By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Sony fighting to stay relevant?

Jay520 said:
HappySqurriel said:

A large portion of XBox 360 and PS3 owners this generation (possibly more than half) bought a Wii first. 

How do you know this?


I don't think there is any dispute about the "large portion" comment, because that is fairly open to interpretation, but the "possibly more than half" comes from personal experience ...

Everyone I know who owns a console (that I know of) is a multi-console owner and bought the Wii first. From 2006 to 2008 everyone bought their Wii, and most of them picked up a XBox 360 or PS3 after that when their prices became more reasonable. When you look at hardware sales and how the Wii sold (roughly) as many as the PS3 and XBox 360 combined until the end of 2009 it is not that unreasonable of an assumption.

edit: NPD data from 2009:

Cross-Ownership*
According to the reports, among Wii owners in the United States (who represent 32 percent of all gamers), 14 percent also own a PlayStation 3, and 26 percent own an Xbox 360. Among PlayStation 3 owners (who currently represent 10 percent of all gamers), 42 percent own a Wii and 34 percent own an Xbox 360. However, among Xbox 360 owners (20 percent of all gamers), 42 percent own a Wii, but only 18 percent own a PlayStation 3.

   
Those who own the following console ...
  Wii PS3 360
Also
own
a ...
Wii 100% 42 42
PS3 14 100% 18
360 26 34 100%

*Note: Ownership refers to self or household ownership


Around the Network
pezus said:
HappySqurriel said:
Jay520 said:
HappySqurriel said:

A large portion of XBox 360 and PS3 owners this generation (possibly more than half) bought a Wii first. 

How do you know this?


I don't think there is any dispute about the "large portion" comment, because that is fairly open to interpretation, but the "possibly more than half" comes from personal experience ...

Everyone I know who owns a console (that I know of) is a multi-console owner and bought the Wii first. From 2006 to 2008 everyone bought their Wii, and most of them picked up a XBox 360 or PS3 after that when their prices became more reasonable. When you look at hardware sales and how the Wii sold (roughly) as many as the PS3 and XBox 360 combined until the end of 2009 it is not that unreasonable of an assumption.

No, no, no, then you're assuming a large portion of gamers actually own more than one console. I find that very hard to believe.

check my edit



HappySqurriel said:


1. I'm not talking about exclusives in a strict sense of the term ... If 1/3 of developers who worked on HD console only games are now focused on Wii U games, and another 1/3 include the Wii U in their multiplatform approach, the dynamics of each platforms library will change dramatically. Getting people to spend $400 to $600 for a platform is hard enough, but if you're in competition with a platform that is $300 (or less) and has a similar number of high quality games you're in trouble.

2. I don't see any reason to believe that the Wii would have "died earlier" had it launched earlier, when its strong sales would have meant that it had sold 60+ million units before the XBox 360 was $300 or the PS3 was $400; this would have (likely) resulted in substantially stronger third party support in 2008 and beyond.

3. A handful of games do not make a library

1. That makes more sense. But the way you worded you're post was weird. You said "potentially having damaged relationships with third party publishers due to the PS-Vita, there is a risk that the PS4 won't have a chance to be (particularly) successful.By saying "having damaged relationships, it seemed like you were saying Sony wouldn't be trusted anymore. What you're saying is not a result of the Vita, it's a result of the Wii U.

In any case, I don't see the Wii U having some multiplatform games as sparking much of a problem for the PS4/720. We'll see though.

2. Like I said, it's impossible to know.

3. Fair Enough



pezus said:
HappySqurriel said:
pezus said:

No, no, no, then you're assuming a large portion of gamers actually own more than one console. I find that very hard to believe.

check my edit

Yes, but that is data from 2009 and even worse, it's USA only. USA is the country that spends by far the most on consoles and console software. The ratio will be far lower in the rest of the world.

Maybe, but every time I've seen similar studies (which is not that common) it has come up with similar results; that between 1/3 and 2/3 of console owners owned multiple systems, and the most common pairings were the XBox 360 and Wii, and PS3 and Wii.

