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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii U GPU Type CONFIRMED! Custom AMD E6760!

Mazty on 23 September 2012
dahuman said:
@Mazty,
I see your point and all, but you are kinda forgetting that Wii U controller, which is not cheap, that thing sold by itself is estimated to be 150USD(more like 175USD in Japan, but in the US things are cheaper when it comes to electronics.) That thing is pretty full fledged as a controller, you are talking about motion control, camera, touch screen, dual analog, ton of buttons, light weight, low latency and all that. You are not paying 300 dollars for the GPU by itself lol, when all the parts get combined together, I don't think Nintendo is making that much profit on the console at all while able to deliver us good content and new gimmicks to play with. Yeah I called it a gimmick, but that's why I buy things sometimes, awesome gimmicks, though don't care much for stupid ones.

I've also seen the Wii U in person, that thing is really slick and small, the controller very comfortable, Moore's law absolutely applies here, it's a very small form factor at that performance, it's actually quiet impressive.

Well the controller is a two sided sword. On one side, yet it means you are getting more then just the console, but on the other side it means the hardware of the console will be stretched a lot if it would be weakish just on its own, let alone having to support the pad as well. 

Impressive it may be, but a good gaming console? I shall have to wait and see. 



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Mazty on 23 September 2012
Kasz216 said:
Mazty said:
Kasz216 said:
Mazty said:
Kasz216 said:

And your saying HE is talking in stupid hyperbole.

If you want to talk years.  The latest 6760 was released in 2011... and Moore's law hasn't applied for some time now.

And he said it was a $100 GPU NOW... that wasn't the price in 2009.  He's using the price to tally up what the hardware for the Wii U costs to make today.   So according to you on pricing... that makes it a budget/middle of the road card today.  Exactly Source's point. 

That you could make such a reading mistake and the $100 price point in 09 seemed credible to you makes me REALLY puts your knowledge on the subject in question.

As for paying more for less performace?  That's every console ever when it comes to tech.  Consoles always release with behind the edge processors and graphics cards.  That's why if you actually care about shit like this it's PC or nothing. 

They rely on low system reqs for OS and such.  I mean hell, why do you think most consoles have about as much Ram as a computer from 2002.

Is that opening comment not just as inflammatory as "HAVE FUN! LMFAO!" ?
I didn't say stupid hyperbole, I said he was completely wrong no matter what way you look at it. Let's be mature about this and not warp words. 

Actually Moore's law is doing just fine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Transistor_Count_and_Moore%27s_Law_-_2011.svg
And it's still going to be around for a while:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/10/intel_asml_deal/

You're clearly not a PC gamer, or keep up to date with PC hardware and yet you're trying to argue the value of components? If you've ever seen a 4650 it's instantly clear that it's not a gaming card it's so small and certainly not worth $100 unless you are going to seriously argue that the HD4650, a low end card from '08, is on par with modern day $100 cards like the HD7750. He didn't say NOW and people who write on websites aren't always right, as shown by him getting the cards year wrong.  It's not exactly polite, nor pleasent, to try and argue about things so vehemently when you're guessing at most of it. 
Consoles are generally behind computer hardware, but not by this much, and certainly not at this stage of the existing console generation. With news on this GPU and the next consoles stated for release in 2013, it does beg the question why bother with the Wii U? 

Read the article and you note he does say NOW as the entire article is a comparison of what the Wii costs to make now vs it's release cost.

2 Gigs of Ram = 30 Bucks

High End Blu-ray Drive - 80 bucks

E6760 - 100 bucks

and I quote here

"So far, just based on available retail parts (and the above illustrations I used aren't even discounted) we're looking at $210."

So... your wrong.  He's talking about the Wii U's price to create based on retail parts.   I mean... why would he use the 2009 price when constructing how much the Wii would cost to make today?   Or did you just not read the entire article?


