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Forums - Gaming - Stupid jury kills innovation/competition and hands Apple a monopoly

 

Describe the Jury's decision.

Smart: Apple did it first... 47 17.67%
 
Stupid: You can't patent... 216 81.20%
 
Total:263
Michelasso on 26 August 2012
kain_kusanagi said:
Michelasso said:
kain_kusanagi said:

Are you realling going to tell me that you feel "pinch to zoom" should have ever even gotten a pattent let alone be exclusive? What if ID software patented FPS? What if Nintendo patented side scrolling? What if Xerox patented the GUI and the mouse?


That's what I can't stand about the Apple haters: so much ignorance. Apple bought from Xerox the user interface design!! The Xerox top managemnt was laughing at the mouse. It has been paid with Apple shares! It has been Microsoft the thief that first bought some restricted licenses from Apple to make Windows 1.0 and then extended Windows making use of something they didn't pay for, which are the overlapped windows and many other UI elements. Now they all seems such obvious ideas, but at that time they were NOT.

The case Apple vs Samsung, but it would be better to call it Apple vs Android, is very similar to the one against Microsoft 20 years ago or so. Apple sued MS, but MS had bigger muscles and probably connections in the court. This time is the other way around. You fandroids can hate and argue as much as you want, but if it wasn't for Apple now you will still be looking for a fugly Blackberry clone. Google and Samsung invented NOTHING, they just copied from Apple, with the excuse that it is an Open Source software.

With all due respect I have a hard time taking you serious with a "Finder" icon for your avatar and your conspiracy theory that conveniently paints Microsoft as a thief. You Macaddicts always apologies for everything Apple does wrong and accuse it's competitors of everything short of murder.

As for your claim that Apple bought the GUI from Xerox. That's not true. Steve Jobs liked to claim the same thing, but Xerox sued Apple for stealing their ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation From what I've been able to find out it's more likely that Steve Jobs gave some Xerox employees some shares to get the GUI/Mouse demo and then stole the whole thing wholesale. But since I don't believe you can hold patent on look and feel or metaphor I don't see anything really wrong with taking Xerox's ideas. What I don't like is Apple's hypocrisy in suing everyone who "steals" from their stolen ideas. Even the iPhone stole from previous phones like Samsung so it's even more ridicules that they would win a lawsuit against Samsung.

The Mac's icon is there because I have been playing with Macs, Amigas, PC clones/Windows etc, since when they were born. The Mac simply always had (and still has) the best user interface. Prove me wrong if you can.

Regarding the Apple vs Xerox case, Jobs admitedly stole the IDEA, not the product. After paying Xerox (non its employees, it's different) with Apple stock option for having a chance to visit the Xerox labs. The Xerox Star came out in 1981 and has been an huge failure. The Macintosh came out 3 years later and it has been an huge success. The Lisa and macintosh used the same GUI concepts of Xerox, but they have been rewritten from scratch, adding many more features not present in the Xerox Star. 

On the other end, insteas, Jobs gave to Bill Gates his Macintosh to have MS developing sw for them, after selling restricted licenses for Windows 1.0. The restriction is the reason why in Windows 1.0 the windows were cutting the screen and could not overlap. Bill Gates instead of developing SW for the Mac, reverse engineered it. If Jobs didn't give the Macs to that thief MS would have probably disappeared. Or, even worse, the large majority of people in the World would have been typing in a MS-DOS v15 text based interface for many more years (well, just exagerrating to make the concept). Apple sued MS and with big surprise on the industry MS won. That has been the Original Sin and that has been what put Apple nearly out of business in the late 90s

Android, and even worse Samsung, now is doing exactly the same. Samsung even not having the decency of designing its own top line phones, blatantly copying nearly to the millimiter the  iPhone design. Not until the Galaxy S3 at least. What it is horrendous about the fandroids is that they keep forgetting that no iPhone, no Android nor Galaxy, not as they are now. No iPad, which has been an HUGE bet from Steve Jobs, the "Post PC" idea, no tablets. All ideas and especially first products came from Apple. Google invented nothing.

