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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U GPU Type CONFIRMED! Custom AMD E6760!

Viper1 said:
Mazty said:
Viper1 said:

See that line I bolded?  Read it again.

A re-release is not a sucessor, it's, well...you said it, a re-release.

"You have to be a successor to your previous iteration whilst being better then the current gen competition"

Let's analyse this statement, shall we?

Is the Wii U the sucessor to the Wii?  Yes.
Is the Wuu U better (subjective...I suppose you meant stronger) than the current gen compeition (what an arbitrary requirement)?   Yes, it is.
Therefore, under your very own logic and reasoning, Wii U = next gen.

Apparently it's hardware isn't better though...Look at the claims of the CPU. 

But yeah, your definition is a good one although I'd insist that hardware has to be notiably better as generation should include a technological advance over the last generation as a whole, not just from the previous companies console interation. It's not arbitrary because gaming is ultimately based on technology which is linked to hardware. As consoles develop, so should the hardware. 

The only claims we have on the CPU is that it appears to be clocked slower.   And that makes sense.    But being clocked slower does not make it weaker.  Just compare AMD to Intel back in the late 90's or Intel against AMD since mid 2000's.   

If a dev is using brute clock speed to handle AI routines or the number of enemies on the screen, then yes, a slower clock may be an issue.  But it's not about how high your clock rate is but how much you can do with each clock cycle.   If a dev isn't yet familiar with working with the CPU, they may not yet be able to squeeze out that extra performance.

For example.   Say a CPU runs at 1 Ghz and can perform 100 operations per clock cycle.   That's 100 billion operations per second.   Say a second CPU runs at just 600 Mhz but can perform 200 operations per clock cycle.  That second CPU is actually capable of 120 billion operations per second.   See how the second CPU is actually more powerful than the one with the faster clock rate?  

As for the GPU, well, we already know it's more powerful.  That's been stated by several developers.

So again, your own definition still grants the Wii U "next gen" status.

Notably better is subjective.   Notably to you, me and notably to everyone else simply won't be the same.   You'd need a defined specification increase.   The problem is that's a damn hard thing to actually calculate.    Total system Flops is one way.   But even that doesn't work because the PS3 is a Flops beast but can't use them all in game.  Flop for Flop, the PS3 crushes the X360 but you can't see that in game at all.

Since you really can't define a parameter, that can be amicably agreed upon, to denote next generation, the predecessor/successor relationship of flagship consoles has been the indsutry accepted definition for a long while now.


Low clock speeds, low power consumption, tiny heat sink. 
The CPU will suck.

The WiiU doesn't show any sizeable improvement in technology. It's not running anything close to something like even the 5870 or even the 5770. I have a GTX560 Ti that's almost now 2 years old. It wasn't a just released card when I bought it and yet my PC will still be considerably more powerful in everyway then a "next-gen" console. Should that be the case? I don't think so. 



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Teriol said:
S.Peelman said:
Mazty said:

I'm saying that to determine what is next-gen you have to consider hardware. 
You said that time is the only deciding factor. If time is the only deciding factor, and you do not consider hardware, then the PS3 slim would be next-gen as it was released after the PS3 and is different, just as the 360 elite would be next-gen.

Obviously time is not the only deciding factor. So please tell me what factors make something next gen. 

I do not want to sketch it out for you. You knew full well what I meant anyways.

Last time: "Being a successor". Which is related to the 'time-factor' you seem to focus on, naturaly.

like i say before... it does not matter facts or logic... stop feeding him.

Yes, I'm going to stop now.



Mazty said:
S.Peelman said:
Mazty said:

I'm saying that to determine what is next-gen you have to consider hardware. 
You said that time is the only deciding factor. If time is the only deciding factor, and you do not consider hardware, then the PS3 slim would be next-gen as it was released after the PS3 and is different, just as the 360 elite would be next-gen.

Obviously time is not the only deciding factor. So please tell me what factors make something next gen. 

I do not want to sketch it out for you. You knew full well what I meant anyways.

Last time: "Being a successor". Which is related to the 'time-factor' you seem to focus on, naturaly.


I know what you meant and as I have shown such thinking is clearly wrong. 
What determines something is a sucessor if you are not looking at hardware? 

