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Forums - General Discussion - You Don't Necessarily Owe God Anything

DaRev said:

1) Therein lies your problem - you're PERCEPTION is all one sided and biased.

2) Humans also have the innate ability to love and do good, just as they have the innate abolity not to love and to do bad.

3) God is incapable of nothing - but he wouldn't force you to love him. If God goes around greaking his own rules then that certainly is not a good thing. Plus, we chose not to love him, death is only the end of any ability to make that choice. For example, do you love God, Yes or No?

1.) Okay....

2.) No, you just said humans do not have the ability to live a life without sinning. Their sinning is the result of their nature, which they cannot control. Their sinning is the result of something out of their ability to control. They should not be punished for something out of their ability

3.) God lacks the ability to forgive a person who doesn't ask for his forgiveness. That sounds like a limitation to me. Even humans can forgive people even if they don't ask for forgiveness.



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DélioPT said:

God`s punishment is also temporary... when you are alive. And not only purifies sins but also shows that what you have done something wrong.
In life, you have every chance to change. Every chance to repent and suffer the consequences in this life.
And there is nothing that God won`t forgive. Nothing at all.

God didn`t design people to sin or be saints. He made us in His image: to be good - isn`t that what is best about us? But He also gaves the ability to choose something over Him. How would you feel if you had to risk losing someone for the sake of letting that someone find their own path and hopefully not only love you back but to save themselves?

God is not incapable of forgiving. Punishment is Justice. God doesn`t stop loving you, you were the one who decided you didn`t want Him. And God, respecting that, gives exactly what you wanted. If Jesus died for every single one of us, you can be sure that everyone of us is loved by Him.
All the things He showed us to be good or bad, all the warnings, Jesus, all the apparitions and miracles, aren`t hollow, they are a sign of His love.
If you really want to know if God is read the Bible carefully and listen to what He said, when He said it. If you want proof that He is still around, check for marian apparitions, as not all apparitions are reflections on walls or windows.

1. Hell is eternal. At least many interpretations of it are.

2. Darev said humans are incapable of not sinning beause of their nature.

3. God cannot forgive a person for not accepting him.



Jay520 said:
DélioPT said:

God`s punishment is also temporary... when you are alive. And not only purifies sins but also shows that what you have done something wrong.
In life, you have every chance to change. Every chance to repent and suffer the consequences in this life.
And there is nothing that God won`t forgive. Nothing at all.

God didn`t design people to sin or be saints. He made us in His image: to be good - isn`t that what is best about us? But He also gaves the ability to choose something over Him. How would you feel if you had to risk losing someone for the sake of letting that someone find their own path and hopefully not only love you back but to save themselves?

God is not incapable of forgiving. Punishment is Justice. God doesn`t stop loving you, you were the one who decided you didn`t want Him. And God, respecting that, gives exactly what you wanted. If Jesus died for every single one of us, you can be sure that everyone of us is loved by Him.
All the things He showed us to be good or bad, all the warnings, Jesus, all the apparitions and miracles, aren`t hollow, they are a sign of His love.
If you really want to know if God is read the Bible carefully and listen to what He said, when He said it. If you want proof that He is still around, check for marian apparitions, as not all apparitions are reflections on walls or windows.

1. Hell is eternal. At least many interpretations of it are.

2. Darev said humans are incapable of not sinning beause of their nature.

3. God cannot forgive a person for not accepting him.


Yes, hell is eternal. But, both hell, heaven and purgatory come only after this life; only after all that happened here in this life.

I didn`t read what Darev said, but let me try this: see sin by sin instead of seeing all of them at once. By our nature, we can not sin in every single one of them. That`s how we are made... we just ended up failing because we chose the wrong path somewhere, once, twice, etc.. We aren`t born sinners, we are born with something good that we just dismissed at some point in life.

It`s not a question of forgiveness. As i said it`s a question of Justice.
there`s a verse on the Bible that says that there is more joy in heaven for one sinner who found it`s path than 99 good people who went to heaven - or something like that. That shows that there is love for those who sin. Jesus even said He came for those who needed Him.
God will always give people what they chose, even if it`s not what He wants.



babuks said:
To name a few flaws in the Bible:

1. Will the world perish?
- Heavens and the Earth will perish (Book of Psums Ch. 102 V. 25-26).
- The world will abide forever (Book of Psums Ch. 78 V. 69).