Now as for how much a Radeon HD 4650 costs?   About $100 bucks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&N=100006662&isNodeId=1&Description=Radeon+HD+4650&x=11&y=16

http://www.serversupply.com/products/part_search/pid_lookup.asp?pid=124277&gclid=CL_cuIWEzLICFWWCQgodZSUAgg

http://www.compuvest.com/Search.jsp?Search=VN566ATR&advsite=froogle&sku=331010308-10&dp=1:HPR:10565:0:0

http://www.pinnaclemicro.com/computer/parts.php?g=VN566AT&gclid=CO7sgaOEzLICFcZxQgodZggAQA

So yeah... he clearly means $100 now.  You are just outright wrong... a quick google search would of showed you that... and your complaining about other people not performing due diligence.

As for not being a PC gamer...

277 PC Games on Steam alone...

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198003014739/

so there is that. 

 

PC gaming is all I do... I'm likely to skip all three of the next generation consoles.


So a 4 year old basic GPU chip costs the same as a brand new entry gaming chip?
People who write articles aren't inherently right, and claiming such a chip is $100 is way off the mark. 

It 'costs' that much because it's end-of-line/not made any more, so like DDR2 RAM the price is inflated. As I have said, the HD7750 is better in everyway by a hell of a lot yet is $100 so care to explain that one? I did a search of google and saw that none of the major retailers here in the UK stock it and only random online shops do. Plus as you have now seen it, are you really going to claim it's anything other then a very basic GPU?

Give some benchmark games a spin and you'll see just how limited the above GPU will be. Your steam library seems devoid of any heavy hitters like Metro or a STALKER or a Total War; give one a spin to see graphical demands of modern games. 

A) I own Total War: Shogun 2.

B) You were just wrong.  Just admit it.

C) The E6760 isn't even an "end of the line" model.    The most recent chip version was released in 2011.  You likely can't find it for sale because it's only sold to manufactuters through a few distruntors... since it's not a general use GPU.  It actually costs more then $100 bucks... more like 160... if you buy in multiples of 250.

http://www.componentsdirect.com/amd-100-cg2266.html

If I'm wrong then explain how such a small card with a basic cooler is priced the same as the HD 7750. 

Not the E6760, the R700 card is  end of the line. 

By your logic this:
http://www.ebuyer.com/146765-kingston-4gb-ddr2-800mhz-hyperx-memory-khx6400d2llk2-4g
is better then:
http://www.ebuyer.com/266722-kingston-8gb-ddr3-1600mhz-hyperx-plug-n-play-memory-khx1600c9d3p1k2-8g
because of the price. 

Care to restate your argument?



Lafiel on 23 September 2012
Chandler said:
Well, we don't know if the rumor is true, but we know what the power draw of the Wii U is. Iwata stated that the console draws 40-75 W, so would a modified E6760 fit the bill?

the HD6570 card ,which has the same architecture and slightly higher clock than the stock E6760, has a max consumption of 44W according to the infos I found, so that seems close enough, especially if they make some further modifications



dahuman on 23 September 2012
Mazty said:
dahuman said:
@Mazty,
I see your point and all, but you are kinda forgetting that Wii U controller, which is not cheap, that thing sold by itself is estimated to be 150USD(more like 175USD in Japan, but in the US things are cheaper when it comes to electronics.) That thing is pretty full fledged as a controller, you are talking about motion control, camera, touch screen, dual analog, ton of buttons, light weight, low latency and all that. You are not paying 300 dollars for the GPU by itself lol, when all the parts get combined together, I don't think Nintendo is making that much profit on the console at all while able to deliver us good content and new gimmicks to play with. Yeah I called it a gimmick, but that's why I buy things sometimes, awesome gimmicks, though don't care much for stupid ones.

I've also seen the Wii U in person, that thing is really slick and small, the controller very comfortable, Moore's law absolutely applies here, it's a very small form factor at that performance, it's actually quiet impressive.

Well the controller is a two sided sword. On one side, yet it means you are getting more then just the console, but on the other side it means the hardware of the console will be stretched a lot if it would be weakish just on its own, let alone having to support the pad as well. 

Impressive it may be, but a good gaming console? I shall have to wait and see. 

