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Forums - Politics - Time for gun law reforms in the USA?

Mr Khan on 06 August 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
Gun laws don't work, because criminals don't obey the laws. That's why they're criminals.

How many school shootings would have been as bloody if the staff and faculty were allowed guns? Would 9/11 have been successful if passenger and/or flight attendant staff could be armed? How many women would be raped if more of them carried guns?

Not to mention defense against the police. Who knows what the future holds? It's about time that people remembered that the USA even exists today because of guns. If Britain had disarmed the colonies, the Revolution would have never occurred.

There's a reason why people in North Korea and China aren't allowed guns, and it's not because the Governments are opposed to hunting.

I've said again and again, you don't need guns to topple dictatorships, and when you do use guns to do so, things tend to wind up rather ugly. The "Free Syrian Army" doesn't seem like it's a very nice group of people, and although they've seen a fairly successful election, Libya is still run by leftover militias from the civil war, whereas all of the Eastern Bloc went down peacefully and never had to worry about anything quite like that.

America was a special case, because what we had really wasn't a "revolution" per se, but was basically a rebellion, of a local government forcibly severing ties between a global one.

And i don't know if you've been to American high school, but do you really want schoolteachers carrying firearms? No no no no no no no.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Mr Khan on 06 August 2012
mrstickball said:
Mr Khan said:

All the more reason for no-one to be buying them.


What kind of logic is that? Like I said, assault rifle-type weapons are the most sold weapons in America currently, yet are used in very few crimes. I love it how you brand tens of millions of firearm owners as being suspicious, again despite the fact that such weapons are rarely used in crimes.

If not suspicious, then they're wasting money on something they clearly don't need.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

HappySqurriel on 06 August 2012
Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:
Mr Khan said:
 

All the more reason for no-one to be buying them.


What kind of logic is that? Like I said, assault rifle-type weapons are the most sold weapons in America currently, yet are used in very few crimes. I love it how you brand tens of millions of firearm owners as being suspicious, again despite the fact that such weapons are rarely used in crimes.

If not suspicious, then they're wasting money on something they clearly don't need.

So iPhones should be banned?



mrstickball on 06 August 2012
Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:
Mr Khan said:
 

All the more reason for no-one to be buying them.


What kind of logic is that? Like I said, assault rifle-type weapons are the most sold weapons in America currently, yet are used in very few crimes. I love it how you brand tens of millions of firearm owners as being suspicious, again despite the fact that such weapons are rarely used in crimes.

If not suspicious, then they're wasting money on something they clearly don't need.

I could say that about a great many things. Especially video games. Lets ban video games. They don't really serve a purpose, especially the M rated ones. They're training kids to be violent. The police should be posted at every Gamestop, and ID each and every person buying a copy of Modern Warfare, or God forbid, Lolipop Chainsaw, because you just know those people are going to rape some little girl in the next week.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Mr Khan on 06 August 2012
HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:

If not suspicious, then they're wasting money on something they clearly don't need.

So iPhones should be banned?

iPhones actually have a use, and you can't kill someone with an iPhone (at least, not without a helluva lot of work). If no-one is shooting anyone with them, and they can't be hunting and you sure as hell don't need an AR-15 for personal defense, then why are Americans wasting all their money? Your assertion would be valid if people bought iPhones, but then there were no records of anyone actually using the things.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Mr Khan on 06 August 2012

I'll note that gun-rights advocates seem to love the reducto ad absurdum fallacy, and leave the thread for now.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

mrstickball on 06 August 2012
Mr Khan said:
I'll note that gun-rights advocates seem to love the reducto ad absurdum fallacy, and leave the thread for now.


Have you ever shot an assault rifle?



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Mr Khan on 06 August 2012
mrstickball said:
Mr Khan said:
I'll note that gun-rights advocates seem to love the reducto ad absurdum fallacy, and leave the thread for now.


Have you ever shot an assault rifle?

No, and I intend not to. Can't even be drafted (flat-footed).



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

HappySqurriel on 06 August 2012
Mr Khan said:
HappySqurriel said:
Mr Khan said:
 

If not suspicious, then they're wasting money on something they clearly don't need.

So iPhones should be banned?

iPhones actually have a use, and you can't kill someone with an iPhone (at least, not without a helluva lot of work). If no-one is shooting anyone with them, and they can't be hunting and you sure as hell don't need an AR-15 for personal defense, then why are Americans wasting all their money? Your assertion would be valid if people bought iPhones, but then there were no records of anyone actually using the things.

iPhones are (probably) used in far more crimes, especially drug crimes, than assault rifles are ...

Most people who own these kinds of weapons own them simply for their personal enjoyment and (at most) would use them on a shooting range of some sort. Certainly there are many more guns that meet the needs for any practical use of these weapons, but there are many phones that would meet the practical needs of the iPhone user; and there are many cars that meet the needs of the typical sports car/SUV owner.

Why should the rights of one law abiding group be infringed upon in a misguided attempt to prevent criminals from committing crimes with illegally obtained weapons?



Kasz216 on 06 August 2012
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
 

I've said before, these city-by-city bans won't work because of the loose laws within driving distance. It's easy to buy a gun legally elsewhere and simply drag it back into town. A nationwide ban would make it different.

Ok, but that doesn't explain why crime rates seem to go down when such laws are struck down as unconstitutional.

Is this a momentary trend, or one that persists over time?

Depends on your definition of momentary.

Though crime isn't going to go down forever...

In general though, repeal of gun laws seems to almost always end up with a decline in violent crimes.

Research seems to show that gun ownership prevents crimes more often then cause crimes.

Except for one study that doesn't consider it a crime unless you've been physically attacked before you pull out a gun.

 

Statistically using proper comparative and longitudal studies... gun ownership seems to correlate with a reduction in violent crime.