By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox 360 failure rates are reportedly down to PS3 levels, just as the generation comes to a close

Chris Hu said:

S.T.A.G.E. is too much of a Sony fanboy in his eyes everyone is afraid of Sony.  He probably also thinks that Nintendo lauched the 3DS early because they where afraid of the Vita even though Nintendo owns the handheld market since the launch of the original gameboy back in 1989.  Even though as dominat as the PS1, and PS2 (more so) where they where never on the same level of dominance as the NES.  Nintendo pretty much controlled all the 3rd party developers during that era they dictated what types of games they could make and how many units they could manufacture.  Also MS was pretty fast in owning up to and resolving all the hardware issuses with the 360.  Sony never publicly acknowledged any of their hardware issuse with both the PS1 and PS2 and did nothing for consumers that where affected. 


It's not that I am a Sony fanboy, it's that I think its decent to fix your problems before the generation ends or have a quality product from the beginning. Your problem is that you're acting like a Microsoft fanboy. I made a clear point that Microsoft had to beat Sony, and articles which showed proof of neglect including manufacturers pointing the finger at Microsoft. They risked the console and it took them the whole generation to fix the problems. I am glad its finished (Proof in this is that I purchased a new 360), but it will forever tarnish their name. You have provided zero facts to back your statement.



Around the Network
slowmo said:
happydolphin said:
Chris Hu said:

In peoples lives hiatus are usally a good thing in business hiatus are pretty much a bad thing already mentioned Atari can't think of another example because usually when a company takes a hiatus it means that they are gone forever.  Your either in business or out of business.  Also businesses launch faulty products all the time just look at the Chevy Cruze it had numerous problem when it launched in the US but really its should have had close to no problems since its basicly a rebranded Holden Cruze/Daewoo Lacetti Premiere  that was available in other markets two years before the US launch.  The should have resolved all the kinks overseas before the US launch.

And that's exactly what S.T.A.G.E. was trying to say. I mean, of course I'm just offering theoretical workarounds which would include the need for more time and push the launch closer to the PS3 release date. A mild HW-only hiatus with full SW support, in exchange for a reliable HW launch, is not that much to ask for. That's why I weigh more in agreement with S.T.A.G.E., it would seem like something else was rushing them to launch the 360.

Not getting involved discussing a member who is banned, it's not really good etiquette but as for the bolded:

The simple fact is Sony aimed for the same release date Micrsoft did and missed it by a country mile (for a number of reasons) while Micrsoft having spent a lot of money and effort to hit that date decided they would go ahead and gamble on the hardware knowing they could fix any possible issue in future hardware spins.  It was the right corporate decision but in hindsight poor customer service.

Sony is aiming for a similar release date to Microsoft now, not then. 



Adinnieken said:
happydolphin said:
slowmo said:

 knowing they could fix any possible issue in future hardware spins.

@italics. That's your justification?? That's exactly the issue. They didn't QA it adequately enough so this didn't have to happen. It's one thing for you to say they didn't expect the failure rate they had, it's another to haze it out with your usual minor failure rate that can be fixed post-launch.

Let me correct both of you, while you're both arguing. 

Microsoft knew there was an issue in QA, but they believed it to be a yield issue, not an engineering issue.  The belief was that the issue being encountered was the result of one or more components being defective from manufacturing, which in time would be resolved as the manufacturing process improved.  The problem was a far more extensive problem of engineering.  The circuit board material was thinner then it probably should have been, the solder wasn't as high-temp as it could have been, and the heat sink wasn't as tightly attached as it could have been.

Microsoft believed that the problem would happen within a respectable failure rate, which they would then use the planned improvement outline to resolve the issue.  The problem was that it was a bigger issue in the real world than they anticipated.  You can't necessarily blame them when you consider the fact that there are still Day 1 Xbox 360's that work without a hiccup today, but there are some people who seem to have constant problems with older ones having the RRoD.

The RRoD issue wasn't as widespread as people like to believe.  Yes, every Xenos Xbox 360 will experience the RRoD in it's lifetime, if it survives that long.  Some Falcon Xbox 360's will experience the RRoD.   Fewer Jasper Xbox 360 will.    The vast majority of RRoD issues were resolved with the Falcon-based Xbox 360s, but that doesn't mean there weren't people who repeatedly experienced the RRoD.  Why, I don't know.  I only ever experienced one, and it was after almost 2 3/4 years with my Xenos-based Xbox 360, and my console was on many occasions for 18-20 hours and in extreme heat.  Yet it died in October.  Not exactly a warm month in the Northern part of the US.