A videogame console really isn't expensive for adult gamers, especially late in a generation where the base systems sell for $100 to $150 (often bundled with games), so I don't think you would necessarily see a drop in multi-console ownership late in a generation.



HappySqurriel said:

edit: NPD data from 2009:

Cross-Ownership*
According to the reports, among Wii owners in the United States (who represent 32 percent of all gamers), 14 percent also own a PlayStation 3, and 26 percent own an Xbox 360. Among PlayStation 3 owners (who currently represent 10 percent of all gamers), 42 percent own a Wii and 34 percent own an Xbox 360. However, among Xbox 360 owners (20 percent of all gamers), 42 percent own a Wii, but only 18 percent own a PlayStation 3.

   
Those who own the following console ...
  Wii PS3 360
Also
own
a ...
Wii 100% 42 42
PS3 14 100% 18
360 26 34 100%

*Note: Ownership refers to self or household ownership

Basically, what Pezus said. 2009 was when the Wii was much larger than it is today. It's likely that the Wii's presence has died down since then. And it's in USA.

 

But also, this merely shows how frequent it is for a person to own a Wii + another console. It does not say whether or not the Wii was the first console or the second console. 



Around the Network
Jay520 said:

1. That makes more sense. But the way you worded you're post was weird. You said "potentially having damaged relationships with third party publishers due to the PS-Vita, there is a risk that the PS4 won't have a chance to be (particularly) successful.By saying "having damaged relationships, it seemed like you were saying Sony wouldn't be trusted anymore. What you're saying is not a result of the Vita, it's a result of the Wii U.

In any case, I don't see the Wii U having some multiplatform games as sparking much of a problem for the PS4/720. We'll see though.

2. Like I said, it's impossible to know.

3. Fair Enough


The Vita and PS3's impact is that third party publishers are not going to assume that they can devote all of their support to the next Playstation system and be successful. They're going to be more focused on multiplatform support and giving strong support to platforms which have demonstrated strong hardware and software sales. The impact of this change will likely be seen with the Wii U and/or XBox 720.

Sony's strategy (since the Playstation) has been to encourage people to buy their platform to gain access to the best third party games, if those games are more spread out it undermines their strategy. As an example, the 3DS getting Monster Hunder games rather than the PS-Vita will likely result in significant reductions in software sales; and, even if the games do not come to the 3DS, if the PS-Vita doesn't get entrusted with Grand Theft Auto games there will be many more systems that were never sold.

 

Until I see the PS4 I can't predict what the reaction will be, originally I was just trying to make the comment that Sony was bringing "baggage" into the upcomming generation which wasn't being accounted for.



Jay520 said:
HappySqurriel said:

edit: NPD data from 2009:

Cross-Ownership*
According to the reports, among Wii owners in the United States (who represent 32 percent of all gamers), 14 percent also own a PlayStation 3, and 26 percent own an Xbox 360. Among PlayStation 3 owners (who currently represent 10 percent of all gamers), 42 percent own a Wii and 34 percent own an Xbox 360. However, among Xbox 360 owners (20 percent of all gamers), 42 percent own a Wii, but only 18 percent own a PlayStation 3.

   
Those who own the following console ...
  Wii PS3 360
Also
own
a ...
Wii 100% 42 42
PS3 14 100% 18
360 26 34 100%

*Note: Ownership refers to self or household ownership

Basically, what Pezus said. 2009 was when the Wii was much larger than it is today. It's likely that the Wii's presence has died down since then. And it's in USA.

 

But also, this merely shows how frequent it is for a person to own a Wii + another console. It does not say whether or not the Wii was the first console or the second console. 

Yeah, my assumption was based on personal experience which I haven't seen quantified ...

With that said, what the chart clearly shows is that it is very common for PS3 and XBox 360 owners to own a Wii. (Less than) 40% of Wii owners had another console, while 42% of PS3 and XBox 360 owners owned a Wii.