2. Heavens (Skies) got pillers (Book of Jobs Ch. 26 V.11).
Quran says in Ch. 31 V. 10 that Heavens don't have pillers.

3. Earth got pillers (Book of Jobs Ch. 9 V. 6), (Book of Psums Ch. 75 V. 3).

4. How to identify a true christian believer?
- There will be signs in the true believer, among the signs - 'in my names they shall caste out devils, they shall speak foreign tongues, they shall take up serpents and if they drink deadly poison, they shall not be harmed, and when they put their hand over the sick, they shall be cured'. (Gospel of Mark Ch. 16 V. 17-18).

There are others as well. You may watch the video for those.

I’ll watch the video later.

1) I don’t understand what “Book of Psums” means as it’s not a book of my Eglish Bible.

2) “Pillars”, in the whole of that Chapter Job is speaking metaphorically to describe what cannot be put into words, i.e. Heaven and the Power and Majesty of God. Job uses words that us humans can understand. The point is not whether or not Heaven has Pillars, but how do you describe Heaven. For example, he also says talks about the “face of the waters” does water have a face?

3)  Same as above. But also the bible at Romans 19 says that “I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh.” many things in the Bible are put a certain way so we can understand with our human mind, until we can discern things with our spirit.

4) These things did happen, as a sign to non-believers that the APOSTILES like Paul (not Christians) were true followers of Jesus and had his power. For example, after Jesus died and was risen and Paul took Christianity from the land of the Jews all the way to Greece and on his way to Roman where this is what happened:  “And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. 4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. 5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. 6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

Such was only so that many would believe and that Christianity would spread when people witnessing such miraculous signs, and thereby would know that people like Paul were not just any common man but true followers of Jesus. This however is not how you define or identify a Christian today. A Christian is a person that keeps Jesus commandments, John 14:23-24 “Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”

 

So I still fail to see where the Bible has any inaccuracies – but I will watch your video (if I can bear it).





Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

Sure you can bear the video. It is a debate and you can hear both parties defend their religious scripture.

I am not satisfied with few of your answers, but if you have reason to believe they are correct, here are few more:

Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ Genesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day?

Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13… ‘Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day?

Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says… ‘Earth was created on the third day.’ Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says…‘The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.’ Today science tells us… ‘Earth is part of the parent body… the sun.’ It cannot come into existence before the sun.

The Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13…‘The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day. How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ?

In the field of medicine, the Bible says in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53 - it gives a novel way for disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy… disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy. It says that… ‘Take two birds, kill one bird, take wood, scale it - and the other living bird, dip it in water… and under running water - later on sprinkle the house 7 times with it. Sprinkle the house with blood to disinfect against plague of leprosy? You know blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, as well as toxin.

It is mentioned in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.12, Verse No.1 to 5, and we know medically, that after a mother gives birth to a child, the post-partal period, it is unhygienic. To say it is ‘unclean’, Religiously - I have got no objection. But Leviticus, Ch. No.12 Verse No.1 to 5, says that… ‘After a woman gives birth to a male child, she will be unclean for 7 days, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 33 days more. If she gives birth to a female child, she will be unclean for two weeks, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 66 days. In short, if a woman gives birth to a male child… ‘a son’, she is unclean for 40 days. If she gives birth to a female child… ‘a daughter’, she is unclean for 80 days.

he Bible also has a very good test for adultery - How to come to know a woman has committed adultery. In the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No..11 to 31, I’ll just say in brief, it says that… ‘The priest should take holy water in a vessel, take dust from the floor, and put it into the vessel - And that is the bitter water ‘And after cursing it, give it to the woman And if the woman has committed adultery, after she drinks it, the curse will enter her body, the stomach will swell, the thigh will rot, and she shall be cursed by the people. If the woman has not committed adultery, she will remain clean and she will bear the seed. A novel method of identifying whether a woman has committed adultery or not. You know today in the world, there are thousands of cases pending in different parts of the world, in different courts of law - only on the assumption that someone has alleged that a woman has committed adultery.

