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Forums - Nintendo - Is Nintendo's third-party ecosystem really in danger?

oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
Mmm interesting read! And it has a few points to it as well.

But couldn't mobile games be sort of a portal to handheld gaming? If kids start playing iOS games they might buy a 3DS later on to get better games?


The thing is, is not really the kids who are playing these games in droves, its mostly adults, and i doubt you will get most of them to start playing the meatier games of the 3DS or Vita if they never gave a damn in the first place, especially if those games are going to be even more expensive. and most kids dont have hundreds of dollars lying around to buy themselves a 3DS.  It isnt unlike the WIi, sure alot of people bought WiiFit and Sports Resort, but how many of those type of people bought Conduit? GE?, COD on Wii? Most of them didnt because they were not interested

No, kids don't buy games on iPhones/iPads - but their parents do, and a lot of the time the kids will make their parents buy a certain game they want. And THAT'S a possible way to get into handhelds =)

true, but what are parents more likely to do? Are they really going to shell out money for a 170 dollar machine or more to play games that cost 30 dollars or more? Or are they going to tell little Timmy to piss off and keep buying cheap dollar games for the 200 dollar phone they already bought. I know what i would do.

Oh, they'd buy the 3DS of the kids wanted it - believe me. I got a Nintendo (NES) when I was young, and got games every time I had a birthday. Now, I could have gotten a board game - but I didn't cuz I didn't want it. I wanted Nintendo. I got Nintendo. And my family wasn't that rich either. I don't think parents gonna stop buying consoles for their kids if the kids wants it, just because we have mobile phones with games nowadays.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

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happydolphin said:

EDIT: What's the N64 "ultra team"?


I think he's referring to the Dream Team.  It was a selected group of developers and publishers that Nintendo was using to strategically provide content for the system.

Rare, Angel Studios, DMA Design, Williams, Paradigm, Spectrum Holobyte, Sierra Online, GameTek, GTE Interactive Media and Acclaim were the Dream Team members.   Things certainly did not go as planned.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
RolStoppable said:
Summary: Nothing has changed. The biggest obstacle to third party success are still third parties themselves. Also, Western publishers still suck hard on handhelds.

What I don't understand is why don't they step up their game? They could sell just as much as Nintendo, but they prefer to do crappy games (well, not all of them) and complain about how they can't sell games on Nintendo HW...

you can count on one hand how much 3rd party games sell as well as Nintendo games period. GTA, COD, JD. two of those were adapted for portables with varying results. GTA games did ok to good on PSP, not so much DS.  COD games sold like crap on DS and the one PSP entry did alright. I would like to see a JD on 3DS, not cause i would buy it, just to see if people would

Well, ok, I worded that wrong. Very, very few games can match Nintendo sales - but the truth is, that if they'd bothered they (3rd party) could have done much better on Nintendo consoles. I mean, a lot of Wii owners got themselves a second console just to play 3rd party games. That's evidence for my theory right there; 3rd parties could do well on Nintendo consoles - whether it's handheld or home.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

HappySqurriel said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
Mmm interesting read! And it has a few points to it as well.

But couldn't mobile games be sort of a portal to handheld gaming? If kids start playing iOS games they might buy a 3DS later on to get better games?


The thing is, is not really the kids who are playing these games in droves, its mostly adults, and i doubt you will get most of them to start playing the meatier games of the 3DS or Vita if they never gave a damn in the first place, especially if those games are going to be even more expensive. and most kids dont have hundreds of dollars lying around to buy themselves a 3DS.  It isnt unlike the WIi, sure alot of people bought WiiFit and Sports Resort, but how many of those type of people bought Conduit? GE?, COD on Wii? Most of them didnt because they were not interested

No, kids don't buy games on iPhones/iPads - but their parents do, and a lot of the time the kids will make their parents buy a certain game they want. And THAT'S a possible way to get into handhelds =)

true, but what are parents more likely to do? Are they really going to shell out money for a 170 dollar machine or more to play games that cost 30 dollars or more? Or are they going to tell little Timmy to piss off and keep buying cheap dollar games for the 200 dollar phone they already bought. I know what i would do.

