony for going a more conservative approach as unlike what some people think I doubt the casuals are just going to vanish and hold more relevance then people would like to believe.

Not focusing on casuals wasn't a mistake they made this gen as it was near impossible to predict the market shift unless you're Gamespot doing an April Fools but it would be a mistake to dismiss casuals in the next gen.

i still think casuals weigh less then us, but that is my POV.
in my post i never did say sony or anyone else, should dismiss the casuals, my point is all about, we first, them before... it might sound strange in a business perspective, mind these days trends and the growth in this industry also supported by casuals... but casuals need to be turned into the future serious gamers, so IMO sony shouldn't shift their way from us, but keep in line with their current line, but next gen have a "nicer" launch price , and do not sell at lost... 449/499 its expensive but not that much (by 2013 currency), and keep the gamers happy with a powerful machine capable of be better than wii U on multiplat games. (mainly because i think wii U is not that powerfull to give sony/ms users the wow factor to sound like a true next gen console, could be wrong, but for now is my opinion)

Proudest Platinums - BF: Bad Company, Killzone 2 , Battlefield 3 and GTA4

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Scisca on 03 November 2012
Viper1 said:
Why do you have the UK listed in your profile if you live in Poland?

No idea :) I'm new here, still have to adjust my profile, it must have put UK by default for some reason. Already corrected that.

Viper1 said:

And the reason why Sony has such a presence there over Nintendo is because Sony is a huge global consumer electronics, music and movie giant.   If all they sold were video games, like Nintendo, you'd have the same problem.  Same with MS being a huge corporation over Nintendo.

Nintendo - 5,000 employees.
Sony - 160,000 employees.

I'm not trying to use this as an excuse for the situation, only to provide the context for why the situation is the way it is.  A lot of gamers tend to forget just how big of a difference these 2 companies are. 

If you wanna be big, you have to make big moves. Nintendo is really ignoring a huge chunk of Europe, they should care more if they want to stay on top. Hmm... Makes me wonder what the sales of Vita and 3DS in Poland are :) I think that there is a huge chance that the Vita sells better. On the Polish ebay site the number of Vita related actions is two times the number of 3DS ones. That is just how much Nintendo is neglecting this market.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Viper1 on 03 November 2012
Scisca said:

No idea :) I'm new here, still have to adjust my profile, it must have put UK by default for some reason. Already corrected that.

If you wanna be big, you have to make big moves. Nintendo is really ignoring a huge chunk of Europe, they should care more if they want to stay on top. Hmm... Makes me wonder what the sales of Vita and 3DS in Poland are :) I think that there is a huge chance that the Vita sells better. On the Polish ebay site the number of Vita related actions is two times the number of 3DS ones. That is just how much Nintendo is neglecting this market.

They are neglecting it but it's also insanely difficult and expensive to grow into that market.  Sony has long been established for decades in those regions with movies, music and electronics.  That means they arelady had solid relationships with distribution netwokrs, retailers, ad partners, etc...  This took them decades to build.   And now with everything moving toward digital, you'd get even less back on any major invetments into the area with physical media.

Nintendo basically conceded eastern Europe to Sony.   

It didn't help that Europe was never really a Nintendo territory to begin with.   They were the major market for the PC Engine, Commodore and Amiga.  That PC style gaming culture never had much interest in Nintendo.  And even today the PC market is a much larger portion of the eastern European video game market than it is in the western Europe, the US and Japan.  Sony was able to make strides there again because of being such an established brand there already.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Scisca on 03 November 2012
Viper1 said:
Scisca said:

No idea :) I'm new here, still have to adjust my profile, it must have put UK by default for some reason. Already corrected that.

If you wanna be big, you have to make big moves. Nintendo is really ignoring a huge chunk of Europe, they should care more if they want to stay on top. Hmm... Makes me wonder what the sales of Vita and 3DS in Poland are :) I think that there is a huge chance that the Vita sells better. On the Polish ebay site the number of Vita related actions is two times the number of 3DS ones. That is just how much Nintendo is neglecting this market.

