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Forums - Politics - Time for gun law reforms in the USA?

Mr Khan said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Gun laws don't work, because criminals don't obey the laws. That's why they're criminals.

How many school shootings would have been as bloody if the staff and faculty were allowed guns? Would 9/11 have been successful if passenger and/or flight attendant staff could be armed? How many women would be raped if more of them carried guns?

Not to mention defense against the police. Who knows what the future holds? It's about time that people remembered that the USA even exists today because of guns. If Britain had disarmed the colonies, the Revolution would have never occurred.

There's a reason why people in North Korea and China aren't allowed guns, and it's not because the Governments are opposed to hunting.

 Whereas all of the Eastern Bloc went down peacefully and never had to worry about anything quite like that.

Actually there are a number of Eastern Block countries that are dictatorships or quasi dicatorships.

Azerbaijan, Kazahkistan and Belarus come to mind.



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Mr Khan said:

I've said again and again, you don't need guns to topple dictatorships, and when you do use guns to do so, things tend to wind up rather ugly. The "Free Syrian Army" doesn't seem like it's a very nice group of people, and although they've seen a fairly successful election, Libya is still run by leftover militias from the civil war, whereas all of the Eastern Bloc went down peacefully and never had to worry about anything quite like that.

America was a special case, because what we had really wasn't a "revolution" per se, but was basically a rebellion, of a local government forcibly severing ties between a global one.

And i don't know if you've been to American high school, but do you really want schoolteachers carrying firearms? No no no no no no no.


When you say that the American Revolution wasn't a revolution, but a rebellion... you're really just getting into semantics.

You don't need guns, no. But if you live in a tyrannical dictatorship, you might want one.

Do I want school teachers carrying guns? Not really. Do I want whole schools completely unarmed? Not really. Do I have the right to tell people that they can't hold guns to protect themselves, no matter what their occupation? Not really.

You might not like guns, but that does not give you the right to disarm everybody else.



HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:

iPhones actually have a use, and you can't kill someone with an iPhone (at least, not without a helluva lot of work). If no-one is shooting anyone with them, and they can't be hunting and you sure as hell don't need an AR-15 for personal defense, then why are Americans wasting all their money? Your assertion would be valid if people bought iPhones, but then there were no records of anyone actually using the things.

iPhones are (probably) used in far more crimes, especially drug crimes, than assault rifles are ...

Most people who own these kinds of weapons own them simply for their personal enjoyment and (at most) would use them on a shooting range of some sort. Certainly there are many more guns that meet the needs for any practical use of these weapons, but there are many phones that would meet the practical needs of the iPhone user; and there are many cars that meet the needs of the typical sports car/SUV owner.

Why should the rights of one law abiding group be infringed upon in a misguided attempt to prevent criminals from committing crimes with illegally obtained weapons?

Because the ownership of deadly weapons should not be a right. If it's a cultural matter, then it needs to be weeded out of our culture.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Though it has been a specific agenda of recent tenancies of the US government to uneducate the public, it will always be embarrassing to listen to those that are so vocally stupid.

 

>User was moderated for this post [RH]



 

Mr Khan said:

Because the ownership of deadly weapons should not be a right. If it's a cultural matter, then it needs to be weeded out of our culture.


Anything can be a "deadly weapon" if someone is motivated ...

The motivation, not the tool, leads to violence. If we lived in a happy magic land where you could ban guns the violence would still be there, but people would use knives, baseball bats, and any other weapon they could fashion.

Beyond that, how are you ever going to prevent people from owning weapons when we not have affordable technologies that allow people to "print" assault rifles?

Gun control is as outdated today as trying to prevent music theft by preventing people from shoplifting at HMV.



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Pjams said:

Though it has been a specific agenda of recent tenancies of the US government to uneducate the public, it will always be embarrassing to listen to those that are so vocally stupid.




Your post is quite ironic.



