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Forums - Politics - Iran will be a Nuclear State by 2014.

sperrico87 on 17 July 2012
Slimebeast said:
sperrico87 said:
Kasz216 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

i don't see the point of spreading all this  fear. all this coming from the mainstream media as well. But, somehow everyone forgot Pakistan have nukes, and there is supposedly talibans in there.

So your point is... one really unstable country that may have terrorists in it has nukes so we should hand them out to every unstable nation with terrorists in it?

Have you really thought this arguement through?


That and the "The US is the only country to have used nukes" are about the laziest, uncritically most unthought out arguements I've ever seen on the issue.

Nearly every country that surrounds Iran has nukes, so wouldn't you at least acknowledge why it might be natural for them to want nukes as well?  If they were a nuclear state like us and so many of our allies, they would be given more respect and people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss and ridicule them. 

The media, and therefore most people over here are totally blind and ignorant when it comes to nations that are not fully westernized and Christian.  The argument you just made basically stating that any country we deem "unstable" that "has terrorists in it" shouldn't have nukes, I believe is grievously incorrect.

There are terrorists in the United States as well, does that mean from another country's perspective we shouldn't be allowed to have nukes either?  Who gets to decide that?  Who are we to go around the world and determine who does and doesn't deserve to have nuclear weapons?  Who is anyone else to determine whether or not we are?  What makes us in the US so special that we have the right to determine what other nations are and are not allowed to do? 

Theocratic rogue states shouldn't have nukes. Any sane person should agree with that, unless you belong to either part of the clash of civilizations (Western freedom & secular democracy ideals versus Third world religious & apocalyptic ideals and/or communist worldwide revolution illusions).

Let me ask again: What gives us the right to determine who is and is not allowed to have nuclear weapons?  Where do we get that authority from?



 

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Slimebeast on 17 July 2012
sperrico87 said:
Slimebeast said:
sperrico87 said:
Kasz216 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

i don't see the point of spreading all this  fear. all this coming from the mainstream media as well. But, somehow everyone forgot Pakistan have nukes, and there is supposedly talibans in there.

So your point is... one really unstable country that may have terrorists in it has nukes so we should hand them out to every unstable nation with terrorists in it?

Have you really thought this arguement through?


That and the "The US is the only country to have used nukes" are about the laziest, uncritically most unthought out arguements I've ever seen on the issue.

Nearly every country that surrounds Iran has nukes, so wouldn't you at least acknowledge why it might be natural for them to want nukes as well?  If they were a nuclear state like us and so many of our allies, they would be given more respect and people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss and ridicule them. 

The media, and therefore most people over here are totally blind and ignorant when it comes to nations that are not fully westernized and Christian.  The argument you just made basically stating that any country we deem "unstable" that "has terrorists in it" shouldn't have nukes, I believe is grievously incorrect.

There are terrorists in the United States as well, does that mean from another country's perspective we shouldn't be allowed to have nukes either?  Who gets to decide that?  Who are we to go around the world and determine who does and doesn't deserve to have nuclear weapons?  Who is anyone else to determine whether or not we are?  What makes us in the US so special that we have the right to determine what other nations are and are not allowed to do? 

Theocratic rogue states shouldn't have nukes. Any sane person should agree with that, unless you belong to either part of the clash of civilizations (Western freedom & secular democracy ideals versus Third world religious & apocalyptic ideals and/or communist worldwide revolution illusions).

Let me ask again: What gives us the right to determine who is and is not allowed to have nuclear weapons?  Where do we get that authority from?

Kasz I think has repeatedly explained it in this thread already.

But simply put:

The background is historical: unfortunately some states were able to aquire nukes before there was any working controlling authority in place.

But now we have.

And the rule is simple (and it's not a USA invention): no state that already doesn't have nukes is allowed to aquire nukes. And it doesn't matter if it's Canada,Germany, Italy, Sweden, Brazil, Nigeria or Iran. It doesn't matter who you are or what your status as a nation is. No state is allowed to destabilize the world even more by becoming another nation with nukes.



bouzane on 17 July 2012
Slimebeast said:
Icy-Zone said:
Kasz216 said:

Oh... and I think most Iranians would generally take offense at that video "Telling their side of the story".