Furthermore. it is mentioned in the First Kings, Ch. No. 15, Verse No. 33, that… ‘Basha, he died in the 26th year of reign of Asa.’ And 2nd Chronicles Ch. No 16, Verse No 1, says that…‘Basha invaded Judah in the 36th years of the reign of Asa.’ How can Basha invade 10 years after his death?

It is mentioned in the 2nd Kings, Ch. No 24, Verse No 8, that…‘Jehoiachin was 18 years old, when he began to reign Jerusalem, and he reigned for 3 months and 10 days. 2nd Chronicles, Ch. No 36, Verse No 9, says that…‘Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign and he reigned for 3 months, 10 days. Was Jehoiachin 18 years when he began to reign, or was he 8 years old?

I can bring more but no point actually. I just wanted to show few flaws in the Bible. There are allegations against Quran too. But there are replies for those allegations too. I hope you can have replies for these problems in Bible.



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DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
AstroGamer said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
Interesting theory, but i'm atheist so i don't believe in god, which means I owe him nothing! I have what I have because of my family or my actions, a so called god didn't gave me any fortune or misfortune, it's up to me.

Any problems in this world are created by the selfish act of other people, not a god's incompetence


Yours is an interesting theory as well. For if you believe that all you or anyone has is a result of some human action - then where did you and all other humans themselves come from being able to create those actions to obtain stuff? Also, what about things like air and the sun which humans certainly did not create, where did they come from, logically?

You are right, we didn't create the sun or air or water, but neither did a god, we don't know where they came from, but we are lucky to have them. But I say we get stuff because of our own actions because we control what we do but also our lives are this way because of what people did in the past, people are willing to do things to get wealthier and advance the human race, which is nothing to do with a god. For example, medicine is much better than it ever was before, because people made it better and so more people live. 

But i see you like Nintendo, so i'll try to link to that. Say, if Miyamoto or anyone else didn't choose to expand Nintendo into gaming in the 1980's, great games like Mario or Zelda wouldn't of existed. That's my point

So, you just OK in knowing that things like the sun, air, NATURE exists and really don't care where they came from? Or are you to afraid that if you really thought about it, logically, you're might find that your way viewing the world and where it came from would fall apart?

Your correct that our lives are very depended on what we did in the past - for example, Jesus lived in the past and thus we has Christianity and all of its teachings that we are now debating and affecting our lives even today

As for Mr. Miyamoto, if you trace his ancestory back to his first orginal father and mother - where do you think they came from? Meanng who were the first Father and Mother on Earth?, logically speaking of course

I just don't think nature exists because of some god that probably don't exist anyway. It's impossible to know how life started on Earth and not other planets around it, so i just ignore that, nature was around before people or any religion.

Also, is there any proof that a Jesus existed in bethlehem 2000 years ago?

As for the last part, I don't think we could track back to the first humans, but whoever they were they just evolved from another animal species. I just believe in Charles Darwin's "survival of the fittest" theory, where things evolve to fit their environment best over time


On your second "paragraph" yes there is. First of all, even if jesus didn't exist, then the intricate teachings from the bible have to come from somewhere. That creator of those rather radical ideas of the time was "Jesus". Second of all, The sheer number of texts (both true and fake) mention Jesus's name. To universally come up with the same name at roughly same period of time would be highly improbable in 1st and 2nd century AD, so someone named Jesus was teaching these things around that time. Third of all, there are numerous pieces of historical evidence that even several textbooks accept that Jesus of Nazareth was alive and teaching this stuff around 0 AD. His miracles are still up to debate as it is hard to prove something like produce enough bread to feed 5000 from only a few loaves.

I view the genesis story as a neccesary evil. If we wanted complete "free will", then we needed to eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil (aka morality). Otherwise, we would be just like dogs, loyal to their master but not making rational choices. He then, punished us to get us to understand that bad things will be punished so that we don't go around commiting evil deeds repeatedly( like serial killers and such).    

Fair enough, but i just don't believe in it. I would have to see such things myself to believe it, it's just hard to tell if jesus and those events happened, or was there just loads of people called jesus around at that time?

