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Forums - Nintendo - Is Nintendo's third-party ecosystem really in danger?

DanneSandin on 11 August 2012
Viper1 said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
RolStoppable said:
Summary: Nothing has changed. The biggest obstacle to third party success are still third parties themselves. Also, Western publishers still suck hard on handhelds.

What I don't understand is why don't they step up their game? They could sell just as much as Nintendo, but they prefer to do crappy games (well, not all of them) and complain about how they can't sell games on Nintendo HW...

you can count on one hand how much 3rd party games sell as well as Nintendo games period. GTA, COD, JD. two of those were adapted for portables with varying results. GTA games did ok to good on PSP, not so much DS.  COD games sold like crap on DS and the one PSP entry did alright. I would like to see a JD on 3DS, not cause i would buy it, just to see if people would

Well, ok, I worded that wrong. Very, very few games can match Nintendo sales - but the truth is, that if they'd bothered they (3rd party) could have done much better on Nintendo consoles. I mean, a lot of Wii owners got themselves a second console just to play 3rd party games. That's evidence for my theory right there; 3rd parties could do well on Nintendo consoles - whether it's handheld or home.

You are correct. 

Since the N64 days, 3rd parties have no put as much effort on the Nintendo consoles as they have on the other consoles and consumers ahve responded by buying games from a publisher they trust to provide good quality - Nintendo.

The issue started on the N64 because Nintendo's decision to use cartridges instead of CD's reduced the per unit profit potential for publishers so it made sense financially to put more effort on the disc based consoles.   The problem is that the mind set, software ecosystem and stmata generated from that carried over to the GC despite having a disc based medium.

This further ascerbated the 1st party / 3rd party disparity which leads us to now.   The fact that 3DS launched with far better 3rd party support than did DS and that Wii U is way ahead of Wii's intial 3rd party support suggests this aricle is not only full of crap but is riding the journalistic mentality of 'Nintendo doomed' articles are good business.

Yes, this seems very logical and satisfactory =)



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

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Viper1 on 11 August 2012
happydolphin said:

To be fair, Konami is a fairly important publisher (understatement), and n-space had a very different reaction from western publishers as compared to the DS gen. So he's not really all that bad, I actually thought he was being honest, just may be a little misguided in his conclusions that's all.

Sure, some of the article may have had legitmacy to it but I stand on the notion that it never should have been written begin with.  And the little portion that is legit is not worthy of an article by itself.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

happydolphin on 11 August 2012
Viper1 said:

Sure, some of the article may have had legitmacy to it but I stand on the notion that it never should have been written begin with.  And the little portion that is legit is not worthy of an article by itself.

Which bit is that? I'm interested.



oniyide on 11 August 2012
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
RolStoppable said:
Summary: Nothing has changed. The biggest obstacle to third party success are still third parties themselves. Also, Western publishers still suck hard on handhelds.

What I don't understand is why don't they step up their game? They could sell just as much as Nintendo, but they prefer to do crappy games (well, not all of them) and complain about how they can't sell games on Nintendo HW...

you can count on one hand how much 3rd party games sell as well as Nintendo games period. GTA, COD, JD. two of those were adapted for portables with varying results. GTA games did ok to good on PSP, not so much DS.  COD games sold like crap on DS and the one PSP entry did alright. I would like to see a JD on 3DS, not cause i would buy it, just to see if people would

Well, ok, I worded that wrong. Very, very few games can match Nintendo sales - but the truth is, that if they'd bothered they (3rd party) could have done much better on Nintendo consoles. I mean, a lot of Wii owners got themselves a second console just to play 3rd party games. That's evidence for my theory right there; 3rd parties could do well on Nintendo consoles - whether it's handheld or home.

And how much of those 3rd party games sold as well as as those Ninty ones on Wii, how well would they have done on Wii? Hell how much of those PS360 3rd party games could even RUN on Wii and when I mean run, im not talking about barely like how the COD games have extreme pop up, and the online lags to all hell to the point where you have to shoot where the person might be at and lower player count. Judging by the sales of the multiplat games that did come out, im guessing not much. 

Im not defending 3rd parties, but im also not condeming them, Ninty games sell better, its just the way it is.