I quite think you'd be arrested as soon as you hit the section on Religion...

So i'm not quite sure why you thought that video was going to give me the Iranian perspective.


Because the film was focused purely on religion and didn't cover topics such as the Israel's unlawful occupation of land, and the threat of a very unstable and aggressive country called America. I'm sure the majority (keyword since you love democracy so much) of Iranians would agree with, and already understand much of what was shown.

Basically put, if Iran isn't allowed nukes, the US shouldn't be allowed either.

If you want to follow a scoreboard for nuke usage (this could possibly be a way to measure stability, even though stability is hardly quantifiable) we can say that the US has two points:  for the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, whilst the Iranians have a score of 0. So to say that Iran is the type that would drop nukes should they acquire some, is purely speculation as there has been no past behaviour, on their part, that would suggeset they would.

Thank you and have a great day.

It always comes down to Israel.

Israel is the big obsession of communists and muslims. Apart from the persecution of Jews throughout history, the hate towards Israel is by far the strongest in political history ever.

 


Um, Evangelists seem to be just as obsessed with Israel as anybody else. Such a liability should not determine so much American legislation. Also, America's nuclear track record is one of, if not the single most irresponsible. As frightening as Iranian nukes would be, America's nuclear arsenal is far more dangerous to the people's of the earth.

Also, I must laugh at the concept of "Western freedom & secular democracy". I wish I lived in Russia where I would be free to buy a Saiga and smoke up. As far as democracy goes, it doesn't work. That's why America's founding fathers insisted upon a republic. Oh well, the religious right still gets to routinely impose their will upon the entire populace anyway :/



Slimebeast on 17 July 2012
bouzane said:
Slimebeast said:
Icy-Zone said:
Kasz216 said:

Oh... and I think most Iranians would generally take offense at that video "Telling their side of the story".

I quite think you'd be arrested as soon as you hit the section on Religion...

So i'm not quite sure why you thought that video was going to give me the Iranian perspective.


Because the film was focused purely on religion and didn't cover topics such as the Israel's unlawful occupation of land, and the threat of a very unstable and aggressive country called America. I'm sure the majority (keyword since you love democracy so much) of Iranians would agree with, and already understand much of what was shown.

Basically put, if Iran isn't allowed nukes, the US shouldn't be allowed either.

If you want to follow a scoreboard for nuke usage (this could possibly be a way to measure stability, even though stability is hardly quantifiable) we can say that the US has two points:  for the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, whilst the Iranians have a score of 0. So to say that Iran is the type that would drop nukes should they acquire some, is purely speculation as there has been no past behaviour, on their part, that would suggeset they would.

Thank you and have a great day.

It always comes down to Israel.

Israel is the big obsession of communists and muslims. Apart from the persecution of Jews throughout history, the hate towards Israel is by far the strongest in political history ever.

 


Um, Evangelists seem to be just as obsessed with Israel as anybody else. Such a liability should not determine so much American legislation. Also, America's nuclear track record is one of, if not the single most irresponsible. As frightening as Iranian nukes would be, America's nuclear arsenal is far more dangerous to the people's of the earth.

Also, I must laugh at the concept of "Western freedom & secular democracy". I wish I lived in Russia where I would be free to buy a Saiga and smoke up. As far as democracy goes, it doesn't work. That's why America's founding fathers insisted upon a republic. Oh well, the religious right still gets to routinely impose their will upon the entire populace anyway :/

As an evangelical myself I have no problem to admit I have an obsession with Israel though. And it's for supernatural reasons, based on Biblical prophecies, not some hypocritical quasi-ethical lies that the socialists put forth (and some people from the Arab world too, but in their defense; that's only for tactical reasons - to make the Israeli-Arab conflict appear as a human-rights issue in front of a naive Western world). I want Israel to win and to keep Jerusalem forever, and I know they will win no matter how much Satan and the world hates them.