Microsoft took a gamble that the problem would resolve itself.  Call it inexperience, call it stupidity, call it whatever.  Hindsight is 20/20.  It's easy to sit here today and say, Microsoft should have taken longer to QA the Xbox 360, but I can tell you from personal experience that in the corporate world risks are weighed versus the cost of delay, and often the better wisdom is often ignored.  It happens.

Ford knew the Pinto gas tank would explode before a single Pinto hit the road.  However, because the Pinto's engineering costs needed to be within a certain range in order to ensure Ford could sell it at the price they wanted, they couldn't afford to re-engineer the gas tank.  So what did they do?  They hushed up the engineers or fired them, and kept quiet until someone died.

The Xbox 360 debacle wasn't nearly as serious.  It did, however show Microsoft's inexperience in engineering a consumer electronic device on this caliber.   Microsoft took care of their customers that either had had their consoles repaired prior to the warranty extension, or had their consoles repaired after. 


The 360 debacle was pretty bad. Actually its the worst in gaming history and If it gets worse...well I fear for the day.



While the 360 hardware faults were bad, there is precedent from the early days: the early c64 and ZX spectrum computers were notoriously flakey, Commodore even admitted that they shipped known bad c64s but they needed product on shelves and planned on replacing those dead systems.

Also I don't believe the RRoD fault was as epidemic as portrayed on the internet, which is purely hearsay and not correlated with software sales, which are strong on the xbox 360. Not making excuses for faulty manufacturing, but I don't like misinformation.



Stinky said:
While the 360 hardware faults were bad, there is precedent from the early days: the early c64 and ZX spectrum computers were notoriously flakey, Commodore even admitted that they shipped known bad c64s but they needed product on shelves and planned on replacing those dead systems.

Also I don't believe the RRoD fault was as epidemic as portrayed on the internet, which is purely hearsay and not correlated with software sales, which are strong on the xbox 360. Not making excuses for faulty manufacturing, but I don't like misinformation.


*Response to the bold* Was that an era when 200 million+ people cared about consoles? Just asking.

P.S.

RROD affected a little over 50% (Before the Slim) of the consoles WW at one point. That is an epidemic, which by definition is a temporary affliction that spreads far off affecting numerous people. 



Around the Network

S.T.A.G.E. said:

P.S.

RROD affected a little over 50% (Before the Slim) of the consoles WW at one point. That is an epidemic, which by definition is a temporary affliction that spreads far off affecting numerous people. 


My comment was reflecting on the assumption of some that the RRoD inflated sales figures, which isn't backed up by historic software sales.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Chris Hu said:

S.T.A.G.E. is too much of a Sony fanboy in his eyes everyone is afraid of Sony.  He probably also thinks that Nintendo lauched the 3DS early because they where afraid of the Vita even though Nintendo owns the handheld market since the launch of the original gameboy back in 1989.  Even though as dominat as the PS1, and PS2 (more so) where they where never on the same level of dominance as the NES.  Nintendo pretty much controlled all the 3rd party developers during that era they dictated what types of games they could make and how many units they could manufacture.  Also MS was pretty fast in owning up to and resolving all the hardware issuses with the 360.  Sony never publicly acknowledged any of their hardware issuse with both the PS1 and PS2 and did nothing for consumers that where affected. 


It's not that I am a Sony fanboy, it's that I think its decent to fix your problems before the generation ends or have a quality product from the beginning. Your problem is that you're acting like a Microsoft fanboy. I made a clear point that Microsoft had to beat Sony, and articles which showed proof of neglect including manufacturers pointing the finger at Microsoft. They risked the console and it took them the whole generation to fix the problems. I am glad its finished (Proof in this is that I purchased a new 360), but it will forever tarnish their name. You have provided zero facts to back your statement.

You proved zero facts to back your statements also their are no offical documents anywhere that state Microsoft was afraid that the PS3 was going to launch before the 360 or that MS was in a hurry to launch the 360 because they where afraid of Sony.  Again the main thing that caused the 360 to lanuch early was the messed up business deal MS had with Nvidia.



Stinky said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

P.S.

RROD affected a little over 50% (Before the Slim) of the consoles WW at one point. That is an epidemic, which by definition is a temporary affliction that spreads far off affecting numerous people. 