I really liked it when I played on it, and I was really surprised at how light the Wii U Pad is just like the press was. It's definitely not my PC by a long shot when comparing power, no console ever can compete with PCs, but I can see people having a good time on it for sure. I also like how they give you the ability to just use an external HDD for everything, it's a really smart design since it lowers your console internal power requirements and has less moving parts thus reducing a lot of heat production, and also makes it smaller. It's a really well designed hardware that's not "as" locked down when you take all that into account. I mean shit, graphics like that for 75W? That's pretty fucking insane.



Mazty on 23 September 2012
dahuman said:
Mazty said:
dahuman said:
@Mazty,
I see your point and all, but you are kinda forgetting that Wii U controller, which is not cheap, that thing sold by itself is estimated to be 150USD(more like 175USD in Japan, but in the US things are cheaper when it comes to electronics.) That thing is pretty full fledged as a controller, you are talking about motion control, camera, touch screen, dual analog, ton of buttons, light weight, low latency and all that. You are not paying 300 dollars for the GPU by itself lol, when all the parts get combined together, I don't think Nintendo is making that much profit on the console at all while able to deliver us good content and new gimmicks to play with. Yeah I called it a gimmick, but that's why I buy things sometimes, awesome gimmicks, though don't care much for stupid ones.

I've also seen the Wii U in person, that thing is really slick and small, the controller very comfortable, Moore's law absolutely applies here, it's a very small form factor at that performance, it's actually quiet impressive.

Well the controller is a two sided sword. On one side, yet it means you are getting more then just the console, but on the other side it means the hardware of the console will be stretched a lot if it would be weakish just on its own, let alone having to support the pad as well. 

Impressive it may be, but a good gaming console? I shall have to wait and see. 

I really liked it when I played on it, and I was really surprised at how light the Wii U Pad is just like the press was. It's definitely not my PC by a long shot when comparing power, no console ever can compete with PCs, but I can see people having a good time on it for sure. I also like how they give you the ability to just use an external HDD for everything, it's a really smart design since it lowers your console internal power requirements and has less moving parts thus reducing a lot of heat production, and also makes it smaller. It's a really well designed hardware that's not "as" locked down when you take all that into account. I mean shit, graphics like that for 75W? That's pretty fucking insane.

Yeah I won't deny that the power usage of hardware now is insane - hell, look at iphones and ipads. I guess the days of power bricks are behind us, though to be honest, I'd prefer top notch graphics over conservative power usage :D



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Kasz216 on 23 September 2012
Mazty said:
Kasz216 said:
 

A) I own Total War: Shogun 2.

B) You were just wrong.  Just admit it.

C) The E6760 isn't even an "end of the line" model.    The most recent chip version was released in 2011.  You likely can't find it for sale because it's only sold to manufactuters through a few distruntors... since it's not a general use GPU.  It actually costs more then $100 bucks... more like 160... if you buy in multiples of 250.

http://www.componentsdirect.com/amd-100-cg2266.html

If I'm wrong then explain how such a small card with a basic cooler is priced the same as the HD 7750. 

Not the E6760, the R700 card is  end of the line. 

By your logic this:
http://www.ebuyer.com/146765-kingston-4gb-ddr2-800mhz-hyperx-memory-khx6400d2llk2-4g
is better then:
http://www.ebuyer.com/266722-kingston-8gb-ddr3-1600mhz-hyperx-plug-n-play-memory-khx1600c9d3p1k2-8g
because of the price. 

Care to restate your argument?


R700?  What does that have to do with anything?

Nor the below.  You said it didn't cost $100... and it cost less.

There are two sources where it clearly costs $100 or more.  (Well actually multiple sources for two versions of the E6760 costing more.  Including an E6760 that was just released LAST YEAR.  The E6760 clearly costs more then $100 as you can see from the last link given to you.)

 

All together though, your argument is just weird since console are often radically different from PC GPUs after being redesigned.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/01/24/xbox-720-will-be-six-times-as-powerful-as-current-gen



menx64 on 23 September 2012
dahuman said:
osed125 said:
dahuman said:

that's a country?