American nukes are no threat to the world. It's ridiculous to claim otherwise. What happened in the 40's is not relevant today.

The Mullah controlled Iran is an entrely different issue. Their hate towards Israel, and like Kasz described, in a desperate situation that nuclear threat would be a very serious threat. Then there's the risk of smaller dirty bombs. It's not wild fantasies to imagine a nuclear Iran sell primitive dirty bombs to Hizbollah to use against Israel. Such a scenario could hurt Israel a lot and with Israel's hands pretty tightly tied politically it wouldn't be that easy for them to retaliate if they wouldn't have clear evidence (and the world would blame them anyway).



bouzane on 17 July 2012
Slimebeast said:
bouzane said:
Slimebeast said:
Icy-Zone said:
Kasz216 said:

Oh... and I think most Iranians would generally take offense at that video "Telling their side of the story".

I quite think you'd be arrested as soon as you hit the section on Religion...

So i'm not quite sure why you thought that video was going to give me the Iranian perspective.


Because the film was focused purely on religion and didn't cover topics such as the Israel's unlawful occupation of land, and the threat of a very unstable and aggressive country called America. I'm sure the majority (keyword since you love democracy so much) of Iranians would agree with, and already understand much of what was shown.

Basically put, if Iran isn't allowed nukes, the US shouldn't be allowed either.

If you want to follow a scoreboard for nuke usage (this could possibly be a way to measure stability, even though stability is hardly quantifiable) we can say that the US has two points:  for the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, whilst the Iranians have a score of 0. So to say that Iran is the type that would drop nukes should they acquire some, is purely speculation as there has been no past behaviour, on their part, that would suggeset they would.

Thank you and have a great day.

It always comes down to Israel.

Israel is the big obsession of communists and muslims. Apart from the persecution of Jews throughout history, the hate towards Israel is by far the strongest in political history ever.

 


Um, Evangelists seem to be just as obsessed with Israel as anybody else. Such a liability should not determine so much American legislation. Also, America's nuclear track record is one of, if not the single most irresponsible. As frightening as Iranian nukes would be, America's nuclear arsenal is far more dangerous to the people's of the earth.

Also, I must laugh at the concept of "Western freedom & secular democracy". I wish I lived in Russia where I would be free to buy a Saiga and smoke up. As far as democracy goes, it doesn't work. That's why America's founding fathers insisted upon a republic. Oh well, the religious right still gets to routinely impose their will upon the entire populace anyway :/

As an evangelical myself I have no problem to admit I have an obsession with Israel though. And it's for supernatural reasons, based on Biblical prophecies, not some hypocritical quasi-ethical lies that the socialists put forth (and some people from the Arab world too, but in their defense; that's only for tactical reasons - to make the Israeli-Arab conflict appear as a human-rights issue in front of a naive Western world). I want Israel to win and to keep Jerusalem forever, and I know they will win no matter how much Satan and the world hates them.

American nukes are no threat to the world. It's ridiculous to claim otherwise. What happened in the 40's is not relevant today.

The Mullah controlled Iran is an entrely different issue. Their hate towards Israel, and like Kasz described, in a desperate situation that nuclear threat would be a very serious threat. Then there's the risk of smaller dirty bombs. It's not wild fantasies to imagine a nuclear Iran sell primitive dirty bombs to Hizbollah to use against Israel. Such a scenario could hurt Israel a lot and with Israel's hands pretty tightly tied politically it wouldn't be that easy for them to retaliate if they wouldn't have clear evidence (and the world would blame them anyway).


It's terrifying to think that this mentality is common. It makes my blood run cold. No offense but religious fanaticism is the same on both sides and it will lead to the destruction of our paradise.

American nukes aren't a threat to the world!? What is your definition of a threat?

You know, people keep talking about the threat Iran poses to Israel but I see a lot more threat beings made against Iran.