You have a right/choice not to believe. But what if you're wrong and what if you right? Do you care?

I wouldn't care if people actually found Jesus or the Christian God, but it might actually convince me to be a Christian if they did find him. Hopefully, then it will stop the annoying eveangelicals and Jevoha's witness' knocking on doors, i fucking hate those people! But as of now, I'm a happy non religious person. 

That's fine.

But, because they never found him means he didn’t exist? Do you have to be able to locate ever dead person that ever lived, to confirm whether or not they did lived?

Anyways, the reason you can’t find Jesus is because he is risen and not dead – Christianity 101.

You realise that Christians are among the happiest people in the world right?



But that's the whole reason i don't believe in it. He could be anyone! I like to think there is a reason to anything, i like to know why. As for your last point, i don't think religion has anything to do with someone's happiness, it's just a coincidence that christians tend to be happy



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
AstroGamer said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
Interesting theory, but i'm atheist so i don't believe in god, which means I owe him nothing! I have what I have because of my family or my actions, a so called god didn't gave me any fortune or misfortune, it's up to me.

Any problems in this world are created by the selfish act of other people, not a god's incompetence


Yours is an interesting theory as well. For if you believe that all you or anyone has is a result of some human action - then where did you and all other humans themselves come from being able to create those actions to obtain stuff? Also, what about things like air and the sun which humans certainly did not create, where did they come from, logically?

You are right, we didn't create the sun or air or water, but neither did a god, we don't know where they came from, but we are lucky to have them. But I say we get stuff because of our own actions because we control what we do but also our lives are this way because of what people did in the past, people are willing to do things to get wealthier and advance the human race, which is nothing to do with a god. For example, medicine is much better than it ever was before, because people made it better and so more people live. 

But i see you like Nintendo, so i'll try to link to that. Say, if Miyamoto or anyone else didn't choose to expand Nintendo into gaming in the 1980's, great games like Mario or Zelda wouldn't of existed. That's my point

So, you just OK in knowing that things like the sun, air, NATURE exists and really don't care where they came from? Or are you to afraid that if you really thought about it, logically, you're might find that your way viewing the world and where it came from would fall apart?

Your correct that our lives are very depended on what we did in the past - for example, Jesus lived in the past and thus we has Christianity and all of its teachings that we are now debating and affecting our lives even today

As for Mr. Miyamoto, if you trace his ancestory back to his first orginal father and mother - where do you think they came from? Meanng who were the first Father and Mother on Earth?, logically speaking of course

I just don't think nature exists because of some god that probably don't exist anyway. It's impossible to know how life started on Earth and not other planets around it, so i just ignore that, nature was around before people or any religion.

Also, is there any proof that a Jesus existed in bethlehem 2000 years ago?

As for the last part, I don't think we could track back to the first humans, but whoever they were they just evolved from another animal species. I just believe in Charles Darwin's "survival of the fittest" theory, where things evolve to fit their environment best over time


On your second "paragraph" yes there is. First of all, even if jesus didn't exist, then the intricate teachings from the bible have to come from somewhere. That creator of those rather radical ideas of the time was "Jesus". Second of all, The sheer number of texts (both true and fake) mention Jesus's name. To universally come up with the same name at roughly same period of time would be highly improbable in 1st and 2nd century AD, so someone named Jesus was teaching these things around that time. Third of all, there are numerous pieces of historical evidence that even several textbooks accept that Jesus of Nazareth was alive and teaching this stuff around 0 AD. His miracles are still up to debate as it is hard to prove something like produce enough bread to feed 5000 from only a few loaves.

I view the genesis story as a neccesary evil. If we wanted complete "free will", then we needed to eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil (aka morality). Otherwise, we would be just like dogs, loyal to their master but not making rational choices. He then, punished us to get us to understand that bad things will be punished so that we don't go around commiting evil deeds repeatedly( like serial killers and such).    

Fair enough, but i just don't believe in it. I would have to see such things myself to believe it, it's just hard to tell if jesus and those events happened, or was there just loads of people called jesus around at that time?