Modern parents?

Probably buy the $170 device to show of how "great" of a parent they are.

Ha, your probably right, but i know some modern parents that simply cant afford to do that.



Viper1 said:
happydolphin said:

EDIT: What's the N64 "ultra team"?

I think he's referring to the Dream Team.  It was a selected group of developers and publishers that Nintendo was using to strategically provide content for the system.

Rare, Angel Studios, DMA Design, Williams, Paradigm, Spectrum Holobyte, Sierra Online, GameTek, GTE Interactive Media and Acclaim were the Dream Team members.   Things certainly did not go as planned.

Right, yeah. Dream Team. Pardon me, it's been a long time since I thought of the phrase.

I think that probably was part of what hurt developer relations back in the N64 era. They still haven't recovered from that.

At least we got TUrok out of it.



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Viper1 said:
happydolphin said:

EDIT: What's the N64 "ultra team"?

I think he's referring to the Dream Team.  It was a selected group of developers and publishers that Nintendo was using to strategically provide content for the system.

Rare, Angel Studios, DMA Design, Williams, Paradigm, Spectrum Holobyte, Sierra Online, GameTek, GTE Interactive Media and Acclaim were the Dream Team members.   Things certainly did not go as planned.

Thanks.

Tbh I don't think that really mattered, because Nintendo's japanese support was what mattered most, and that was undermined by Sony even sooner than Nintendo's western support, which still had Rare, Lucas Arts and Factor5 to name a few. EA would've made better sports games on the N64 but had much more to work with on the PS thanks to licensed music playback and extensive rosters all thanks to the CD-ROM.



DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
RolStoppable said:
Summary: Nothing has changed. The biggest obstacle to third party success are still third parties themselves. Also, Western publishers still suck hard on handhelds.

What I don't understand is why don't they step up their game? They could sell just as much as Nintendo, but they prefer to do crappy games (well, not all of them) and complain about how they can't sell games on Nintendo HW...

you can count on one hand how much 3rd party games sell as well as Nintendo games period. GTA, COD, JD. two of those were adapted for portables with varying results. GTA games did ok to good on PSP, not so much DS.  COD games sold like crap on DS and the one PSP entry did alright. I would like to see a JD on 3DS, not cause i would buy it, just to see if people would

Well, ok, I worded that wrong. Very, very few games can match Nintendo sales - but the truth is, that if they'd bothered they (3rd party) could have done much better on Nintendo consoles. I mean, a lot of Wii owners got themselves a second console just to play 3rd party games. That's evidence for my theory right there; 3rd parties could do well on Nintendo consoles - whether it's handheld or home.

And how much of those 3rd party games sold as well as as those Ninty ones on Wii, how well would they have done on Wii? Hell how much of those PS360 3rd party games could even RUN on Wii and when I mean run, im not talking about barely like how the COD games have extreme pop up, and the online lags to all hell to the point where you have to shoot where the person might be at and lower player count. Judging by the sales of the multiplat games that did come out, im guessing not much. 

Im not defending 3rd parties, but im also not condeming them, Ninty games sell better, its just the way it is.



DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
RolStoppable said:
Summary: Nothing has changed. The biggest obstacle to third party success are still third parties themselves. Also, Western publishers still suck hard on handhelds.

What I don't understand is why don't they step up their game? They could sell just as much as Nintendo, but they prefer to do crappy games (well, not all of them) and complain about how they can't sell games on Nintendo HW...

you can count on one hand how much 3rd party games sell as well as Nintendo games period. GTA, COD, JD. two of those were adapted for portables with varying results. GTA games did ok to good on PSP, not so much DS.  COD games sold like crap on DS and the one PSP entry did alright. I would like to see a JD on 3DS, not cause i would buy it, just to see if people would

Well, ok, I worded that wrong. Very, very few games can match Nintendo sales - but the truth is, that if they'd bothered they (3rd party) could have done much better on Nintendo consoles. I mean, a lot of Wii owners got themselves a second console just to play 3rd party games. That's evidence for my theory right there; 3rd parties could do well on Nintendo consoles - whether it's handheld or home.

