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Forums - General - Is meat-eating morally wrong?

 

Answer the damn question!

Absolutely not. 150 53.38%
 
No, but the treatment of animals is wrong. 89 31.67%
 
Yes, but I'm still gonna eat meat. 16 5.69%
 
Yes, and I'm lowering my meat-intake 12 4.27%
 
Yes, and I don't eat meat. 14 4.98%
 
Total:281
kowenicki said:
Barozi said:
Jay520 said:
kowenicki said:
Absolutely not.

Easy.

I had a full English in 1st class on the Virgin Pendo train on the way to London this morning, I particularly enjoyed the Lincolnshire sausage, bacon and black pudding. Perfect start to the day.

Yum.


What's a full English? Perhaps you could ease up on the UK jargon?

probably a rotten shoe or something.

Hilarious.Yawn.

 

its a proper sausage (not that shite spicy German or American crappy flat sausage), egg (over easy), grilled tomato, proper bacon (again not that crap euro garbage), black pudding, toast.  Awesome.

just a minute here!

there are hundreds of kinds of delicious german sausages in all variations. If you call something "shite spicy german sausage" then it is what english people think german sausage is or should be like, not what it actually is or could be like.

...same goes for bacon



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

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Nothing that yummy can be wrong.



SlayerRondo said:
Jay520 said:
spurgeonryan said:

You know that is not what I am saying. So should we just let animals live and take over the planet? How far should we over step our bounds as humans?


Huh? I don't understand your question.

All I'm saying is if something is found in nature, that doesn't necessarily mean it's okay for Humans to do the same thing.


Why is it ok for animals to do the natural thing and eat meat but not humans?
Because its not natural for us and wildlife animals have a chance we just have our animal "prisons" and kill the ones we want. They have no fair chance to survive at all.

Does it not have the same outcome for both of them with animals dying?
No see above. Plus wildlife animals kill other animals because they are hungry. We do it because of profit and because we are bored and want to eat. We kill more than we "need" to.  Plus tons of meat are wasted because it is thrown away after reaching its expiration date.

Why not kill off all the animals who eat meat to save the vegetearing animals?
Because this would manipulate the natural food chain etc. And mess up the environment. BTW This argument makes not sense at all.

Because that would lead to other animals overpopulating and messing up the environment!
Guess what! We are animals too and we are overpopulated and are #1 at messing up the environment. So lets kill 95% of all people okay? Sorry but NONSENSE again.

How do you not know that but fore there use as food for people chickens, cows and pigs would have gone extict or will go extinct in the future? If we never removed them from their natural habitat and if we never destroyed that habitat there would be a big chance of wild chickens running around etc. BTW there is still wild chickens on this planet noone bothers to find them.

Is it not better to live a short life and be made food rather than to have been wiped out centuries age?
No why would it be better? Is it better to kill 1 year old babies than to maturbate? of course not.

While the living conditions of animals need to be improved there is no evidence that they experience emotions (that cant be explained by instincts) or desire a future which are essential when determining the worth of a creatures life to itself. There is prove they show emotions so please educate yourself before saying something like that. There was a myth that fish doesnt have emotions  but even this is now proven false!  And btw what do emotions have to do with anything? Why not its okay to kill everything that cant say PLEASE DONT! Its just some kind of excuse to keep killing animals.

PS: As far as science goes in the next couple of decades we will be able to produce meat without any awarness or intelligence at all. In my opinion this is bad as then the animals wont even have a short life to live as they will no longer be bred at all. There are billions of pigs in the world and barely any Polar bears. Which one do we eat again? Even tho meat is unnecessary for humans to survive. Lab meat is a good idea becaue it wastes less ressources in producing the meat. (you dont waste ressources to create eyes teeth noone wants to eat.
And doestn require anyone to kill animals.


We "created" those billions of pigs thats why they are there.





would it be wrong to eat the meat of a animal that lived in their natural habitat and died of natural causes?



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

Humans ate meat since our beginning. We "can" live solely off of plants, but something that takes that much self control and willpower to maintain is fighting human impulses itself.

Slaughter is necessary to mass produce to feed millions of people at a time. You cant be "humane" in a slaughter house, its a oxymoron. But its the only way to mass produce for millions at a time.