You have a right/choice not to believe. But what if you're wrong and what if you right? Do you care?

I wouldn't care if people actually found Jesus or the Christian God, but it might actually convince me to be a Christian if they did find him. Hopefully, then it will stop the annoying eveangelicals and Jevoha's witness' knocking on doors, i fucking hate those people! But as of now, I'm a happy non religious person. 

That's fine.

But, because they never found him means he didn’t exist? Do you have to be able to locate ever dead person that ever lived, to confirm whether or not they did lived?

Anyways, the reason you can’t find Jesus is because he is risen and not dead – Christianity 101.

You realise that Christians are among the happiest people in the world right?



But that's the whole reason i don't believe in it. He could be anyone! I like to think there is a reason to anything, i like to know why. As for your last point, i don't think religion has anything to do with someone's happiness, it's just a coincidence that christians tend to be happy

no he cannot be anyone, for exaample, go ask the next 100 people you meet to walk on water or bring a dead person back to life. Only Jesus had the power to do that. But i know your response might be that you need to see to believe. Well not really, because people in Jesus' day saw these miracles and didn't believe - they in fact killed him because he did miracles. They also asked for signs and miracles after he had done many miracles, but then Jesus said the only sign you'll get is me dieing and living again - hence no dead body. Furthermore Jesus says that you are more blessed because you haven't seen, but still believe.

Religion has everything to do with happieness, for without basis rules of loving each other which came from God, MAN will destroy himself through hate. Whites killing blacks and the other way around and etc, etc. Men have now come up wit things like basic human right rights, but God and Jesus said many years ago to respect and love one another.



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

babuks said:
Sure you can bear the video. It is a debate and you can hear both parties defend their religious scripture.

I am not satisfied with few of your answers, but if you have reason to believe they are correct, here are few more:

Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ Genesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’. How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day?

Bible says Genesis, Ch. 1, Verses 9 to 13… ‘Earth was created on the 3rd day. How can you have a night and day without the earth ? The day depends upon the rotation of the Earth Without the earth created, how can you have a night and day?

Genesis, Ch. No. 1 Verses 9 to 13 says… ‘Earth was created on the third day.’ Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses 14 to 19 says…‘The Sun and the Moon were created on the fourth day.’ Today science tells us… ‘Earth is part of the parent body… the sun.’ It cannot come into existence before the sun.

The Bible says in Genesis, Ch. No.1, Verse No. 11 to 13…‘The vegetation, the herbs the shrubs, the trees - they were created on the 3rd day And the Sun, Genesis, Ch. No. 1, Verses. 14 to 19, was created on the 4th day. How can the vegetation come into existence without sunlight, and how can they survive without sunlight ?

In the field of medicine, the Bible says in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53 - it gives a novel way for disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy… disinfecting a house from plague of leprosy. It says that… ‘Take two birds, kill one bird, take wood, scale it - and the other living bird, dip it in water… and under running water - later on sprinkle the house 7 times with it. Sprinkle the house with blood to disinfect against plague of leprosy? You know blood is a good media of germs, bacteria, as well as toxin.

It is mentioned in the book of Leveticus, Ch. No.12, Verse No.1 to 5, and we know medically, that after a mother gives birth to a child, the post-partal period, it is unhygienic. To say it is ‘unclean’, Religiously - I have got no objection. But Leviticus, Ch. No.12 Verse No.1 to 5, says that… ‘After a woman gives birth to a male child, she will be unclean for 7 days, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 33 days more. If she gives birth to a female child, she will be unclean for two weeks, and the period of uncleanliness will continue for 66 days. In short, if a woman gives birth to a male child… ‘a son’, she is unclean for 40 days. If she gives birth to a female child… ‘a daughter’, she is unclean for 80 days.

he Bible also has a very good test for adultery - How to come to know a woman has committed adultery. In the book of Numbers, Ch. no.5 Verse No..11 to 31, I’ll just say in brief, it says that… ‘The priest should take holy water in a vessel, take dust from the floor, and put it into the vessel - And that is the bitter water ‘And after cursing it, give it to the woman And if the woman has committed adultery, after she drinks it, the curse will enter her body, the stomach will swell, the thigh will rot, and she shall be cursed by the people. If the woman has not committed adultery, she will remain clean and she will bear the seed. A novel method of identifying whether a woman has committed adultery or not. You know today in the world, there are thousands of cases pending in different parts of the world, in different courts of law - only on the assumption that someone has alleged that a woman has committed adultery.

