slowmo said: So bleeding billions this last 6 years means all is fine with the PlayStation brand. You guys are starting to sound as misguided as Sega fans were towards the end. If drastic changes aren't made in strategy then yes they are in trouble, we will know more when the PS4 is released though.

Perhaps you didn't read the thread. No one here is asserting that Playstation isn't in trouble or doesn't need any changes. Most are saying that they won't be eliminated from the market in the foreseeable future.

slowmo said: So bleeding billions this last 6 years means all is fine with the PlayStation brand. You guys are starting to sound as misguided as Sega fans were towards the end. If drastic changes aren't made in strategy then yes they are in trouble, we will know more when the PS4 is released though.

1. It took SEGA a combination of like 4 consecutive "failed" products before they left the hardware business.

2. I don't think the PS3 is anywhere close to being a failure. If current sales are any indication, I think it could last well into the next generation of consoles.

TheBardsSong said: slowmo said: So bleeding billions this last 6 years means all is fine with the PlayStation brand. You guys are starting to sound as misguided as Sega fans were towards the end. If drastic changes aren't made in strategy then yes they are in trouble, we will know more when the PS4 is released though. 1. It took SEGA a combination of like 4 consecutive "failed" products before they left the hardware business. 2. I don't think the PS3 is anywhere close to being a failure. If current sales are any indication, I think it could last well into the next generation of consoles.

1.  It took two generations technically (Saturn and Dreamcast), the 32X and Mega-CD were addons and not sperate hardware products.  The PS3 could be seen as similar to the Saturn in it's decline of market share, difficulty to develop for, dislike by 3rd parties, etc, etc.  Lets see how the PS4 turns out now as I said.  If it doesn't gather a lot of interest quickly then its on dangerous ground.  I would also hardly call the PSP or Vita big money spinners for Sony so there is potentially 3 "failed" products already.  I only include the PSP because it's clear they didn't make much money off the hardware and software sales were poor (I realise its successful if you only consider hardware shipped).

2.  That is where we vastly differ in opinion then.  What is the measure of success because it's losing in every single metric going from a business perspective.  It lost profit, it lost market share, it's damaged the company image (PSN debacle), it didn't meet Sony's expected shipment projections or their financial targets.  In fact I don't think they've hit a single financial target since the PS3 has been on sale.  Current sales aren't that great either as they've been down yoy  for most of the year.  It will continue to sell of course into the next gen but well below the numbers currently sold, probably to the region of sub 5 million a year within 2 years which means it's still way down on marketshare.  It's taken 6 years to get the sales it has now, it's not going to ecplode and gain 80 million sales in the next few years.

Andrespetmonkey said: slowmo said: So bleeding billions this last 6 years means all is fine with the PlayStation brand.  No. I acknowledged the devastating PS3 launch - and it was 4 years, not 6. You guys are starting to sound as misguided as Sega fans were towards the end. If drastic changes aren't made in strategy then yes they are in trouble, we will know more when the PS4 is released though. Drastic changes have been made, I gave examples and they were major points in the article. Did you even read it?

Yes I read your article, I found it overly rose tinted and lacking in any evidence at all tbh.  Just some of the gems that I found rather funny.

"The PS3 launched at $500-600 with hardly a compelling exclusive a year after the 360 launched for $300-400, and yet that initial laughable cock-up of a console is going to pass 70M in sales and it outsells the 360 (Total sales divided by years on market). I think that’s a testament to just how powerful the Playstation brand is, and just how relevant it is. Sony can utterly and completely mess up the launch of a console, and then it goes on to sell 70M."

You say the current market strength is down to brand, that is in fact wrong as you've already admitted.  The simple fact is Sony tokk huge losses on hardware to get to a price point the hardware seemed reasonable value.  This is not brand strength, it's desperate marketing fueled by the profits of the PS2.

 

"Now, although the PS3′s situation has been turned around to become a flourishing money-making console"

There is no evidence to back up this statement but I'll conceed it's now not losing money but it's certainly not flourishing going by the financials.

 

"It takes a small loss, and will make up for all costs (R&D + initial loses) in 3 years, predicted by Sony" - regardin PS Vita

Do you realise how bad Sony have been at these predictions, look at their PSV shipment estimates to see how unlikely this is.

 

"Lack of software support is a problem that’s never existed on a Sony home-console and though it’s still a potential problem, it’s a mistake Sony can now learn from, just as they learned a lesson about hardware with the PS3."

Software was always the issue with PSP yet Sony learnt nothing yet they are suddenly now going to change their ethos????

 

"So there you have it, those are my thoughts on the subject. In a nutshell I think Playstation is in a better position than most think, and they’ve made great, promising strides in the last 5 years. What do you think?"

I admire that this article says it's based on opinion right at the very end because it sums up what I've highlighted above, there is no factual basis that any of the conclusions were drawn.  The've gone from being a complete disaster to a competitor in the market at the cost of billions.  I think the future depends on them getting everything right with the PS4 and to me it seems they still haven't learnt a lot of lessons yet. 

 

P.S I didn't bother commenting on your studios paragraph because it is horrendously biased and entirely based on opinion which I cannot change no matter how much I post.  Lets just say Nintendo and Microsoft both have bigger 1st party IP's according to sales.