Regarding which, I'd like to know how this sentence would kill innovation as the fandroids are crying loud. Where is the innovation on copying?? The only huge difference between Android and iOS are the Dalvik (Java) Machines. The ones responsible for all Force Closes in Android, and when they do not force close they hang the systems because they require far too many resources. That shows indeed how poor Google is on developing operative system concepts. That design choice has been simply a nightmare. Other than that, what? Notifications? Gimmy a break. they have been present in OS X far before Android was even conceived. Widgets? The same name of the OS X Widgets, what a coincidence. Multitasking? It is obvioulsy present in the iOS kernel (XNU. The same of OS X) but it has been restricted to save energy. Now don't give me the facial recognition and all crap like that. They just are yet another good Android way to drain the battery!!

The point is that when they copy in Formula one car industry, they sue for criminal industrial espionage, when they copy, and with copy I mean the products, not the ideas in the IT industry the fanboys call for freedom of expression. Samsung has been found guilty of willingly copying the iPhone. Now it has to pay. Simple and fair. Period.



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the2real4mafol on 26 August 2012
Michelasso said:
the2real4mafol said:
Michelasso said:
the2real4mafol said:

Phones have changed so much in so little time!!

Indeed. So why is the Galaxy S identical to the iPhone?! Samsung has been loooking for troubles. Or maybe not, one of the reasons why it got the market could have been that they copied the iPhone design indeed. $1 billion is nothing, Samsung should give to Apple all the revenues (hmm... let's say the profits) it has got from the iClones. That fine is justy a small bill to pay considered the huge $$$ Samsung saved in R&D.

I have no idea, why they copied but it feels like apple tries to bully every phone/ tablet company out there, so they get richer. That's what it seems like. 

But, the S2 and the S3 are nothing like iPhones, so it shouldn't matter to much.

Don't you think Apple makes enough as it is now. I mean it's now richer than the oil producing nation Saudi Arabia (21st richest country) @ $622 billion!! I think Apple has way too much money now.

Indeed, the fine is small because all these companies are MASSIVE!!! but who's to say who's original and who's not, especially if they came out at a similiar time. Plus galaxy S looks more like a iPhone 3GS than an iPhone 4 


No. It seems to me that Apple is the only one that has always been really investing on innovation and got pretty pist off (especially Steve Jobs) that all Android devices used its researches to take adavantage without spending a single penny. If Apple is the richest it is because it has always been the first to make the best products. This was true even before Windows came out. The shame is not that Samsung got to pay Apple back, it is that MS didn't have to. 

Didn't anyone notice that Apple didn't take a single hit at Nokia or Blackberry or even Window Mobile? Why? Because they did NOT copy. Android, retarded Dalvik (Java) Machine apart is a copycat of iOS. As it is Linux for OS X. Well, at least it tries to be failing miserably. The fable that it is Open Source so it is lecit to copy has to end. Especially in the case of Android were the revenues in return from Android commercial for Google are simply HUGE. 

In any case, I'd like to know which innovations Android phones introduced before the Galaxy S3. If the Galaxy S3 introduced anything really new... The notifications? They have been implemented for ages on OS X before Android ever existed. The Widgets? Funny, they have the exact same name they've got on Apple OS X... What a coincidence. What else?

No the reason it's rich is because it makes such a huge profit on all it's products. They could price ALL their products at the lower end of the market and still some profits. For example, iPhones cost about $100 to make but are sold $500 to $600 and that's why they are so rich. The apple brand is so valuable and hip, that they can get with selling for such high price. There marketing makes you want there products more than anything else.

I think they are only innovative in design rather than features.

I hope you know, Apple has only done this well since they launched iTunes and iPod in 2001/02. Before that they nearly went bankcrupt!! But guess what? Microsoft bailed them out, so it's them to thank for your Apple products as much as it is the deceased Steve Jobs.