Thing is, with a machine like the Wii, you can't just port any game and expect it'll sell well. You need to use the machine. They could have done awesome boxing games, for an example. And there was some great 3rd party games that really took advantage of Wii: Just Dance (or whatever it's called) by Ubisoft. Those games sold like crazy! THAT'S what 3rd parties need to do: use the HW! There's one simple fact why 3rd party titles sell so well on PS360: not even the 1st party games uses the hardware - so there's less competition!! Sure, they've got great graphics - but they are not utilizing the machines like Nintendo maximized the Wii.

3rd parties need to be more creative when it comes to Nintendos consoles. As simple as that.

Alot of them did use to machine, hell all most of them did was just copy each other on the system anyway, JD, how much JD like games were made for Wii? Hell alot, I dont even think JD was the first of its kind on Wii.  Im sorry but i have to disagree with everything else that was said, Ninty used the HW?? DId they really? Cause IMHO they could have done a better job themselves. Glad you brought up boxing, cause that portion of Wii Sports sucked, it was inaccurate and barely worked, if Ninty couldnt get that to work how can one expect a 3rd party to do better? hell they didnt even do that with their punch out game, what the hell happened there? Mario Galaxy, did really take advantage of the tech, NSMBW, same thing, making DK roll by having to shake the controller is not using the power of the Wiimote.   How are SOny and MS not using their machines? Uncharted, GOW, KZ you'll be hard pressed to find 3rd party games that look as good or better than those. How is that not them using their machines! Same with Halo on 360. Hell alot of Ninty games dont even push the system graphically IMHO



DanneSandin on 12 August 2012
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:

Thing is, with a machine like the Wii, you can't just port any game and expect it'll sell well. You need to use the machine. They could have done awesome boxing games, for an example. And there was some great 3rd party games that really took advantage of Wii: Just Dance (or whatever it's called) by Ubisoft. Those games sold like crazy! THAT'S what 3rd parties need to do: use the HW! There's one simple fact why 3rd party titles sell so well on PS360: not even the 1st party games uses the hardware - so there's less competition!! Sure, they've got great graphics - but they are not utilizing the machines like Nintendo maximized the Wii.

3rd parties need to be more creative when it comes to Nintendos consoles. As simple as that.

Alot of them did use to machine, hell all most of them did was just copy each other on the system anyway, JD, how much JD like games were made for Wii? Hell alot, I dont even think JD was the first of its kind on Wii.  Im sorry but i have to disagree with everything else that was said, Ninty used the HW?? DId they really? Cause IMHO they could have done a better job themselves. Glad you brought up boxing, cause that portion of Wii Sports sucked, it was inaccurate and barely worked, if Ninty couldnt get that to work how can one expect a 3rd party to do better? hell they didnt even do that with their punch out game, what the hell happened there? Mario Galaxy, did really take advantage of the tech, NSMBW, same thing, making DK roll by having to shake the controller is not using the power of the Wiimote.   How are SOny and MS not using their machines? Uncharted, GOW, KZ you'll be hard pressed to find 3rd party games that look as good or better than those. How is that not them using their machines! Same with Halo on 360. Hell alot of Ninty games dont even push the system graphically IMHO

Making great graphics isn't taking advantage of the machine. Just look at Gears of War: third party title that looks just as good as 1st party. Anyways, I'm too tired to get drawn deeper into this. I just think that 3rd parties could be as successful as Nintendo on Nintedo consoles (excluding some of their biggest titles). If 3rd parties made good games they wouldn't have any problems selling 1 million copies (or more). Ubisoft once said that 45 % of their revenue came from Nintendo consoles. 45%.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Around the Network
oniyide on 12 August 2012
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
 

Thing is, with a machine like the Wii, you can't just port any game and expect it'll sell well. You need to use the machine. They could have done awesome boxing games, for an example. And there was some great 3rd party games that really took advantage of Wii: Just Dance (or whatever it's called) by Ubisoft. Those games sold like crazy! THAT'S what 3rd parties need to do: use the HW! There's one simple fact why 3rd party titles sell so well on PS360: not even the 1st party games uses the hardware - so there's less competition!! Sure, they've got great graphics - but they are not utilizing the machines like Nintendo maximized the Wii.

3rd parties need to be more creative when it comes to Nintendos consoles. As simple as that.

