I have visions of people spinning Smash Bros. as a genre, and then Microsoft gets into the act, and someone on a forum is going to accuse Microsoft's platform brawling being called a "ripoff" of All-Stars. Then EA and others jump into the mix to.

Control schemes, menus, aesthetics, etc are all superficial similarities imo. It's like saying Battlefield is a clone of Call of Duty. Or that Forza is a clone of Gran Turismo. Sure they look very similar, and the controls are similar, but it's not until you play it do you notice how differently the games actually are.

I haven't really been keeping up with the game, so I can't say how it's different. From what I've seen, it is similar, but to call it a clone is premature at this point.

all i'm saying is that this statement by you seems rather hypocritical when this is the only game you reffer to, even though there are several that fit this criteria

"Games that break the mold, challenge conventions, and change things up advance their respective genres."

you seem so passionate about the issue that i'd have expected you to pull your hair out of your head when games like the ones i mentioned were announced

yet not a peep... why is that?

I am saying that Smash Bros. is so iconic in its style that it is hard to do anything that is a platform fighter and it not look like a Smash Bros. clone.  Because it is so different, it is hard to get near it without looking like a knockoff.  Pretty much anyone doing a fighter would only do a 2D platform fighter because they see Smash Bros. sold.  Again, there area LOT of approaches one can take towards a fighting game.

As for Powerstone, it is a 3Dish platform fighter that appeared in the arcades and also on the Dreamcast:

Influenced maybe, but hardly a clone; even then that's a stretch. Either way, let the haters hate. IF Sony truly copied Nintendo, it's painfully obvious how utterly inelegant Nintendo is in their cosmetic designs (i.e., UI, rumble, analog).

1. That was pretty much my point.

2. Probably true. A 2D platforming fighter may be inspired by Smash Bros, but does that warrant it being a clone?

3. I know there a lot of approaches to fighting games. I'm talking about 2D platforming fighters. Because that genre is so closely associated with Smash Bros, any game within that genre will probably be called a clone, even if it plays differently.

I don't think a control scheme is a superficial difference, particularly in regards to a game like Smash which featured a control scheme that diverged very heavily from other games in the genre.  When you get into such specifics like rolling and airdodging, you're crossing the line.  From what I've seen and played, I'm very comfortable calling it a clone.  But once you've actually played it, feel free to let me know what the differences are.

o_O.Q said:

o_O.Q said:

all i'm saying is that this statement by you seems rather hypocritical when this is the only game you reffer to, even though there are several that fit this criteria

"Games that break the mold, challenge conventions, and change things up advance their respective genres."

you seem so passionate about the issue that i'd have expected you to pull your hair out of your head when games like the ones i mentioned were announced

yet not a peep... why is that?

Not a peep about those games?  Well, maybe that's because this was a topic made about Playstation All Stars Battle Royale?  Do I go around posting about PASBR in topics that have nothing to do with the game?  No.  So why exactly would I want to discuss Pikmin 3 in a topic about PASBR?

Again, this is a straw man argument, and I'm not going to address it.  You've basically ascribed positions to me that I never claimed to hold.  This topic is about PASBR and whether or not it is a rip off/clone/ whatever.  My quote was in regards to whether or not PASBR being a rip off is a good or a bad thing, and you're trying to deflect that issue by turning things into an argument about Nintendo's originality.  As I said, if you want to talk about Nintendo's originality, make a separate topic, and I'll be happy to discuss the matter in that topic.  This one is about PASBR.  If you want to talk about PASBR, go for it.  If not, then feel free to make another topic to discuss what you do want to talk about.

ok then so i'm guessing therefore that this

"Games that break the mold, challenge conventions, and change things up advance their respective genres."

for you only becomes important when the gaming company at hand is sony, however, for others such as nintendo it becomes irrelevant

 are my conclusions correct or am i spouting bs?

" you're trying to deflect that issue by turning things into an argument about Nintendo's originality."

as stated above i was addressing this point you made

"Games that break the mold, challenge conventions, and change things up advance their respective genres."

from my interpretation you weren't just reffering to one game there but all or was i wrong?

edit: and as i've said before in terms of this game being a copy, rip off whatever...

the game director says himself in the op that the game takes elements from several different games and superbot has never denied that

EDIT

There are plenty of games with similar control schemes that aren't clones, even within the fighter genre. After looking at PABR's control scheme, it seemed like a pretty basic control scheme for most fighters to me; nothing looked like something you'd only find in SSB. I don't see how control scheme contributes to a game being a clone. 

Rolling and airdodging? Rolling is seen in plenty of games. As for airdodging, sure, it's not in many games aside from SSB. But it's probably absent in most games because most games aren't designed where characters can jump high and at a fast pace, making airdodging out of place. For a game that is fast-paced and allow characters to jump high, I would expect airdodging to come without it being an act of cloning SSB. People have their own definition of clones, I guess.