But really they copy each other, you say the notifications from Android, well they been there since the start in 2008, while Apple basically copied that for ios5, but changed the design slightly. While the widgets on Mac look more like it's from ios rather than android widgets. Things may have the same name but they are chances they are not the same

Even if Android copied as much as you say, Apple have no right to destroy Android and kill off any competition. If android phones didn't exist, most people still wouldn't get an iPhone, as they can't afford it. Which is why Android does so well, as they can market to developing nations like India with cheap phones. Apple, can do that but sales wouldn't increase in India, for example

 



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IllegalPaladin on 26 August 2012

The more news that comes out about this the dumber it seems to get.

Honestly though, to me it isn't a Samsung or Apple thing. There are issues with the system.



Jumpin on 26 August 2012
zero129 said:
Jumpin said:
disolitude said:

WTF are you people talking about?

Do some research and look at the phones which were sued and patents that Apple sued them with. Looking at the phones in question, Samsung "willingly" copied the Iphone and its features.

People that know me know that I don't like Apple but I hate seeing lack of common sense.

Pretty much all of these anti-apple chuckleheads are no more than ignorant mindless robots who lack the ability to think for themselves; common sense is not exactly something valued among these people. This is exactly why they manage to mix up innovation and stealing/copying.

Kinda like all them Apple chuckleheads who think stealing a bunch of other peoples ideas and putting them into one package = innovation and then sides with Apple when the same is done to them?

Although the situation you describe does not resemble reality. There aren't any Apple fans here who think " think stealing a bunch of other peoples ideas and putting them into one package = innovation"

It is fairly typical for anti-Apple people to come up with fictional scenarios in a lame attempt at attacking apple due to some sort of imaginary war that you think they are fighting on behalf of Android or Windows or whatever. Samsung blatantly infringed on 6 patents, and the courts decided to award Apple over 1 billion USD as a result of it. Somehow the anti-Apple seem to completely lack understanding of this fact; and that sort of ignorance combined with their myth-making key-board warrioring against people who like Apple products is what makes them a bunch of chuckleheads.



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MaulerX on 26 August 2012

They did not hand Apple a Monopoly. It's far from it. What it did, however, was strap Windows Phone to a rocket ready to be lit. I've read many articles on the web, and the true winner might very well be Microsoft. WP8 looks freaking amazing and OEM's will no doubt start shifting their focus from Android to a platform that is 110% protected from litigation. In fact, in it's closing arguments, Apple gave Nokia/Microsoft a ringing endorsement by holding up and showing the judge and jurors a Nokia Lumia phone as an example of a SmartPhone that was different and did not violate or copy iPhone/iOS in any way.

On the surface, this ruling was in Apples favor, but the consequences will be far more reaching to the mobile landscape. Consequences that might not be in Apples favor at all.



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kain_kusanagi on 26 August 2012
Michelasso said:
kain_kusanagi said:
Michelasso said:
kain_kusanagi said:

Are you realling going to tell me that you feel "pinch to zoom" should have ever even gotten a pattent let alone be exclusive? What if ID software patented FPS? What if Nintendo patented side scrolling? What if Xerox patented the GUI and the mouse?


That's what I can't stand about the Apple haters: so much ignorance. Apple bought from Xerox the user interface design!! The Xerox top managemnt was laughing at the mouse. It has been paid with Apple shares! It has been Microsoft the thief that first bought some restricted licenses from Apple to make Windows 1.0 and then extended Windows making use of something they didn't pay for, which are the overlapped windows and many other UI elements. Now they all seems such obvious ideas, but at that time they were NOT.

The case Apple vs Samsung, but it would be better to call it Apple vs Android, is very similar to the one against Microsoft 20 years ago or so. Apple sued MS, but MS had bigger muscles and probably connections in the court. This time is the other way around. You fandroids can hate and argue as much as you want, but if it wasn't for Apple now you will still be looking for a fugly Blackberry clone. Google and Samsung invented NOTHING, they just copied from Apple, with the excuse that it is an Open Source software.

With all due respect I have a hard time taking you serious with a "Finder" icon for your avatar and your conspiracy theory that conveniently paints Microsoft as a thief. You Macaddicts always apologies for everything Apple does wrong and accuse it's competitors of everything short of murder.