Alot of them did use to machine, hell all most of them did was just copy each other on the system anyway, JD, how much JD like games were made for Wii? Hell alot, I dont even think JD was the first of its kind on Wii.  Im sorry but i have to disagree with everything else that was said, Ninty used the HW?? DId they really? Cause IMHO they could have done a better job themselves. Glad you brought up boxing, cause that portion of Wii Sports sucked, it was inaccurate and barely worked, if Ninty couldnt get that to work how can one expect a 3rd party to do better? hell they didnt even do that with their punch out game, what the hell happened there? Mario Galaxy, did really take advantage of the tech, NSMBW, same thing, making DK roll by having to shake the controller is not using the power of the Wiimote.   How are SOny and MS not using their machines? Uncharted, GOW, KZ you'll be hard pressed to find 3rd party games that look as good or better than those. How is that not them using their machines! Same with Halo on 360. Hell alot of Ninty games dont even push the system graphically IMHO

Making great graphics isn't taking advantage of the machine. Just look at Gears of War: third party title that looks just as good as 1st party. Anyways, I'm too tired to get drawn deeper into this. I just think that 3rd parties could be as successful as Nintendo on Nintedo consoles (excluding some of their biggest titles). If 3rd parties made good games they wouldn't have any problems selling 1 million copies (or more). Ubisoft once said that 45 % of their revenue came from Nintendo consoles. 45%.

THen explain what is taking advantage of a console? What is "good"?



mike_intellivision on 13 August 2012
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
Mmm interesting read! And it has a few points to it as well.

But couldn't mobile games be sort of a portal to handheld gaming? If kids start playing iOS games they might buy a 3DS later on to get better games?


The thing is, is not really the kids who are playing these games in droves, its mostly adults, and i doubt you will get most of them to start playing the meatier games of the 3DS or Vita if they never gave a damn in the first place, especially if those games are going to be even more expensive. and most kids dont have hundreds of dollars lying around to buy themselves a 3DS.  It isnt unlike the WIi, sure alot of people bought WiiFit and Sports Resort, but how many of those type of people bought Conduit? GE?, COD on Wii? Most of them didnt because they were not interested

No, kids don't buy games on iPhones/iPads - but their parents do, and a lot of the time the kids will make their parents buy a certain game they want. And THAT'S a possible way to get into handhelds =)

true, but what are parents more likely to do? Are they really going to shell out money for a 170 dollar machine or more to play games that cost 30 dollars or more? Or are they going to tell little Timmy to piss off and keep buying cheap dollar games for the 200 dollar phone they already bought. I know what i would do.

Well, if you buy the cheap $1 game, that works until (1) little Timmy wants to play while you have an important call/email/text for work on the phone (which is being paid for buy work) or (2) little Timmy drops and breaks the $200 phone which will cost you $700 to replace.

 

Mike from Morgantown



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV
oniyide on 13 August 2012
mike_intellivision said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
Mmm interesting read! And it has a few points to it as well.

But couldn't mobile games be sort of a portal to handheld gaming? If kids start playing iOS games they might buy a 3DS later on to get better games?


The thing is, is not really the kids who are playing these games in droves, its mostly adults, and i doubt you will get most of them to start playing the meatier games of the 3DS or Vita if they never gave a damn in the first place, especially if those games are going to be even more expensive. and most kids dont have hundreds of dollars lying around to buy themselves a 3DS.  It isnt unlike the WIi, sure alot of people bought WiiFit and Sports Resort, but how many of those type of people bought Conduit? GE?, COD on Wii? Most of them didnt because they were not interested

No, kids don't buy games on iPhones/iPads - but their parents do, and a lot of the time the kids will make their parents buy a certain game they want. And THAT'S a possible way to get into handhelds =)

true, but what are parents more likely to do? Are they really going to shell out money for a 170 dollar machine or more to play games that cost 30 dollars or more? Or are they going to tell little Timmy to piss off and keep buying cheap dollar games for the 200 dollar phone they already bought. I know what i would do.

Well, if you buy the cheap $1 game, that works until (1) little Timmy wants to play while you have an important call/email/text for work on the phone (which is being paid for buy work) or (2) little Timmy drops and breaks the $200 phone which will cost you $700 to replace.