You are correct. 

Since the N64 days, 3rd parties have no put as much effort on the Nintendo consoles as they have on the other consoles and consumers ahve responded by buying games from a publisher they trust to provide good quality - Nintendo.

The issue started on the N64 because Nintendo's decision to use cartridges instead of CD's reduced the per unit profit potential for publishers so it made sense financially to put more effort on the disc based consoles.   The problem is that the mind set, software ecosystem and stmata generated from that carried over to the GC despite having a disc based medium.

This further ascerbated the 1st party / 3rd party disparity which leads us to now.   The fact that 3DS launched with far better 3rd party support than did DS and that Wii U is way ahead of Wii's intial 3rd party support suggests this aricle is not only full of crap but is riding the journalistic mentality of 'Nintendo doomed' articles are good business.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
oniyide said:
DanneSandin said:
RolStoppable said:
Summary: Nothing has changed. The biggest obstacle to third party success are still third parties themselves. Also, Western publishers still suck hard on handhelds.

What I don't understand is why don't they step up their game? They could sell just as much as Nintendo, but they prefer to do crappy games (well, not all of them) and complain about how they can't sell games on Nintendo HW...

you can count on one hand how much 3rd party games sell as well as Nintendo games period. GTA, COD, JD. two of those were adapted for portables with varying results. GTA games did ok to good on PSP, not so much DS.  COD games sold like crap on DS and the one PSP entry did alright. I would like to see a JD on 3DS, not cause i would buy it, just to see if people would

Well, ok, I worded that wrong. Very, very few games can match Nintendo sales - but the truth is, that if they'd bothered they (3rd party) could have done much better on Nintendo consoles. I mean, a lot of Wii owners got themselves a second console just to play 3rd party games. That's evidence for my theory right there; 3rd parties could do well on Nintendo consoles - whether it's handheld or home.

And how much of those 3rd party games sold as well as as those Ninty ones on Wii, how well would they have done on Wii? Hell how much of those PS360 3rd party games could even RUN on Wii and when I mean run, im not talking about barely like how the COD games have extreme pop up, and the online lags to all hell to the point where you have to shoot where the person might be at and lower player count. Judging by the sales of the multiplat games that did come out, im guessing not much. 

Im not defending 3rd parties, but im also not condeming them, Ninty games sell better, its just the way it is.

Thing is, with a machine like the Wii, you can't just port any game and expect it'll sell well. You need to use the machine. They could have done awesome boxing games, for an example. And there was some great 3rd party games that really took advantage of Wii: Just Dance (or whatever it's called) by Ubisoft. Those games sold like crazy! THAT'S what 3rd parties need to do: use the HW! There's one simple fact why 3rd party titles sell so well on PS360: not even the 1st party games uses the hardware - so there's less competition!! Sure, they've got great graphics - but they are not utilizing the machines like Nintendo maximized the Wii.

3rd parties need to be more creative when it comes to Nintendos consoles. As simple as that.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Viper1 said:

You are correct. 

Since the N64 days, 3rd parties have no put as much effort on the Nintendo consoles as they have on the other consoles and consumers ahve responded by buying games from a publisher they trust to provide good quality - Nintendo.

The issue started on the N64 because Nintendo's decision to use cartridges instead of CD's reduced the per unit profit potential for publishers so it made sense financially to put more effort on the disc based consoles.   The problem is that the mind set, software ecosystem and stmata generated from that carried over to the GC despite having a disc based medium.

This further ascerbated the 1st party / 3rd party disparity which leads us to now.   The fact that 3DS launched with far better 3rd party support than did DS and that Wii U is way ahead of Wii's intial 3rd party support suggests this aricle is not only full of crap but is riding the journalistic mentality of 'Nintendo doomed' articles are good business.

To be fair, Konami is a fairly important publisher (understatement), and n-space had a very different reaction from western publishers as compared to the DS gen. So he's not really all that bad, I actually thought he was being honest, just may be a little misguided in his conclusions that's all.