Jay520 said: slowmo said: So bleeding billions this last 6 years means all is fine with the PlayStation brand. You guys are starting to sound as misguided as Sega fans were towards the end. If drastic changes aren't made in strategy then yes they are in trouble, we will know more when the PS4 is released though. Perhaps you didn't read the thread. No one here is asserting that Playstation isn't in trouble or doesn't need any changes. Most are saying that they won't be eliminated from the market in the foreseeable future.

Actually the OP is stating that the brand isn't in much trouble, perhaps you didn't read it?

slowmo said: Jay520 said: slowmo said: So bleeding billions this last 6 years means all is fine with the PlayStation brand. You guys are starting to sound as misguided as Sega fans were towards the end. If drastic changes aren't made in strategy then yes they are in trouble, we will know more when the PS4 is released though. Perhaps you didn't read the thread. No one here is asserting that Playstation isn't in trouble or doesn't need any changes. Most are saying that they won't be eliminated from the market in the foreseeable future. Actually the OP is stating that the brand isn't in much trouble, perhaps you didn't read it?

No, it said the brand wasn't in as much trouble as some people think. By 'some people,' he's referring to people that say Playstation is doomed. I know this because he says so in the title and by this sentence which precedes the body of his article: " Here’s why I think Sony isn’t doomed, and why the PS4 is in a much better position than you might think:"

No where does he say, in absolute terms, that Sony is not in trouble. He's saying, in relation to some people, it's not in as much trouble as some people think. What he is saying in absolute terms is that Sony isn't doomed.

Jay520 said: slowmo said: Jay520 said: slowmo said: So bleeding billions this last 6 years means all is fine with the PlayStation brand. You guys are starting to sound as misguided as Sega fans were towards the end. If drastic changes aren't made in strategy then yes they are in trouble, we will know more when the PS4 is released though. Perhaps you didn't read the thread. No one here is asserting that Playstation isn't in trouble or doesn't need any changes. Most are saying that they won't be eliminated from the market in the foreseeable future. Actually the OP is stating that the brand isn't in much trouble, perhaps you didn't read it? No, it said the brand wasn't in as much trouble as some people think. By 'some people,' he's referring to people that say Playstation is doomed. I know this because he says so in the title and by this sentence which precedes the body of his article: " Here’s why I think Sony isn’t doomed, and why the PS4 is in a much better position than you might think:" No where does he say, in absolute terms, that Sony is not in trouble. He's saying, in relation to some people, it's not in as much trouble as some people think. What he is saying in absolute terms is that Sony isn't doomed.

"I think a lot of it is understandable and some completely reasonable, but it’s a glass-half-empty perspective that’s largely unfair. Here’s why I think Sony isn’t doomed, and why the PS4 is in a much better position than you might think"

That's pretty clear to me that he's saying Sony isn't trouble and in fact the position is much better.  It's from the first paragraph.  The definitive statement is the bolded section.  He is pretty clearly saying that he can understand why people think Sony are in trouble but he will not conceed the point they are because he states it's "largely unfair".  That my friend is as absolute as you get imo.

slowmo said: Jay520 said: slowmo said: Jay520 said: slowmo said: So bleeding billions this last 6 years means all is fine with the PlayStation brand. You guys are starting to sound as misguided as Sega fans were towards the end. If drastic changes aren't made in strategy then yes they are in trouble, we will know more when the PS4 is released though. Perhaps you didn't read the thread. No one here is asserting that Playstation isn't in trouble or doesn't need any changes. Most are saying that they won't be eliminated from the market in the foreseeable future. Actually the OP is stating that the brand isn't in much trouble, perhaps you didn't read it? No, it said the brand wasn't in as much trouble as some people think. By 'some people,' he's referring to people that say Playstation is doomed. I know this because he says so in the title and by this sentence which precedes the body of his article: " Here’s why I think Sony isn’t doomed, and why the PS4 is in a much better position than you might think:" No where does he say, in absolute terms, that Sony is not in trouble. He's saying, in relation to some people, it's not in as much trouble as some people think. What he is saying in absolute terms is that Sony isn't doomed. "I think a lot of it is understandable and some completely reasonable, but it’s a glass-half-empty perspective that’s largely unfair. Here’s why I think Sony isn’t doomed, and why the PS4 is in a much better position than you might think" That's pretty clear to me that he's saying Sony isn't trouble and in fact the position is much better.  It's from the first paragraph.  The definitive statement is the bolded section.  He is pretty clearly saying that he can understand why people think Sony are in trouble but he will not conceed the point they are because he states it's "largely unfair".  That my friend is as absolute as you get imo.

lol dude you cant cherry pick lines like that....

APM clearly states "I think a lot of it is understandable and some completely reasonable". Hes argument is that Sony is not AS doomed as people are claiming it to be...not that they are not doomed at all

PS4 should be launched without a lot of positives behind it. The vita on the other hand...

I'll say this: in 2005/6 people were all saying the same thing about Nintendo. 'Will go the way of Sega' was the common refrain. Then Nintendo launched the Wii and shut everyone up.

So if Nintendo can do it, certainly Sony can too. However, I've yet to see/hear anything about Orbis/PS4 which makes me think Sony has 'gotten' it. I feel they have lost touch with the market - as seen with Vita.