My comment was reflecting on the assumption of some that the RRoD inflated sales figures, which isn't backed up by historic software sales.

A lot of people who have "assumed" those things have friends who have forked out the money for another 360 to keep in touch with friends and game when they ran out of warranty. I have friends who had warranties that ran out as well and bought 360's that eventually died only to . The used game market thrived on the sales of refurbished 360's. Don't believe me? Call a store called Play N Trade which exists across the US. They'll tell you about the 360.  They are like Gamestop but actually repair the consoles. I've had three 360's, and only forked out my money for it twice. I have friends who have bought refurbished models at Gamestop or new models.  Where I live my Gamestop refuses to take older 360's models. 



Chris Hu said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Chris Hu said:

S.T.A.G.E. is too much of a Sony fanboy in his eyes everyone is afraid of Sony.  He probably also thinks that Nintendo lauched the 3DS early because they where afraid of the Vita even though Nintendo owns the handheld market since the launch of the original gameboy back in 1989.  Even though as dominat as the PS1, and PS2 (more so) where they where never on the same level of dominance as the NES.  Nintendo pretty much controlled all the 3rd party developers during that era they dictated what types of games they could make and how many units they could manufacture.  Also MS was pretty fast in owning up to and resolving all the hardware issuses with the 360.  Sony never publicly acknowledged any of their hardware issuse with both the PS1 and PS2 and did nothing for consumers that where affected. 


It's not that I am a Sony fanboy, it's that I think its decent to fix your problems before the generation ends or have a quality product from the beginning. Your problem is that you're acting like a Microsoft fanboy. I made a clear point that Microsoft had to beat Sony, and articles which showed proof of neglect including manufacturers pointing the finger at Microsoft. They risked the console and it took them the whole generation to fix the problems. I am glad its finished (Proof in this is that I purchased a new 360), but it will forever tarnish their name. You have provided zero facts to back your statement.

You proved zero facts to back your statements also their are no offical documents anywhere that state Microsoft was afraid that the PS3 was going to launch before the 360 or that MS was in a hurry to launch the 360 because they where afraid of Sony.  Again the main thing that caused the 360 to lanuch early was the messed up business deal MS had with Nvidia.


You've blamed NVidia a thousand times for messed up business deal with MS. Even if this is true it doesn't explain why MS rushed the 360. As for the rest of the your statement....what....are....you...talking....about?



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Chris Hu said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Chris Hu said:

S.T.A.G.E. is too much of a Sony fanboy in his eyes everyone is afraid of Sony.  He probably also thinks that Nintendo lauched the 3DS early because they where afraid of the Vita even though Nintendo owns the handheld market since the launch of the original gameboy back in 1989.  Even though as dominat as the PS1, and PS2 (more so) where they where never on the same level of dominance as the NES.  Nintendo pretty much controlled all the 3rd party developers during that era they dictated what types of games they could make and how many units they could manufacture.  Also MS was pretty fast in owning up to and resolving all the hardware issuses with the 360.  Sony never publicly acknowledged any of their hardware issuse with both the PS1 and PS2 and did nothing for consumers that where affected. 


It's not that I am a Sony fanboy, it's that I think its decent to fix your problems before the generation ends or have a quality product from the beginning. Your problem is that you're acting like a Microsoft fanboy. I made a clear point that Microsoft had to beat Sony, and articles which showed proof of neglect including manufacturers pointing the finger at Microsoft. They risked the console and it took them the whole generation to fix the problems. I am glad its finished (Proof in this is that I purchased a new 360), but it will forever tarnish their name. You have provided zero facts to back your statement.

You proved zero facts to back your statements also their are no offical documents anywhere that state Microsoft was afraid that the PS3 was going to launch before the 360 or that MS was in a hurry to launch the 360 because they where afraid of Sony.  Again the main thing that caused the 360 to lanuch early was the messed up business deal MS had with Nvidia.


You've blamed NVidia a thousand times for messed up business deal with MS. Even if this is true it doesn't explain why MS rushed the 360. As for the rest of the your statement....what....are....you...talking....about?

You appearently can't understand basic English because I already went over this twice Nvidia stopped making the GPU for the "original" X-box on "Agust of 2005" which means that MIcrosoft "couldn't" make anymore "orginal" X-Boxes.  Read what I said carefuly and mabye the quotes can make you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth.  If not then your english comprehension is worse then Jackie Chan's.