You're kidding right?


lets just say if I really wanted to know something, I'd google or wiki it and not ask on a forum, and I was a smart ass when creating the thread :P didn't think people would catch it though lol




Menx64

3DS code: 1289-8222-7215

NNid: Menx064

HoloDust on 23 September 2012
Baron said:
HoloDust said:
Baron said:
HoloDust said:

Go to www.3Dmark.com and under Results/Advanced search put Athlon x4 620 into CPU field, and 4850 into GPU field (than when results show up select number of GPUs: 1) - you will see that P scores are 9500+ for that combo, and that's actually some 1.6x of e6760

EDIT: If you compare pure GPU scores (taking into acount that e6760 is slighlty downclocked 6570) it's even worse - difference is 2x)


Those are overclocked results. The lowest score is 5587, lower than the 5870 for the standard e6760.

Yes, lowest score is 5587, look at cards frequencies and you'll know why is that. As it's been said here by me and others here numerous times, e6760 is slightly downclocked 6570 with GDDR5 (600 against 650MHZ), so if you and others are interested in seeing how it performce against other cards (4850 included) try other combinations on 3Dmark site and compare graphics score - for 4850 vs 6570 it's around 7500 vs 4600, so some 1.6x on default clocks.

Not that I know why it matters so much, it's still some 2x better than PS360, though, if rumours are true at least 720 will be 3-4x more powerfull than that.

Those lowest scores are done with standard clocks, 3dmark sometimes reads speeds wrong and puts in the clock speeds of the card in idle. It has done that with my scores as well, even with my cards heavily overclocked.
If you look at the 7000 scores for the 4850 you'll see that those scores have been achieved with heavily overclocked cards. I saw several with well over 700 MHz for the core and well over 1000 MHz for memory. The 9000+ scores don't show speeds at all.

 

Logic reasoning would have already told you that there's no way in hell a standard HD 4850 with a standard Athlon II X2 620 would outperform a standard HD 4850 with a standard QX9650. Certainly not by over 3000 points.

 

As for comparing the e6760 to the 6570, that's a flawed comparison for many reasons. And for the Vantage score we don't have to look at a 6570, the score is listed on the AMD site. It's 5870 so with 3DMark Vantage it's more powerful than a 6570. End of story.

Look further and deeper and you might be surprised - I have not looked at just 4850/620 and 6570/620 combos , but with other CPUs as well, and that's exactly why I suggested for people to look not at P scores, but GPU scores.

As for e6760m not being downclocked 6570 - check your facts and compare e6760 it against it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Northern_Islands_.28HD_6xxx.29_series) and 6550M (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Radeon_HD_6xxxM_Series) before you start throwing at random your "end of stories" - 4850 is at every spec more powerful than e6760 by factor of 1.6x and more.



HoloDust on 23 September 2012
Chandler said:
Well, we don't know if the rumor is true, but we know what the power draw of the Wii U is. Iwata stated that the console draws 40-75 W, so would a modified E6760 fit the bill?


Yes it would, e6760 has 35W TDP (offical spec sheet) - considering that it is clocked same as 6650M (which is more or less mobile version of 6570/6670 and gives also 576GFLOPS like e6760) which is also in that range, I'd say it pretty much fits into stated power draw.



HoloDust on 23 September 2012
usrevenge said:


its a 6760 which is a custom GPU but it is save to assume it's similar to a 6770, which is a real desktop GPU, that card is Dx11 capable but there are almost no games in dx11 mode that work since the card is too weak to run everything. 

now the gpu is custom but this is probably size and not much to do with power. the gpu is nothing impressive the 6770 is hardly considered a low end GPU for gaming, but it is much much much much more powerful then the xbox 360 GPU.


It is not similar to 6770, 6770 gives 1360GFLOPS and is based on Juniper core, e6760 is based on Turks core and gives 576GFLOPS (which is in line with 6650M or downclocked 6570). For those of you who want more info on it http://www.anandtech.com/show/4307/amd-launches-radeon-e6760