Note: "less than" because there would likely be people who owned PS3+XBox 360+Wii which would be double counted on the Wii.



HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The Wii U is aiming for a median between the core and casual audience. This is a total 180 from what the Wii was which was casually dominated in content. Nintendo is making a statement with the deals they are putting forth for Zombie U and Bayonetta. They want that smaller but more stable market that they missed out on completely with the Wii. The Wii U will not standing in the way of the next Xbox or Playstation, it will make its bed next to them and truthfully may the best company win. Ever since Sony has joined the gaming industry Nintendo always marched to the beat of its own drummer, but now they are coming back to the party. Lets hope they balance the casual and the core without dropping the ball. I will be getting a Wii U (but later)as well so lets hope their specs come up to snuff against the next Playstation and 360 or else the core market they are trying to build doesnt leave them because they are behind in the multiplat race. It will be all about exclusives and social networkinng next gen. Nintendos job is to hold onto the market, the problem is they depended on the casuals to get them there and now we know who they are running to. Lets see if they can hold onto those casuals and expand. I doubt they will, because casuals are a fickle bunch who are off with the wind at the drop of a new novelty.

A large portion of XBox 360 and PS3 owners this generation (possibly more than half) bought a Wii first. These gamers primarily bought their HD console because there weren't enough high quality games in certain genres to keep these gamers interested. By launching earlier, releasing a system which (may be) more powerful in relative terms, and making a more core-friendly but still accessable controller, Nintendo seems to be trying to prevent similar gamers from "jumping ship" mid generation with the Wii U ...

If Nintendo is successful with this strategy, and the next generation plays out roughly in a similar fashion as this generation, Sony and Microsoft could lose tens of millions of sales.


I wish third party sales could prove this theory of yours that a sustainable cross section of the 360/PS3 crowd bought Wii's. Nintendo is focusing on the core because thats exactly what they lacked proper support for outside of the same Nintendo IP's. I could see where a branch of PS3 owners would buy it for Blu Rays based on purchasing habits, but it doesn't add up for the Wii on core titles.



CCFanboy said:
Can I ask where these stories about burning through all their ps2 profits came from? I do remember reading an article last year saying after the price drop here in europe they were making losses on the system again. If what people are saying is true that doesn't sound successful to me. Sales figures might be high but if they really are losing all this money then it sounds more like its a failure.

From GAF:

Annual Operating Income (billions of yen)

Code:

Year  Sony  Nintendo

1995    -9   72

1996    57   65

1997   117  128

1998   137  156

1999    77  145

2000   -51   85

2001    83  119

2002   113  100

2003    68  108

2004    43  112

2005     9   90

2006  -232  226

2007  -125  487

2008   -58  555

2009   -57  357

2010    47  171

2011    29  -37

PS2 was released in 2000. If you add everything from 2000 to 2011, it's -131. Also, all profit made from PS2 between 2006-2009 (and any from PSP) is gone too.



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

Looking at that chart I would think sony should focus more on profits than on power next time. How can they sit there and say they wouldn't have handled ps3 differently? This whole gen they said Kutaragi was right. I think the big wigs at their game division are saying all this to save face.

This whole chapter reads like sega read towards the end of their days. They released a console significantly higher priced and used it to undermine the competition because they were better than everybody else. It is also more complex to develop for and resulted in the majority of multiplats running poorer. They are even in the position where they have to act fast or sink. I remember people were highly skeptical of dreamcast but the failure of the saturn forced their hand before they were ready to move. Its similar here except ps3 caught on. The difference is sony would like ps3 to last longer than this but microsoft are likely going to force their hand. They would obviously like to make as much profit as possible before moving on but they need to launch close to microsoft.

Its funny because people declare nintendo doomsday just because they "only do videogames" but nintendo have consistently made healthy profits with every generation and aren't in debt at all.



One more thing to complete my year = senran kagura localization =D