They are neglecting it but it's also insanely difficult and expensive to grow into that market.  Sony has long been established for decades in those regions with movies, music and electronics.  That means they arelady had solid relationships with distribution netwokrs, retailers, ad partners, etc...  This took them decades to build.   And now with everything moving toward digital, you'd get even less back on any major invetments into the area with physical media.

Nintendo basically conceded eastern Europe to Sony.   

It didn't help that Europe was never really a Nintendo territory to begin with.   They were the major market for the PC Engine, Commodore and Amiga.  That PC style gaming culture never had much interest in Nintendo.  And even today the PC market is a much larger portion of the eastern European video game market than it is in the western Europe, the US and Japan.  Sony was able to make strides there again because of being such an established brand there already.

You may be right, but not 100%. Eastern Europe was totally crazy about Gameboy and NES. Especially the NES, every single of my friends had one and the number of game stores in the NES era was far greater than it is today! Well, ok, it wasn't the NES, because Nintendo (as usual) didn't care about the market. It was a console called Pegasus:

 

It was a perfect copy of the NES and all the games (I even had a gun for Duckhunt). Trust me, it was huge. Much, much bigger than PC, Commodore and Amiga all added together. There was also a SEGA console out there, but not as popular. There was no competition for this beast. Everybody played it, there were ads in the TV for this, everything. So we knew Nintendo (all original logos were present in the games), hence N was a huge brand long before Sony entered the gaming industry. They just didn't care to develop that, just like they still don't care.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Viper1 on 03 November 2012
Scisca said:

They just didn't care to develop that, just like they still don't care.

I have a problem with statements like this.   Picture yourself as an executive a multi-billion dollar company.   Do you really think that you'd look at a market and come to the official statement of, "I don't care about that market"?

Or do you think it's far more likely that legal issues, distribution, marketing, branding, compeition, localization, etc...may have possibly played the main role as to why they've not made a big push into the area?

Seriously.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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Scisca on 03 November 2012
Viper1 said:
Scisca said:

They just didn't care to develop that, just like they still don't care.

I have a problem with statements like this.   Picture yourself as an executive a multi-billion dollar company.   Do you really think that you'd look at a market and come to the official statement of, "I don't care about that market"?

Or do you think it's far more likely that legal issues, distribution, marketing, branding, compeition, localization, etc...may have possibly played the main role as to why they've not made a big push into the area?

Seriously.

We don't have to assume anything. There are 3 companies here, all with a different approach and each gets exactly what it deserves. If it's profitable for Sony and now even MS to translate games, have ads in TV, hold Game Days, etc., why shouldn't it work for Nintendo? There was a huge market awareness when it comes to Nintendo. Everyone knows Mario. Yet for quite a long time I can't even find a Wii in the bigger shops, let alone smaller ones. I'm not complaining, cause I really don't care, I have my Wii and DSi and am happy with them :) I'm just stating the fact, that Nintendo has been ignoring this part of Europe and gets what it deserves. Sony has treated us seriously from the get-go and they dominate. But this is a market for the taking for anyone, you just have to give a good offer. This generation Sony gave Europe the best one. If MS gives a better one next gen, they'll win, trust me. I doubt it's gonna be that easy and clear for all companies in US and Japan, where we have clear favorites.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Cobretti2 on 04 November 2012
Scisca said:
Viper1 said:
Scisca said:

No idea :) I'm new here, still have to adjust my profile, it must have put UK by default for some reason. Already corrected that.

If you wanna be big, you have to make big moves. Nintendo is really ignoring a huge chunk of Europe, they should care more if they want to stay on top. Hmm... Makes me wonder what the sales of Vita and 3DS in Poland are :) I think that there is a huge chance that the Vita sells better. On the Polish ebay site the number of Vita related actions is two times the number of 3DS ones. That is just how much Nintendo is neglecting this market.