Furthermore. it is mentioned in the First Kings, Ch. No. 15, Verse No. 33, that… ‘Basha, he died in the 26th year of reign of Asa.’ And 2nd Chronicles Ch. No 16, Verse No 1, says that…‘Basha invaded Judah in the 36th years of the reign of Asa.’ How can Basha invade 10 years after his death?

It is mentioned in the 2nd Kings, Ch. No 24, Verse No 8, that…‘Jehoiachin was 18 years old, when he began to reign Jerusalem, and he reigned for 3 months and 10 days. 2nd Chronicles, Ch. No 36, Verse No 9, says that…‘Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign and he reigned for 3 months, 10 days. Was Jehoiachin 18 years when he began to reign, or was he 8 years old?

I can bring more but no point actually. I just wanted to show few flaws in the Bible. There are allegations against Quran too. But there are replies for those allegations too. I hope you can have replies for these problems in Bible.


Ok the Genesis argument you making falls apart because God created the light from the very begining in Genesis 1:3. This light was able make the rest of creation possible on the following days. It was until the fouth day however that he formed that light into what we now know as sun, moon, stars. Similarly, he created the waters from the second day in Genesis 1:6-8, but it wasn't until the third until he called the waters Sea.

As for the "Leveticus, Ch. No.14, Verse No.49 to 53" the use of blood in the bible is almost always ceremonial and spiritual and sacrificial. It was trough sacrifice that God cured their illness. The same way the bible says that all Christians MUST to be washed in the BLOOD of Jesus - but can we find we find any blood of Jesus?

I haven't read the rest of your response, but might do a bit later today.



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
AstroGamer said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
Interesting theory, but i'm atheist so i don't believe in god, which means I owe him nothing! I have what I have because of my family or my actions, a so called god didn't gave me any fortune or misfortune, it's up to me.

Any problems in this world are created by the selfish act of other people, not a god's incompetence


Yours is an interesting theory as well. For if you believe that all you or anyone has is a result of some human action - then where did you and all other humans themselves come from being able to create those actions to obtain stuff? Also, what about things like air and the sun which humans certainly did not create, where did they come from, logically?

You are right, we didn't create the sun or air or water, but neither did a god, we don't know where they came from, but we are lucky to have them. But I say we get stuff because of our own actions because we control what we do but also our lives are this way because of what people did in the past, people are willing to do things to get wealthier and advance the human race, which is nothing to do with a god. For example, medicine is much better than it ever was before, because people made it better and so more people live. 

But i see you like Nintendo, so i'll try to link to that. Say, if Miyamoto or anyone else didn't choose to expand Nintendo into gaming in the 1980's, great games like Mario or Zelda wouldn't of existed. That's my point

So, you just OK in knowing that things like the sun, air, NATURE exists and really don't care where they came from? Or are you to afraid that if you really thought about it, logically, you're might find that your way viewing the world and where it came from would fall apart?

Your correct that our lives are very depended on what we did in the past - for example, Jesus lived in the past and thus we has Christianity and all of its teachings that we are now debating and affecting our lives even today

As for Mr. Miyamoto, if you trace his ancestory back to his first orginal father and mother - where do you think they came from? Meanng who were the first Father and Mother on Earth?, logically speaking of course

I just don't think nature exists because of some god that probably don't exist anyway. It's impossible to know how life started on Earth and not other planets around it, so i just ignore that, nature was around before people or any religion.

Also, is there any proof that a Jesus existed in bethlehem 2000 years ago?

