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Forums - Gaming - Sony fighting to stay relevant?

VicViper said:
leo-j said:

people shouldn't ignore that one of the BIGGEST and probably MOST RELEVANT REASON why the PLAYSTATION 3 failed and fell well behind the XBOX 360 and NINTENDO WII early on is because sony launched a console for $600 expecting people to work a 2nd job to buy a playstation console.. Sony had a great line  up their first year... RESISTANCE/MOTORSTORM/UNCHARTED 1/RATCHET AND CLANK/CALL OF DUTY 4/ASSASSINS CREED/HEAVENLY SWORD/and more.. but.. their price just almost destroyed any chance of them even competing for a couple of years.. yet they still managed with the 40gb ps3..

price/PSN were probably the biggest reasons why sony fell behind and are catching up today

Yeah, but even now... when Sony simply outshines MS in nearly every category when it comes to games and features, and the price is affordable... they don't sell that much more like they should, logically (http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/09/26/playstation-conversation-why-does-the-360-lose-exclusives)

That could only be argued for the last few years. During these last few years, the PS3 has been outselling the 360. But 360 had the better games and much better price during the first half of the gen. Even if some think the PS3's lineup is better than the 360's now, 1.) it's only a marginal advantage, and 2.) the 360 still has the advantage of having gaining such market penetration and momentum during the years of 2005-2008. 

Not too mention the fact that during the recent few years, the Xbox had Kinect which countered any advantage the PS3 had with exclusives.

The start of this gen had Microsoft pretty much outclassing Sony in every department. Games, Price, Feautres, etc. The 360 tapped itself into certain markets first by releasing early, then they solidified their position as Sony kept making terrible decisions. By the time PS3 really became a quality AND affordable console, a lot of regions were already "Xbox Land" and Sony being a bit better isn't going to change that. 

P.S. That link is broken



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Jay520 said:
VicViper said:
leo-j said:

people shouldn't ignore that one of the BIGGEST and probably MOST RELEVANT REASON why the PLAYSTATION 3 failed and fell well behind the XBOX 360 and NINTENDO WII early on is because sony launched a console for $600 expecting people to work a 2nd job to buy a playstation console.. Sony had a great line  up their first year... RESISTANCE/MOTORSTORM/UNCHARTED 1/RATCHET AND CLANK/CALL OF DUTY 4/ASSASSINS CREED/HEAVENLY SWORD/and more.. but.. their price just almost destroyed any chance of them even competing for a couple of years.. yet they still managed with the 40gb ps3..

price/PSN were probably the biggest reasons why sony fell behind and are catching up today

Yeah, but even now... when Sony simply outshines MS in nearly every category when it comes to games and features, and the price is affordable... they don't sell that much more like they should, logically (http://www.ign.com/videos/2012/09/26/playstation-conversation-why-does-the-360-lose-exclusives)

That could only be argued for the last few years. During these last few years, the PS3 has been outselling the 360. But 360 had the better games and much better price during the first half of the gen. Even if some think the PS3's lineup is better than the 360's now, 1.) it's only a marginal advantage, and 2.) the 360 still has the advantage of having gaining such market penetration and momentum during the years of 2005-2008. 

Not too mention the fact that during the recent few years, the Xbox had Kinect which countered any advantage the PS3 had with exclusives.

The start of this gen had Microsoft pretty much outclassing Sony in every department. Games, Price, Feautres, etc. The 360 tapped itself into certain markets first by releasing early, then they solidified their position as Sony kept making terrible decisions. By the time PS3 really became a quality AND affordable console, a lot of regions were already "Xbox Land" and Sony being a bit better isn't going to change that. 

P.S. That link is broken

Remove the bracket in the link.



leo-j said:
sales2099 said:
Cause lets be honest, Sony has no Mario or Halo to carry the console.

and about 1st party exclusives selling less and less... look at Uncharted 3.. and I'm sure god of war Ascension will top at least 4 million copies..


@sales2099: Sony has Gran Turismo which is just as big for Sony as Halo is for Xbox and Mario for Nintendo. Why do people always overlook Sony's biggest IP when talking about sales of Sony exclusives? Baffling. 

@leo-j: If you're going to give an example of a good selling PS3 exclusive perhaps it's a good idea to name one that isn't mass bundled like GT5 or GoW3 which both cleared 5 million with ease, otherwise you could list LittleBigPlanet/ Resistance: FoM/ Motorstorm which like Uncharted depend on mass bundling to sell well. Also God of War III passed 5.2 million ages ago and is looking at 6-6.25 million lifetime, God of War: Ascension will do a lot more than 4 million, it'll do at least 5.5 million lifetime and could stop between 6.25-7m depending on how much support Sony gives the game and on when the PS4 arrives. God of War: Ascension is Sony's last BIG exclusive so I'm expecting and hoping that Sony go all out marketing, promoting, advertising and maybe for once even give a God of War game the bundle treatment! If GoW3 reached 5.2m in a little over 2 years whilst launching during a PS3 shortages when the install base was half what it is now, with hardly any bundling and awful support from Sony then if Sony actually make an excellent effort supporting GoW: Ascension and bundle it as much as their other IPs then I believe it can easily sell 7m+ lifetime. 