PS. It's spelled Hezbollah.



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sperrico87 on 17 July 2012
Slimebeast said:
sperrico87 said:
Slimebeast said:
sperrico87 said:
Kasz216 said:
deskpro2k3 said:

i don't see the point of spreading all this  fear. all this coming from the mainstream media as well. But, somehow everyone forgot Pakistan have nukes, and there is supposedly talibans in there.

So your point is... one really unstable country that may have terrorists in it has nukes so we should hand them out to every unstable nation with terrorists in it?

Have you really thought this arguement through?


That and the "The US is the only country to have used nukes" are about the laziest, uncritically most unthought out arguements I've ever seen on the issue.

Nearly every country that surrounds Iran has nukes, so wouldn't you at least acknowledge why it might be natural for them to want nukes as well?  If they were a nuclear state like us and so many of our allies, they would be given more respect and people wouldn't be so quick to dismiss and ridicule them. 

The media, and therefore most people over here are totally blind and ignorant when it comes to nations that are not fully westernized and Christian.  The argument you just made basically stating that any country we deem "unstable" that "has terrorists in it" shouldn't have nukes, I believe is grievously incorrect.

There are terrorists in the United States as well, does that mean from another country's perspective we shouldn't be allowed to have nukes either?  Who gets to decide that?  Who are we to go around the world and determine who does and doesn't deserve to have nuclear weapons?  Who is anyone else to determine whether or not we are?  What makes us in the US so special that we have the right to determine what other nations are and are not allowed to do? 

Theocratic rogue states shouldn't have nukes. Any sane person should agree with that, unless you belong to either part of the clash of civilizations (Western freedom & secular democracy ideals versus Third world religious & apocalyptic ideals and/or communist worldwide revolution illusions).

Let me ask again: What gives us the right to determine who is and is not allowed to have nuclear weapons?  Where do we get that authority from?

Kasz I think has repeatedly explained it in this thread already.

But simply put:

The background is historical: unfortunately some states were able to aquire nukes before there was any working controlling authority in place.

But now we have.

And the rule is simple (and it's not a USA invention): no state that already doesn't have nukes is allowed to aquire nukes. And it doesn't matter if it's Canada,Germany, Italy, Sweden, Brazil, Nigeria or Iran. It doesn't matter who you are or what your status as a nation is. No state is allowed to destabilize the world even more by becoming another nation with nukes.

So, basically what you're saying is: A lot of powerful nations with a nuclear arsenal are unwilling to accept that other nations want what they have.  Obviously, nations with nukes wouldn't want any competition from other nations that are without them, especially if they weren't friendly westernized Christian nations.  I understand what you're saying, that there is a ring of power, all of whom are unwilling to allow anyone else what they already have.  I'm merely suggesting to you that it isn't right, no nation has the right to tell another nation what to do or what not to do, and that the world would be a much safer place if either no country had nuclear capability, or everyone did.



 

Mr Khan on 17 July 2012
Kasz216 said:
Icy-Zone said:
Is it just me or does OP seem a little racist towards Arabs and Muslims? I'm not even trolling. This is coming from observing his stance on numerous topics pertaining to the Middle East. Maybe you should befriend some Arabs and Persians, they're the kindest friends I have, and I'm African-Canadian.

I do have freinds who came from the Middle east.  Work for a middleastern guy too... none of them want Iran to have Nuclear weapons.

I'm not racist against the middle eastern people.  I'm not a fan of unstable dictatorships having nuclear weapons no matter where they are located.

Wasn't for North Korea having Nuclear weapons either.

If there was a way to get Nuclear weapons away from Belarus, that'd be awesome.

If Iran was a stable democracy mostly free of corruption (Say one that would be listed a "Full Democracy" in the Democracy index) fine.

We should be limiting nuclear weapons to dictatorships because dictatorships are unstable... and are run by peopel who will be put in an unwinnable corner.

Belarus has nukes left from the Soviet arsenal?