As for your claim that Apple bought the GUI from Xerox. That's not true. Steve Jobs liked to claim the same thing, but Xerox sued Apple for stealing their ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation From what I've been able to find out it's more likely that Steve Jobs gave some Xerox employees some shares to get the GUI/Mouse demo and then stole the whole thing wholesale. But since I don't believe you can hold patent on look and feel or metaphor I don't see anything really wrong with taking Xerox's ideas. What I don't like is Apple's hypocrisy in suing everyone who "steals" from their stolen ideas. Even the iPhone stole from previous phones like Samsung so it's even more ridicules that they would win a lawsuit against Samsung.

The Mac's icon is there because I have been playing with Macs, Amigas, PC clones/Windows etc, since when they were born. The Mac simply always had (and still has) the best user interface. Prove me wrong if you can.

Regarding the Apple vs Xerox case, Jobs admitedly stole the IDEA, not the product. After paying Xerox (non its employees, it's different) with Apple stock option for having a chance to visit the Xerox labs. The Xerox Star came out in 1981 and has been an huge failure. The Macintosh came out 3 years later and it has been an huge success. The Lisa and macintosh used the same GUI concepts of Xerox, but they have been rewritten from scratch, adding many more features not present in the Xerox Star. 

On the other end, insteas, Jobs gave to Bill Gates his Macintosh to have MS developing sw for them, after selling restricted licenses for Windows 1.0. The restriction is the reason why in Windows 1.0 the windows were cutting the screen and could not overlap. Bill Gates instead of developing SW for the Mac, reverse engineered it. If Jobs didn't give the Macs to that thief MS would have probably disappeared. Or, even worse, the large majority of people in the World would have been typing in a MS-DOS v15 text based interface for many more years (well, just exagerrating to make the concept). Apple sued MS and with big surprise on the industry MS won. That has been the Original Sin and that has been what put Apple nearly out of business in the late 90s

Android, and even worse Samsung, now is doing exactly the same. Samsung even not having the decency of designing its own top line phones, blatantly copying nearly to the millimiter the  iPhone design. Not until the Galaxy S3 at least. What it is horrendous about the fandroids is that they keep forgetting that no iPhone, no Android nor Galaxy, not as they are now. No iPad, which has been an HUGE bet from Steve Jobs, the "Post PC" idea, no tablets. All ideas and especially first products came from Apple. Google invented nothing.

Regarding which, I'd like to know how this sentence would kill innovation as the fandroids are crying loud. Where is the innovation on copying?? The only huge difference between Android and iOS are the Dalvik (Java) Machines. The ones responsible for all Force Closes in Android, and when they do not force close they hang the systems because they require far too many resources. That shows indeed how poor Google is on developing operative system concepts. That design choice has been simply a nightmare. Other than that, what? Notifications? Gimmy a break. they have been present in OS X far before Android was even conceived. Widgets? The same name of the OS X Widgets, what a coincidence. Multitasking? It is obvioulsy present in the iOS kernel (XNU. The same of OS X) but it has been restricted to save energy. Now don't give me the facial recognition and all crap like that. They just are yet another good Android way to drain the battery!!

The point is that when they copy in Formula one car industry, they sue for criminal industrial espionage, when they copy, and with copy I mean the products, not the ideas in the IT industry the fanboys call for freedom of expression. Samsung has been found guilty of willingly copying the iPhone. Now it has to pay. Simple and fair. Period.

Good job rewriting history to make Apple the hero and everyone else the villain. You wrote a lot of words up there, but all they did was prove that you will apologise for everything Apple does and throw blame at everyone else. Sorry, but when it comes to stealing ideas Apple is just as much a villain as all other companies. That's the point you are missing. Innovation requires taking an idea and making it better. Apple does it just like everyone else, but then they attack those that are inspired by their products. Legal or not Apple should never have been awarded most of their patents. You can't patent look and feel. MS won the UI case because Apple was wrong. <-------PERIOD



ultima on 26 August 2012
ishiki said:
ultima said:

Those articles involve antitrust laws, and the corporations were hurting the industry by doing something illegal. What bugs me about this case is that Apple is hurting the industry, but they aren't doing a single illegal thing.