At the end of the day, sales-wise roughly; GT = Halo and GoW = GeoW. All these franchises carry the consoles and attract many millions more gamers than any other PS/Xbox exclusives.

And no, Sony is not fighting to stay relevant, their arrogance after the PS2's success made them think that the PS3 would sell well even at a ridiculously expensive price and it took the PS3 took at least 2 years before it arguably had its first 'killer app' with MGS4. Not forgetting that the Xbox 360 is massively successful for Microsoft and attracted a lot of PS2/Gamecube owners looking to upgrade to next generation consoles. Sony made massive mistakes with the PS3 which they now know what not to do next generation.

I think Sony should pull out of the dedicated handheld market and make mobile games for IOS/Android etc. They should concentrate on making the PS4 as great as possible by making sure it's price is affordable, it has the must have software at launch and continuously in the following years and it has to offer more than just spectacular graphics, it needs a gimmick. 



Why the PS brand and PS4 is in a better position than you might think: http://www.gamingcapacity.com/why-sony-is-not-doomed/



It could go either way next gen. Nintendo was largely irrelevant after Gamecube but then shot back with the Wii.

If Sony push the Playstation brand by actually make use of their TV business, the acquisition of Gaikai and their wider departments then they could at the very least stay as relevant they are now. However, we've seen how Sony can have big ideas which never fulfil their potential (Xperia Play, PSP Go) so it really could go either way. In the handheld space they're largely irrelevant already.



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arcane_chaos said:
the articles listed here have a "looking at the glass half-empty" feel

yes had an absolute horrible start, but has really picked up their game these last couple of years; i'd say since 2009 with the "revision" and abundance of first-party titles. if any thing Sony has put them selves more on the map with just their critically acclaimed first-party games such as Uncharted, Heavy Rain, Littlebigplanet, Infamous, God of war, Killzone. Yes the PlayStation division is nowhere near what Sony wants it to be, be it's far better than where it was in 2006. I don't know where Sony draws the line for losing money, but after spending 2.2 bil on that music company and another 380 mil on Gaikai, it still seems Sony's pocket are somewhat deep. and with the PS3 "slim" coming out Sony is bound to make up for some of their losses

as for the Vita, I won't consider it a flop just yet, the product hasn't been out for a year yet, and hasn't gotten itself a full holiday season to show what impact it can do. if it goes the route of the PS3 I wouldn't call it a failure. I could be wrong and this information could be incorrect but I remember someone making a thread saying that the vita cost about $160 to make, though that doesn't make the vita profitable from the get-go, it could mean that it can reach profitability after all the R&D costs.

I have serious doubts about Vita's profitability; and I believe UMB's research was spun out of context by many pro-Sony fans in the industry (but that's another matter.)  Yes according to eurogamer the total build of the Vita is $160, BUT MANY OF THOSE TOTALS DIDN'T ADD UP to what I expect them to cost.

Let's look at Eurogamer's total for the WiFi model I believe  (which seems to be underpriced IMHO):

  • Display and touchscreens: $50
  • Battery: $3.60
  • Cameras: $3.50
  • Wi-Fi/BT/GPS: $3.50
  • NAND: $6.00
  • SDRAM: $9.25
  • Processor: $16.00 (really only $6 more than the 3DS; must not be that much more powerful)
  • BB+XCR: $16.25
  • Non-electronic: $11.00
  • Other: $30.00
  • Supporting materials: $10.00.

now lets take a look at the 3DS which totals $100.71

  • 3DS display(both): $33.8
  • Processor:  $10
  • Camera's: $4.70 (must be better camera's than Vita's since it cost more)
  • Battery: $3.50
  • MEMS/gyros: $6.80
  • RAM $8.36 (FCRAM must cost a whole lot more since 3DS only has 128MB vs 512MB for Vita)
  • Manufacturing: $2.54

sources:

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Nintendo-3DS-Carries-$100-71-Bill-of-Materials-IHS-iSuppli-Physical-Teardown-Reveals.aspx

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-20-is-the-playstation-vita-worth-230

and despite only costing $100.71 to make(at launch) and selling at $170,  the 3DS still sold at a loss until July 2012 when the hardware finally sold for a profit.  I have serious doubts that Sony is turning a profit on the Vita; and Mr. Kaz Hirai also echoed that the Vita won't be profitable until after 3 years of launch. http://www.gamespot.com/news/e3-2011-vita-to-be-profitable-within-3-years-sony-6318239   Sony has always, always sold their hardware for a loss and that doesn't seem like it changed with the Vita as well!!! Hopefully with the upcoming PS4, they have learned their lesson and sell their system break-even or for a profit. (hence, why I think the PS4 won't be that much more significantly more powerful than the Wii U....durango yes, PS4 no).