 

Mike from Morgantown

wouldnt little Timmy have his own phone?? and wouldnt that phone be insured so your not paying 700 to replace??



mike_intellivision on 13 August 2012
oniyide said:
mike_intellivision said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
Mmm interesting read! And it has a few points to it as well.

But couldn't mobile games be sort of a portal to handheld gaming? If kids start playing iOS games they might buy a 3DS later on to get better games?


The thing is, is not really the kids who are playing these games in droves, its mostly adults, and i doubt you will get most of them to start playing the meatier games of the 3DS or Vita if they never gave a damn in the first place, especially if those games are going to be even more expensive. and most kids dont have hundreds of dollars lying around to buy themselves a 3DS.  It isnt unlike the WIi, sure alot of people bought WiiFit and Sports Resort, but how many of those type of people bought Conduit? GE?, COD on Wii? Most of them didnt because they were not interested

No, kids don't buy games on iPhones/iPads - but their parents do, and a lot of the time the kids will make their parents buy a certain game they want. And THAT'S a possible way to get into handhelds =)

true, but what are parents more likely to do? Are they really going to shell out money for a 170 dollar machine or more to play games that cost 30 dollars or more? Or are they going to tell little Timmy to piss off and keep buying cheap dollar games for the 200 dollar phone they already bought. I know what i would do.

Well, if you buy the cheap $1 game, that works until (1) little Timmy wants to play while you have an important call/email/text for work on the phone (which is being paid for buy work) or (2) little Timmy drops and breaks the $200 phone which will cost you $700 to replace.

 

Mike from Morgantown

wouldnt little Timmy have his own phone?? and wouldnt that phone be insured so your not paying 700 to replace??

At age 8 -- no.

At age 10 -- possibly.

At age 12 -- probably.

At age 14 -- definitely (but no longer little Timmy)

As for insurance, do you know anyone who buys that from the carrier?

 



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV
DanneSandin on 13 August 2012
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
 

Thing is, with a machine like the Wii, you can't just port any game and expect it'll sell well. You need to use the machine. They could have done awesome boxing games, for an example. And there was some great 3rd party games that really took advantage of Wii: Just Dance (or whatever it's called) by Ubisoft. Those games sold like crazy! THAT'S what 3rd parties need to do: use the HW! There's one simple fact why 3rd party titles sell so well on PS360: not even the 1st party games uses the hardware - so there's less competition!! Sure, they've got great graphics - but they are not utilizing the machines like Nintendo maximized the Wii.

3rd parties need to be more creative when it comes to Nintendos consoles. As simple as that.

Alot of them did use to machine, hell all most of them did was just copy each other on the system anyway, JD, how much JD like games were made for Wii? Hell alot, I dont even think JD was the first of its kind on Wii.  Im sorry but i have to disagree with everything else that was said, Ninty used the HW?? DId they really? Cause IMHO they could have done a better job themselves. Glad you brought up boxing, cause that portion of Wii Sports sucked, it was inaccurate and barely worked, if Ninty couldnt get that to work how can one expect a 3rd party to do better? hell they didnt even do that with their punch out game, what the hell happened there? Mario Galaxy, did really take advantage of the tech, NSMBW, same thing, making DK roll by having to shake the controller is not using the power of the Wiimote.   How are SOny and MS not using their machines? Uncharted, GOW, KZ you'll be hard pressed to find 3rd party games that look as good or better than those. How is that not them using their machines! Same with Halo on 360. Hell alot of Ninty games dont even push the system graphically IMHO

Making great graphics isn't taking advantage of the machine. Just look at Gears of War: third party title that looks just as good as 1st party. Anyways, I'm too tired to get drawn deeper into this. I just think that 3rd parties could be as successful as Nintendo on Nintedo consoles (excluding some of their biggest titles). If 3rd parties made good games they wouldn't have any problems selling 1 million copies (or more). Ubisoft once said that 45 % of their revenue came from Nintendo consoles. 45%.

THen explain what is taking advantage of a console? What is "good"?

I think Wii is a great example of how to take advantage of the console. New hardware allow new, different things to be done. Skyward Sword is a good example. Wii Sports Resort as well. Just Dance. I like how Naughty Dog implemented the cinemetics in Uncharted - it felt like you were playing a movie. The Gameplay has to benifit, or else you're not using the HW. Graphics is only a part of a game. I like how Zombi U uses the GamePad.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.