And iPhone's closed, but that doesn't bother me. What made you think I was against that?

IDK a lot of people in this thread, maybe it wasn't directed at you.

so it's better to hurt the industry doing illegal things (which apple probably does)? Than doing it legally?

As I said before the problem is with the system and the laws. Apple and the other company's will take advantage of it until something is changed. When company's get so big, their bottom line is what matters and if there is a legal way to exploit it they will. (big business's always force themselves to get huge tax breaks to 'stay' in a city to 'provide' jobs for people, while local small business's rarely get such benefit).

Again Apple, Intel, Google, Microsoft all do shady things. Maybe some a bit more than other's.

I wouldn't say it's better, but the difference is that when something is done illegally, there are laws that can be used to chastise and discourage such behaviour. Nobody can tell Apple to stop this crap, because they're not breaking any laws.

I honestly don't care too much how companies get bigger. As long as it does not affect me as a consumer. Stagnating innovation hurts me.



           

ultima on 26 August 2012
Michelasso said:

The Mac's icon is there because I have been playing with Macs, Amigas, PC clones/Windows etc, since when they were born. The Mac simply always had (and still has) the best user interface. Prove me wrong if you can.

Regarding the Apple vs Xerox case, Jobs admitedly stole the IDEA, not the product. After paying Xerox (non its employees, it's different) with Apple stock option for having a chance to visit the Xerox labs. The Xerox Star came out in 1981 and has been an huge failure. The Macintosh came out 3 years later and it has been an huge success. The Lisa and macintosh used the same GUI concepts of Xerox, but they have been rewritten from scratch, adding many more features not present in the Xerox Star. 

That's probably correct. Isn't that what Android did? Some ideas were copied, which in fact were copied by Apple from their predecessors. Nothing interesting here, move along.

On the other end, insteas, Jobs gave to Bill Gates his Macintosh to have MS developing sw for them, after selling restricted licenses for Windows 1.0. The restriction is the reason why in Windows 1.0 the windows were cutting the screen and could not overlap. Bill Gates instead of developing SW for the Mac, reverse engineered it. If Jobs didn't give the Macs to that thief MS would have probably disappeared. Or, even worse, the large majority of people in the World would have been typing in a MS-DOS v15 text based interface for many more years (well, just exagerrating to make the concept). Apple sued MS and with big surprise on the industry MS won. That has been the Original Sin and that has been what put Apple nearly out of business in the late 90s.

Do you have a source to back up your argument? Gates reverse engineered the mac? LOL! He IMPLEMENTED the ideas that were already in the mac. Just like Apple implemented the ideas they saw at Xerox.

Android, and even worse Samsung, now is doing exactly the same. Samsung even not having the decency of designing its own top line phones, blatantly copying nearly to the millimiter the  iPhone design. Not until the Galaxy S3 at least. What it is horrendous about the fandroids is that they keep forgetting that no iPhone, no Android nor Galaxy, not as they are now. No iPad, which has been an HUGE bet from Steve Jobs, the "Post PC" idea, no tablets. All ideas and especially first products came from Apple. Google invented nothing.

I'm sorry, but I'm forced to conclude that you've never seen a Samsung device up close. Even the original Galaxy S was larger and in many ways different than iPhone. Galaxy S2 was even bigger and even more different. What makes you say that it was copied? The fact that it was square, had a speaker grill at the top and button at the bottom? It's sad if that convinces you.

Regarding which, I'd like to know how this sentence would kill innovation as the fandroids are crying loud. Where is the innovation on copying?? The only huge difference between Android and iOS are the Dalvik (Java) Machines. The ones responsible for all Force Closes in Android, and when they do not force close they hang the systems because they require far too many resources. That shows indeed how poor Google is on developing operative system concepts. That design choice has been simply a nightmare. Other than that, what? Notifications? Gimmy a break. they have been present in OS X far before Android was even conceived. Widgets? The same name of the OS X Widgets, what a coincidence. Multitasking? It is obvioulsy present in the iOS kernel (XNU. The same of OS X) but it has been restricted to save energy. Now don't give me the facial recognition and all crap like that. They just are yet another good Android way to drain the battery!!