SamuelRSmith said:
Mr Khan said:

I've said again and again, you don't need guns to topple dictatorships, and when you do use guns to do so, things tend to wind up rather ugly. The "Free Syrian Army" doesn't seem like it's a very nice group of people, and although they've seen a fairly successful election, Libya is still run by leftover militias from the civil war, whereas all of the Eastern Bloc went down peacefully and never had to worry about anything quite like that.

America was a special case, because what we had really wasn't a "revolution" per se, but was basically a rebellion, of a local government forcibly severing ties between a global one.

And i don't know if you've been to American high school, but do you really want schoolteachers carrying firearms? No no no no no no no.


When you say that the American Revolution wasn't a revolution, but a rebellion... you're really just getting into symantics.

You don't need guns, no. But if you live in a tyrannical dictatorship, you might want one.

Do I want school teachers carrying guns? Not really. Do I want whole schools completely unarmed? Not really. Do I have the right to tell people that they can't hold guns to protect themselves, no matter what their occupation? Not really.

You might not like guns, but that does not give you the right to disarm everybody else.

It's not semantics, it's a very important distinction. The politics of a regional rebellion versus a revolution run completely differently, because in a regional rebellion, the majority of people living within a geographic area resolve to have their region break away, and this then is a decision often backed up by the local government, duly elected, or at least representative of the people's desire to break away from the national government. This means that if the rebellion succeeds, the new government already has structures in place, and can operate off of the old social contracts, just independently of the old overlords. This makes for a scenario much, much cleaner than a revolution. That's why there was never any real danger (despite what historical anecdotes may say) of George Washington becoming a military dictator, because he was appointed by the Continental Congress, who were appointed by Colonial Governments, duly elected by the colonial peoples: lots of structure and order in the whole affair

Compare that to, say, real revolutions: 1790s France or 1917 Russia. The dynamics are completely different, and in the case of a real revolution, gun ownership makes things much worse, because you have a breakdown of the state monopoly on use of force and armed groups running around, suddenly any guarantees for an orderly process or any attempts to preserve rights or liberties have gone out the window, entirely at the mercy of how well-organized the armed groups are, and whether they happen to believe in such things (because even if they are pro-liberty, like the leadership of the Libyan Transitional Council, if they don't have total control over their ranks, you end up with Libya as it is)

Really, the American Revolution should be called the "American War of Independence," as "Revolution" is the incorrect term.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:
Mr Khan said:
I'll note that gun-rights advocates seem to love the reducto ad absurdum fallacy, and leave the thread for now.


Have you ever shot an assault rifle?

No, and I intend not to. Can't even be drafted (flat-footed).

So you want to ban something out of sheer ignorance - since you obviously don't know what an assault rifle is for, sans militaristic uses. Got it.

The reality is that an assault rifle is the premier platform for competitive shooting. They combine the accuracy and distance of a sniper rifle with the capacity and rate of fire of a handgun (obviously at a cost of size). They're incredibly fun to shoot for stress relief. There is nothing in the world quite as fun as using an AR-15 to ding targets at 100 yards away at command.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

By the way, my gun stance is based solely on having evaluated the different studies regarding it and finding which studies were more flawed.

I could give a damn about gun ownership, I don't plan to own one, and I don't really think the right to bear arms is going to help overthrow the government until the average citizen can afford their own airfield and Jet Fighter.

Never fired a gun, don't want to.

It's worth noting, most crimes are committed by people you know... so these are people who will likely know if you own a gun or not.



Kasz216 said:
By the way, my gun stance is based solely on having evaluated the different studies regarding it and finding which studies were more flawed.

I could give a damn about gun ownership, I don't plan to own one, and I don't really think the right to bear arms is going to help overthrow the government until the average citizen can afford their own airfield and Jet Fighter.

Never fired a gun, don't want to.

It's worth noting, most crimes are committed by people you know... so these are people who will likely know if you own a gun or not.


I'm more or less of the same stance - I don't own a gun myself. Although my brother does and I love to shoot for leisure on his dime (since ownership is pretty expensive). The data available that discusses gun ownership and crime is very sound and impossible to refute.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.