 



arcane_chaos said:


as for the Vita, I won't consider it a flop just yet, the product hasn't been out for a year yet, and hasn't gotten itself a full holiday season to show what impact it can do. if it goes the route of the PS3 I wouldn't call it a failure. I could be wrong and this information could be incorrect but I remember someone making a thread saying that the vita cost about $160 to make, though that doesn't make the vita profitable from the get-go, it could mean that it can reach profitability after all the R&D costs.


So if the Vita doesn't sell 10 mil units total worldwide  after 03/2013 you will admit it's a flop? Because at 10 months in Japan and 7 months worlwide the system had struggled to sell 2-3mil units.  I don't see them doubling that number without a price cut.



Each and every generation are new cards dealt. Nintendo was in the same place a couple generations ago for two generations. With Gameboy brand as an X-factor in this case, I cannot say if Sony was in a better position, but I'd wager Sony could restructure themselves to profitability without having to reestablish their brand the same way Nintendo did with their Wii.



JustThatGamer said:
leo-j said:
sales2099 said:
Cause lets be honest, Sony has no Mario or Halo to carry the console.

and about 1st party exclusives selling less and less... look at Uncharted 3.. and I'm sure god of war Ascension will top at least 4 million copies..


@sales2099: Sony has Gran Turismo which is just as big for Sony as Halo is for Xbox and Mario for Nintendo. Why do people always overlook Sony's biggest IP when talking about sales of Sony exclusives? Baffling. 

@leo-j: If you're going to give an example of a good selling PS3 exclusive perhaps it's a good idea to name one that isn't mass bundled like GT5 or GoW3 which both cleared 5 million with ease, otherwise you could list LittleBigPlanet/ Resistance: FoM/ Motorstorm which like Uncharted depend on mass bundling to sell well. Also God of War III passed 5.2 million ages ago and is looking at 6-6.25 million lifetime, God of War: Ascension will do a lot more than 4 million, it'll do at least 5.5 million lifetime and could stop between 6.25-7m depending on how much support Sony gives the game and on when the PS4 arrives. God of War: Ascension is Sony's last BIG exclusive so I'm expecting and hoping that Sony go all out marketing, promoting, advertising and maybe for once even give a God of War game the bundle treatment! If GoW3 reached 5.2m in a little over 2 years whilst launching during a PS3 shortages when the install base was half what it is now, with hardly any bundling and awful support from Sony then if Sony actually make an excellent effort supporting GoW: Ascension and bundle it as much as their other IPs then I believe it can easily sell 7m+ lifetime. 

At the end of the day, sales-wise roughly; GT = Halo and GoW = GeoW. All these franchises carry the consoles and attract many millions more gamers than any other PS/Xbox exclusives.

And no, Sony is not fighting to stay relevant, their arrogance after the PS2's success made them think that the PS3 would sell well even at a ridiculously expensive price and it took the PS3 took at least 2 years before it arguably had its first 'killer app' with MGS4. Not forgetting that the Xbox 360 is massively successful for Microsoft and attracted a lot of PS2/Gamecube owners looking to upgrade to next generation consoles. Sony made massive mistakes with the PS3 which they now know what not to do next generation.

I think Sony should pull out of the dedicated handheld market and make mobile games for IOS/Android etc. They should concentrate on making the PS4 as great as possible by making sure it's price is affordable, it has the must have software at launch and continuously in the following years and it has to offer more than just spectacular graphics, it needs a gimmick. 

GT does not equal Halo because of one word: frequency. One full GT game per gen isnt that big a deal over the course of 7 years. This whole gen, compare total Halo game sales vs total GT game sales. Fact is that franchise takes too damn long to stay relevant. 

Uncharted is the new king because it has more lifetime franchise sales this gen then GT. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
pezus said:
sales2099 said:
Vita situation, PS3 red ink, lost marketshare are the big 3.

PS3's only saving grace is their ability to pump out core retail games. But again, aside from the vocal minority who praise Sony for this, sales of such exclusives are dropping fast every year (looking at LBP karting, PASBR, and Sly preorders).

Sonys success in past gens was due to the 3rd party industry more then anything else. Now that costs are high, multiplats are just the way to go. And there goes Sonys former ace in the hole. Cause lets be honest, Sony has no Mario or Halo to carry the console.

Halo does not carry a console...MS is just as reliant on 3rd party as Sony is, just look at last gen.

It totally carried Xbox 1. Halo CE made the launch a success and Halo 2 saved Live as a subscription based service.

This gen I'd say Halo still has a hefty responsibility, offsetted by MS increased 3rd party support this gen.

lol I remember those days when everyone used to call it the "Halo Box".