As for the last part, I don't think we could track back to the first humans, but whoever they were they just evolved from another animal species. I just believe in Charles Darwin's "survival of the fittest" theory, where things evolve to fit their environment best over time


On your second "paragraph" yes there is. First of all, even if jesus didn't exist, then the intricate teachings from the bible have to come from somewhere. That creator of those rather radical ideas of the time was "Jesus". Second of all, The sheer number of texts (both true and fake) mention Jesus's name. To universally come up with the same name at roughly same period of time would be highly improbable in 1st and 2nd century AD, so someone named Jesus was teaching these things around that time. Third of all, there are numerous pieces of historical evidence that even several textbooks accept that Jesus of Nazareth was alive and teaching this stuff around 0 AD. His miracles are still up to debate as it is hard to prove something like produce enough bread to feed 5000 from only a few loaves.

I view the genesis story as a neccesary evil. If we wanted complete "free will", then we needed to eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil (aka morality). Otherwise, we would be just like dogs, loyal to their master but not making rational choices. He then, punished us to get us to understand that bad things will be punished so that we don't go around commiting evil deeds repeatedly( like serial killers and such).    

Fair enough, but i just don't believe in it. I would have to see such things myself to believe it, it's just hard to tell if jesus and those events happened, or was there just loads of people called jesus around at that time?

You have a right/choice not to believe. But what if you're wrong and what if you right? Do you care?

I wouldn't care if people actually found Jesus or the Christian God, but it might actually convince me to be a Christian if they did find him. Hopefully, then it will stop the annoying eveangelicals and Jevoha's witness' knocking on doors, i fucking hate those people! But as of now, I'm a happy non religious person. 

That's fine.

But, because they never found him means he didn’t exist? Do you have to be able to locate ever dead person that ever lived, to confirm whether or not they did lived?

Anyways, the reason you can’t find Jesus is because he is risen and not dead – Christianity 101.

You realise that Christians are among the happiest people in the world right?



But that's the whole reason i don't believe in it. He could be anyone! I like to think there is a reason to anything, i like to know why. As for your last point, i don't think religion has anything to do with someone's happiness, it's just a coincidence that christians tend to be happy

no he cannot be anyone, for exaample, go ask the next 100 people you meet to walk on water or bring a dead person back to life. Only Jesus had the power to do that. But i know your response might be that you need to see to believe. Well not really, because people in Jesus' day saw these miracles and didn't believe - they in fact killed him because he did miracles. They also asked for signs and miracles after he had done many miracles, but then Jesus said the only sign you'll get is me dieing and living again - hence no dead body. Furthermore Jesus says that you are more blessed because you haven't seen, but still believe.

Religion has everything to do with happieness, for without basis rules of loving each other which came from God, MAN will destroy himself through hate. Whites killing blacks and the other way around and etc, etc. Men have now come up wit things like basic human right rights, but God and Jesus said many years ago to respect and love one another.

Ok i'll leave the jesus part for now. But, if religion has anything to do with kindness and happiness, then why did countries use god as an excuse for war then? That goes against any religion, because they think killing is wrong. If people fight, then surely they are not properly religious, since fighting goes against their beliefs. And finally, it wouldn't suprise me if ideas like pacifism originated from religion.



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
AstroGamer said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
DaRev said:
the2real4mafol said:
Interesting theory, but i'm atheist so i don't believe in god, which means I owe him nothing! I have what I have because of my family or my actions, a so called god didn't gave me any fortune or misfortune, it's up to me.

Any problems in this world are created by the selfish act of other people, not a god's incompetence


Yours is an interesting theory as well. For if you believe that all you or anyone has is a result of some human action - then where did you and all other humans themselves come from being able to create those actions to obtain stuff? Also, what about things like air and the sun which humans certainly did not create, where did they come from, logically?

You are right, we didn't create the sun or air or water, but neither did a god, we don't know where they came from, but we are lucky to have them. But I say we get stuff because of our own actions because we control what we do but also our lives are this way because of what people did in the past, people are willing to do things to get wealthier and advance the human race, which is nothing to do with a god. For example, medicine is much better than it ever was before, because people made it better and so more people live. 

But i see you like Nintendo, so i'll try to link to that. Say, if Miyamoto or anyone else didn't choose to expand Nintendo into gaming in the 1980's, great games like Mario or Zelda wouldn't of existed. That's my point

So, you just OK in knowing that things like the sun, air, NATURE exists and really don't care where they came from? Or are you to afraid that if you really thought about it, logically, you're might find that your way viewing the world and where it came from would fall apart?