They are neglecting it but it's also insanely difficult and expensive to grow into that market.  Sony has long been established for decades in those regions with movies, music and electronics.  That means they arelady had solid relationships with distribution netwokrs, retailers, ad partners, etc...  This took them decades to build.   And now with everything moving toward digital, you'd get even less back on any major invetments into the area with physical media.

Nintendo basically conceded eastern Europe to Sony.   

It didn't help that Europe was never really a Nintendo territory to begin with.   They were the major market for the PC Engine, Commodore and Amiga.  That PC style gaming culture never had much interest in Nintendo.  And even today the PC market is a much larger portion of the eastern European video game market than it is in the western Europe, the US and Japan.  Sony was able to make strides there again because of being such an established brand there already.

You may be right, but not 100%. Eastern Europe was totally crazy about Gameboy and NES. Especially the NES, every single of my friends had one and the number of game stores in the NES era was far greater than it is today! Well, ok, it wasn't the NES, because Nintendo (as usual) didn't care about the market. It was a console called Pegasus:

 

It was a perfect copy of the NES and all the games (I even had a gun for Duckhunt). Trust me, it was huge. Much, much bigger than PC, Commodore and Amiga all added together. There was also a SEGA console out there, but not as popular. There was no competition for this beast. Everybody played it, there were ads in the TV for this, everything. So we knew Nintendo (all original logos were present in the games), hence N was a huge brand long before Sony entered the gaming industry. They just didn't care to develop that, just like they still don't care.

I had one of those when I lived in Poland many many years ago. At the same time we owned an arcade so as a child I spent all my time playing games lol.

I did realise Nintendo's pressence wasn't that big (as I was very young when I left).

All I will say is DAMN I am glad NIntendo is a decent size in Australia and I got to enjoy the SNES and N64.



 

 

Ryudo on 04 November 2012

Sony forced Sony. Since they released consoles that cost so much to produce and lost so much. Plus the company on a whole is losing money. They need to cut some costs before the Playstation gaming division does a SEGA. They are making many of the same mistakes SEGA did



logic56 on 05 November 2012
Ryudo said:
Sony forced Sony. Since they released consoles that cost so much to produce and lost so much. Plus the company on a whole is losing money. They need to cut some costs before the Playstation gaming division does a SEGA. They are making many of the same mistakes SEGA did

pe-people...... who think Sony is poor.... you poor poor souls

 

edit: next years E3 will be very painful for you guys



Hynad on 05 November 2012
Kresnik said:
I'd actually been wondering for a while if Sony were going to side with Nintendo on the power front next generation.

Basically, this gen we had PS3 > 360 (but only slightly) >>> Wii. Nearly all multi-plats were developed for the HD twins.

Next gen, what if it was Xbox >>> PS4 > Wii-U. Where would the third parties go then? Would they go straight to the most powerful, or would the hang back with PS4/Wii-U provided there was sufficient market share there?

Or would, in fact, Xbox even go that much more powerful? What if all 3 consoles were just a minor increment more powerful than the HD twins? Wii-U would join the HD race; Sony would clean up and make a more approachable and multi-tasking console; Microsoft might be able to put some power aside for Kinect.

Idk. Will be interesting to see how it plays out anyway.


The Wii U isn't just a minor incremental power up over the HD twins. It may not be cutting edge by today's standards, but the HD twins are 6 years old tech. It's hardly comparable.  Even if the graphical leaps are going to be less and less noticeable the more we progress into the future, that doesn't change the numbers behind the tech. 

Now, I think the NextBox and the PS4 are going to be more powerful than the Wii U. But I think both Microsoft and Sony realized, thanks to Nintendo, that better graphics are not going to be enough next gen.  I don't think they'll release consoles that will cost more than 500$. Which I think is the sweet spot for a console that strives to be cutting edge while being affordable. And even that may be too expensive in most people's eyes.