And as a personal note, if it means feeding people and creating jobs, we as humans can do whatever the hell we want to other animals so long as they serve a benefit to us. Were sentient and they aren't. Earth is our world, b*&ch! (not calling anybody here that).



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superchunk said:

1. Religious point of view: Every religion has it as an allowed option in our diets.

2. Scientific point of view: Our bodies have evolved to not only have meat as part of our natural diet, but its required otherwise you could go blind or have many other deficiencies as certain things ONLY come from meat protein. Furthermore, a simple study of our ancestors proves that the species with healthy amounts of meat in its diet had the biggest evolutionary changes to larger brains... obviously an important part our current physiology. (If you try to argue a case for Vegans, then you don't know shit as they are required to take vitamins to make up for what is lost in not eating any meat products and taking medicines is not natural... just eat an appropriate meal.)

3. Nature point of view: There is simply no case on this planet (and probably others we'll eventually find) where there exists entire biosphere where one species does not eats/consumes another. Its simply the natural factor of life. Its also a very important driver of evolution as well as population control.

What about the moral point of view?



SlayerRondo said:


1. Response: Yes while i agree that animals dont want to become food i believe that stems from the fact that they dont have desires and wants but rather instinct. You could equally say that most animals dont desire to go on living as there intelligence is to low to consider what life means.

2. Response: Yes while the treatment of some animals i farms in inhumane that is more an argument for buying products such as free range eggs and the like if you believe that animals appreciate comfort of life the dame way humans do.

3. Response: It is believed that the cooked meat eaten by our early ancestors is responsible for providing us with the nutrients to evolve into the intelligent beings we are today.

4. Response: As stated eating meat is partialy responsible for us becoming the intelligent beings we our today as well as the fact that we have canines strongly indicating that we as humans were meant to eat meat. 

5. Response: Animals dont have a future in the way that humans do. Pigs and cows dont reminice about the past or look forward to the future the way humans do and without both of them what would people be? Just a bunch of creatures experiencing things one by one not knowing who we are or what purpose we may have or had for ourselves? Pigs and cows would not care one way or the other if they could know that they were going to die the next day because they function on instinct rather than emotion. Without emotions life would not be worth living. At best the only purpose animals could achive with their life would be to provide food for beings that could properly appreciate it like humans.

6. Also a new Question. Youre looking at this glass half empty rather than half full. Assuming people in the future raised cows and pigs with the highest living standards for animals would you rather the cows and pigs not be bread and used for food having at least some life before dying rather than them not being bread at all? Seems better to live for a day than not at all doesnt it? Dont forget that many of these animals could not survive in the wild or breed at the same levels they do on farms.

 


You don't have to re-copy what I typed. That's what the quotes are for,

1. It depends on how you're measuring intelligence. Pigs have shown to be qiute smart actually. Source 1 and Source 2

2. True

3. True, but that doesn't apply today. That's why we have vitamins.

4. Same as above. We have less damaging alternatives.

5. I've already showed you how smart pigs can be, so it's up to you to decide if that's smart 'enough.' Also, where did you read that mammals didn't have emotions?

6. That would solve one of the problems, but it still wouldn't solve my first point about forcing animals to be food. 

Also, just because other animals would do the same in the wilderness doesn't mean it's okay for humans in civilization to do so..



You seem to be indicating that the presence of a central nervous system or absence of a cell wall disqualifies a living thing of being food for humans.

Fear and pain are natural defense mechanisms present to help a species survive and thrive. It does not make it wrong to eat them. Plants are living things too. I do not see how, because a cow can feel pain, it makes it a species that should get special treatment when a carrot does not.

We do not eat things like dogs and cats because we have a pet-master bond with these species and we personalize the action due to our experiences. Very few people have had a pet cow or pet pig, and those who have generally do not eat those animals for the very reason.

Our teeth structure alone suggest an omnivorous diet. We were never "meant" to eat any kind of food, we are "equipped" to be omnivorous.

All animal life depends on the death of some other life for survival. I could easily make the argument "I don't eat plants because I think it is morally wrong to eat a living thing that has no natural defense mechanism"



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SlayerRondo said:


How do you know that?

Were you not saying that determining the consciousness of living beings was ambiguos?


Plants have no brain or nervous system.



if we don't eat them.. they'll eat us..

/thread



 

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