I am not going to indulge you by answering this as this completely obvious. I suggest you re-read this entire discussion as it seems everyone here except you understands what this is about.

Bye-bye then!



S.Peelman said:
Mazty said:
S.Peelman said:
Mazty said:

I'm saying that to determine what is next-gen you have to consider hardware. 
You said that time is the only deciding factor. If time is the only deciding factor, and you do not consider hardware, then the PS3 slim would be next-gen as it was released after the PS3 and is different, just as the 360 elite would be next-gen.

Obviously time is not the only deciding factor. So please tell me what factors make something next gen. 

I do not want to sketch it out for you. You knew full well what I meant anyways.

Last time: "Being a successor". Which is related to the 'time-factor' you seem to focus on, naturaly.


I know what you meant and as I have shown such thinking is clearly wrong. 
What determines something is a sucessor if you are not looking at hardware? 

I am not going to indulge you by answering this as this completely obvious. I suggest you re-read this entire discussion as it seems everyone here except you understands what this is about.

Bye-bye then!


It's so "obvious" and yet you failed miserably to give an answer that could withstand scrutiny. You said time is the only factor that needs to be considered, which is clearly wrong, and don't have the modesty to go back and revise a clearly lacking statement. 



Mazty said:
S.Peelman said:

I am not going to indulge you by answering this as this completely obvious. I suggest you re-read this entire discussion as it seems everyone here except you understands what this is about.

Bye-bye then!


It's so "obvious" and yet you failed miserably to give an answer that could withstand scrutiny. You said time is the only factor that needs to be considered, which is clearly wrong, and don't have the modesty to go back and revise a clearly lacking statement. 

S.Peelman said:

Bye-bye then!



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A very solid GPU for a console. If true I believe we'll be seeing multiplats next gen in the same manner as with the GCN, PS2 and XBX.



I think that is enough horse power for couple years ahead:)



Mazty said:
Viper1 said:

The only claims we have on the CPU is that it appears to be clocked slower.   And that makes sense.    But being clocked slower does not make it weaker.  Just compare AMD to Intel back in the late 90's or Intel against AMD since mid 2000's.   

If a dev is using brute clock speed to handle AI routines or the number of enemies on the screen, then yes, a slower clock may be an issue.  But it's not about how high your clock rate is but how much you can do with each clock cycle.   If a dev isn't yet familiar with working with the CPU, they may not yet be able to squeeze out that extra performance.

For example.   Say a CPU runs at 1 Ghz and can perform 100 operations per clock cycle.   That's 100 billion operations per second.   Say a second CPU runs at just 600 Mhz but can perform 200 operations per clock cycle.  That second CPU is actually capable of 120 billion operations per second.   See how the second CPU is actually more powerful than the one with the faster clock rate?  

As for the GPU, well, we already know it's more powerful.  That's been stated by several developers.

So again, your own definition still grants the Wii U "next gen" status.

Notably better is subjective.   Notably to you, me and notably to everyone else simply won't be the same.   You'd need a defined specification increase.   The problem is that's a damn hard thing to actually calculate.    Total system Flops is one way.   But even that doesn't work because the PS3 is a Flops beast but can't use them all in game.  Flop for Flop, the PS3 crushes the X360 but you can't see that in game at all.

Since you really can't define a parameter, that can be amicably agreed upon, to denote next generation, the predecessor/successor relationship of flagship consoles has been the indsutry accepted definition for a long while now.


Low clock speeds, low power consumption, tiny heat sink. 
The CPU will suck.

The WiiU doesn't show any sizeable improvement in technology. It's not running anything close to something like even the 5870 or even the 5770. I have a GTX560 Ti that's almost now 2 years old. It wasn't a just released card when I bought it and yet my PC will still be considerably more powerful in everyway then a "next-gen" console. Should that be the case? I don't think so. 

Funny, I'm using a tiny CPU on a computer in my workshop with lower clock speeds, low power consumption and a tiny heat sink and it's more powerful than the 6 year old AMD CPU I have in another desktop next to it.    If you odn't know anything about how CPU's work, try not to disucss them too much.   You are making yourself look bad.

PC's have a combination of 12-13 month generation cycle and energy options a console could only dream of.   That HD 5870 has a TDP of 228 watts.  Your GTX 560 Ti is 170 watts.    Not even the PS4 and Next X will have GPU's that eat up that many watts.   In fact, it will barely even be half of that.