"Kill" is a strong word. Stagnate or slow down is a much better option. There's nothing wrong with Dalvik when compared to other JVM's. Force closes on Androids are more conspicous because you actually get a message telling you what happened. iPhone apps force close too. Unlike Android though, it simply disappears without a message. Don't tell me you've never experienced that. And using a JVM (especially Dalvik) was actually a very smart design choice. Java is a very easy and popular programming language. It accounts for the quick growth of the Google Play. Like I told you previously, Notifications came to OSX in mountain lion (2012). Android has had them since 2008. As far as I know, widgets weren't done on a mobile OS before android. If you're going to start arguing that taking ideas from a desktop OS is also unacceptable stealing, then iOS was a stolen product. Don't bring desktops into this. Android has had multitasking from the beginning. iOS didn't get it until much much later. There are many more features that aren't available in iOS. In fact, Gingerbread (if not FroYo) was a more powerful operating system than the latest version of iOS.

The point is that when they copy in Formula one car industry, they sue for criminal industrial espionage, when they copy, and with copy I mean the products, not the ideas in the IT industry the fanboys call for freedom of expression. Samsung has been found guilty of willingly copying the iPhone. Now it has to pay. Simple and fair. Period.

It's ridiculous that you ignore all the things iOS copied from Android and beg for the electric chair for Android doing the same from iOS. Android took some ideas from iOS, iOS took at the very very least the same amount from Android. And there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone benefits from borrowing and improving. These fucking lawsuits needs to stop. This verdict was not fair in any way. Period.



           

mothman on 26 August 2012

It's frightening is what it is. I wouldn't buy an overpriced iPhone or iPad if my life depended on it.
Note that Apple has lost everywhere else in the world except the U.S. It must be easier to buy your way through the U.S. justice system.

I for one will vote with my wallet in support of Samsung or for that matter anyone who isn't Apple.



slowmo on 26 August 2012
Euphoria14 said:
ultima said:
Euphoria14 said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Sad thing is that Apple have millions of "sheep" that buy their shit every fucking yearwith those stupid prices. They want to give them the monpoly.

fuck them all


At least we have the decency to not say those same things tto you.

 

Enjoy your android that costs the same exact price as my iPhone.

Android and WP are all about choice. You can get a high end device for the same price as your iPhone or a cheaper device if you're not a power user. With apple, you have just the choice of internal storage. And if you look at the specs of the iPhone compared to the high-end Android devices, you'll see that you're paying the same amount for a (vastly) inferior product. Why are you so happy to admit that you want apple to have a monopoly? That's not good for anyone, including yourself. What incentive does a monopoly have to innovate? None whatsoever.


Want a powerful iPhone? Get a 4s. Galaxy S3 for same cost.

Want a cheaper iPhone, get a 4. Get an S2 for same price.

Want an iPhone for free? Get a 3GS. Get a crap android for free.

 

Wp7 has shit for an app store. Android is closing in on Apple, but Apple still either gets everything first or it gets exclusives.

 

Iphone specs suck, but everything looks better. Specs are not be all end all. Android are resource hogs, always having shit running behind the scenes. Ever seen Horn? Nice for shit specs.

 

 

It also doesn't hurt anything for me. I had 2x Galaxy S and had tons of issues, ranging from charger port malfunction, crap battery life, phone running shit after a month or two, not getting updates on time. The list is vast and I haven't even gotten into HTC issues.

I currently own a Galacy S3 as well as my 4S.

Games on my crap spec iPhone look better and run better than on the S3.

 

I am sure I know what I am talking about considering I have the two best devices on the market.

 

I put the HTC One X ahead of the iPhone too, especially after the most recent update.  The display for a start is clearly superior to the S3 or iPhone.  The only bad thing i found really was the WLAN fault which meant 5 days away for repair for mine.  I now get better battery life and great signal strength .  None of my devices or media are tied into itunes so that doesnt tether me.