Your correct that our lives are very depended on what we did in the past - for example, Jesus lived in the past and thus we has Christianity and all of its teachings that we are now debating and affecting our lives even today

As for Mr. Miyamoto, if you trace his ancestory back to his first orginal father and mother - where do you think they came from? Meanng who were the first Father and Mother on Earth?, logically speaking of course

I just don't think nature exists because of some god that probably don't exist anyway. It's impossible to know how life started on Earth and not other planets around it, so i just ignore that, nature was around before people or any religion.

Also, is there any proof that a Jesus existed in bethlehem 2000 years ago?

As for the last part, I don't think we could track back to the first humans, but whoever they were they just evolved from another animal species. I just believe in Charles Darwin's "survival of the fittest" theory, where things evolve to fit their environment best over time


On your second "paragraph" yes there is. First of all, even if jesus didn't exist, then the intricate teachings from the bible have to come from somewhere. That creator of those rather radical ideas of the time was "Jesus". Second of all, The sheer number of texts (both true and fake) mention Jesus's name. To universally come up with the same name at roughly same period of time would be highly improbable in 1st and 2nd century AD, so someone named Jesus was teaching these things around that time. Third of all, there are numerous pieces of historical evidence that even several textbooks accept that Jesus of Nazareth was alive and teaching this stuff around 0 AD. His miracles are still up to debate as it is hard to prove something like produce enough bread to feed 5000 from only a few loaves.

I view the genesis story as a neccesary evil. If we wanted complete "free will", then we needed to eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil (aka morality). Otherwise, we would be just like dogs, loyal to their master but not making rational choices. He then, punished us to get us to understand that bad things will be punished so that we don't go around commiting evil deeds repeatedly( like serial killers and such).    

Fair enough, but i just don't believe in it. I would have to see such things myself to believe it, it's just hard to tell if jesus and those events happened, or was there just loads of people called jesus around at that time?

You have a right/choice not to believe. But what if you're wrong and what if you right? Do you care?

I wouldn't care if people actually found Jesus or the Christian God, but it might actually convince me to be a Christian if they did find him. Hopefully, then it will stop the annoying eveangelicals and Jevoha's witness' knocking on doors, i fucking hate those people! But as of now, I'm a happy non religious person. 

That's fine.

But, because they never found him means he didn’t exist? Do you have to be able to locate ever dead person that ever lived, to confirm whether or not they did lived?

Anyways, the reason you can’t find Jesus is because he is risen and not dead – Christianity 101.

You realise that Christians are among the happiest people in the world right?



But that's the whole reason i don't believe in it. He could be anyone! I like to think there is a reason to anything, i like to know why. As for your last point, i don't think religion has anything to do with someone's happiness, it's just a coincidence that christians tend to be happy

no he cannot be anyone, for exaample, go ask the next 100 people you meet to walk on water or bring a dead person back to life. Only Jesus had the power to do that. But i know your response might be that you need to see to believe. Well not really, because people in Jesus' day saw these miracles and didn't believe - they in fact killed him because he did miracles. They also asked for signs and miracles after he had done many miracles, but then Jesus said the only sign you'll get is me dieing and living again - hence no dead body. Furthermore Jesus says that you are more blessed because you haven't seen, but still believe.

Religion has everything to do with happieness, for without basis rules of loving each other which came from God, MAN will destroy himself through hate. Whites killing blacks and the other way around and etc, etc. Men have now come up wit things like basic human right rights, but God and Jesus said many years ago to respect and love one another.

Ok i'll leave the jesus part for now. But, if religion has anything to do with kindness and happiness, then why did countries use god as an excuse for war then? That goes against any religion, because they think killing is wrong. If people fight, then surely they are not properly religious, since fighting goes against their beliefs. And finally, it wouldn't suprise me if ideas like pacifism originated from religion.

I agree with you. Jesus said Murder is wrong, so I believe wars are as well. See what Jesus says in Matthew 5 of the Bible (some of which i'm sure you've already heard but not used in the right context):

Murder

21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.

25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[h] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

 




Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.