I highly advise you to just stop.   Go back and do some research.  Learn about PC's, CPU's, GPU's, game consoles, etc...   Because every point you are trying to make is making you look bad.  And I'm being serious.   I'd rather have a good debate with you when you know what you are talking about rather than debate you as you are now because I'm starting to feel sorry for you.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
Mazty said:
Viper1 said:

The only claims we have on the CPU is that it appears to be clocked slower.   And that makes sense.    But being clocked slower does not make it weaker.  Just compare AMD to Intel back in the late 90's or Intel against AMD since mid 2000's.   

If a dev is using brute clock speed to handle AI routines or the number of enemies on the screen, then yes, a slower clock may be an issue.  But it's not about how high your clock rate is but how much you can do with each clock cycle.   If a dev isn't yet familiar with working with the CPU, they may not yet be able to squeeze out that extra performance.

For example.   Say a CPU runs at 1 Ghz and can perform 100 operations per clock cycle.   That's 100 billion operations per second.   Say a second CPU runs at just 600 Mhz but can perform 200 operations per clock cycle.  That second CPU is actually capable of 120 billion operations per second.   See how the second CPU is actually more powerful than the one with the faster clock rate?  

As for the GPU, well, we already know it's more powerful.  That's been stated by several developers.

So again, your own definition still grants the Wii U "next gen" status.

Notably better is subjective.   Notably to you, me and notably to everyone else simply won't be the same.   You'd need a defined specification increase.   The problem is that's a damn hard thing to actually calculate.    Total system Flops is one way.   But even that doesn't work because the PS3 is a Flops beast but can't use them all in game.  Flop for Flop, the PS3 crushes the X360 but you can't see that in game at all.

Since you really can't define a parameter, that can be amicably agreed upon, to denote next generation, the predecessor/successor relationship of flagship consoles has been the indsutry accepted definition for a long while now.


Low clock speeds, low power consumption, tiny heat sink. 
The CPU will suck.

The WiiU doesn't show any sizeable improvement in technology. It's not running anything close to something like even the 5870 or even the 5770. I have a GTX560 Ti that's almost now 2 years old. It wasn't a just released card when I bought it and yet my PC will still be considerably more powerful in everyway then a "next-gen" console. Should that be the case? I don't think so. 

Funny, I'm using a tiny CPU on a computer in my workshop with lower clock speeds, low power consumption and a tiny heat sink and it's more powerful than the 6 year old AMD CPU I have in another desktop next to it.    If you odn't know anything about how CPU's work, try not to disucss them too much.   You are making yourself look bad.

PC's have a combination of 12-13 month generation cycle and energy options a console could only dream of.   That HD 5870 has a TDP of 228 watts.  Your GTX 560 Ti is 170 watts.    Not even the PS4 and Next X will have GPU's that eat up that many watts.   In fact, it will barely even be half of that.

I highly advise you to just stop.   Go back and do some research.  Learn about PC's, CPU's, GPU's, game consoles, etc...   Because every point you are trying to make is making you look bad.  And I'm being serious.   I'd rather have a good debate with you when you know what you are talking about rather than debate you as you are now because I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

A tiny CPU? Lolwut - the form factor has barely changed, if at all, in years with the size of CPU...Sure that I'm the one who doesn't know anything about them? Also exactly how small is the heat sink? Small enough to fit into a WiiU? Didn't think so.  If you don't know anything about how CPU's work, try not to disucss them too much.   You are making yourself look bad.

You have completely avoided the point. Should an old PC from several years ago that is by no means cutting edge still be far more powerful then a next-gen console? If I was comparing an i7, SLI based set-up, yes that's unfair, but I'm not. It's that simple. Optimisation can go a long way in making next-gen powerful, hence the reason they don't need the same power requirements as PC's. But after having spoken to a dev for the WiiU, I can now confirm that it's power is on-par with the existing consoles. I like being me; being right is nice :)



"But after having spoken to a dev for the WiiU, I can now confirm that it's power is on-par with the existing consoles."

 

lolz! Funniset thing I've read all week!



"Success really is decided at birth, and your life will never be better than it is right now. Sorry about that."