And Belarus is fairly stable as dictatorships go. Belarus has no room for ambition, and is entirely focused on running a balancing act between Russia and any alternative to Russia.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Slimebeast on 17 July 2012
bouzane said:
Slimebeast said:
bouzane said:
Slimebeast said:
Icy-Zone said:
Kasz216 said:

Oh... and I think most Iranians would generally take offense at that video "Telling their side of the story".

I quite think you'd be arrested as soon as you hit the section on Religion...

So i'm not quite sure why you thought that video was going to give me the Iranian perspective.


Because the film was focused purely on religion and didn't cover topics such as the Israel's unlawful occupation of land, and the threat of a very unstable and aggressive country called America. I'm sure the majority (keyword since you love democracy so much) of Iranians would agree with, and already understand much of what was shown.

Basically put, if Iran isn't allowed nukes, the US shouldn't be allowed either.

If you want to follow a scoreboard for nuke usage (this could possibly be a way to measure stability, even though stability is hardly quantifiable) we can say that the US has two points:  for the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, whilst the Iranians have a score of 0. So to say that Iran is the type that would drop nukes should they acquire some, is purely speculation as there has been no past behaviour, on their part, that would suggeset they would.

Thank you and have a great day.

It always comes down to Israel.

Israel is the big obsession of communists and muslims. Apart from the persecution of Jews throughout history, the hate towards Israel is by far the strongest in political history ever.

 


Um, Evangelists seem to be just as obsessed with Israel as anybody else. Such a liability should not determine so much American legislation. Also, America's nuclear track record is one of, if not the single most irresponsible. As frightening as Iranian nukes would be, America's nuclear arsenal is far more dangerous to the people's of the earth.

Also, I must laugh at the concept of "Western freedom & secular democracy". I wish I lived in Russia where I would be free to buy a Saiga and smoke up. As far as democracy goes, it doesn't work. That's why America's founding fathers insisted upon a republic. Oh well, the religious right still gets to routinely impose their will upon the entire populace anyway :/

As an evangelical myself I have no problem to admit I have an obsession with Israel though. And it's for supernatural reasons, based on Biblical prophecies, not some hypocritical quasi-ethical lies that the socialists put forth (and some people from the Arab world too, but in their defense; that's only for tactical reasons - to make the Israeli-Arab conflict appear as a human-rights issue in front of a naive Western world). I want Israel to win and to keep Jerusalem forever, and I know they will win no matter how much Satan and the world hates them.

American nukes are no threat to the world. It's ridiculous to claim otherwise. What happened in the 40's is not relevant today.

The Mullah controlled Iran is an entrely different issue. Their hate towards Israel, and like Kasz described, in a desperate situation that nuclear threat would be a very serious threat. Then there's the risk of smaller dirty bombs. It's not wild fantasies to imagine a nuclear Iran sell primitive dirty bombs to Hizbollah to use against Israel. Such a scenario could hurt Israel a lot and with Israel's hands pretty tightly tied politically it wouldn't be that easy for them to retaliate if they wouldn't have clear evidence (and the world would blame them anyway).


It's terrifying to think that this mentality is common. It makes my blood run cold. No offense but religious fanaticism is the same on both sides and it will lead to the destruction of our paradise.

American nukes aren't a threat to the world!? What is your definition of a threat?

You know, people keep talking about the threat Iran poses to Israel but I see a lot more threat beings made against Iran.

PS. It's spelled Hezbollah.

I understand it's terrifying. I don't think it will destroy our paradise though because this earth certainly is no paradise.

Threat and threat. Theoretical thrat like a cold war threat. Obviously the nukes help USA and Russia to control the world to some extent. But the more likely a real actual use of those nukes by a nation is, the stronger the threat naturally is. I can't imagine a scenario where USA or Russia would use nukes, but I can easily imagine scenarios where rogue states would use nukes or spread them to terrorists in the form of dirty bombs.

The threats against Iran are mild than vice versa:

"All options are on the table. If Iran disagrees to inspections we might do a surgical strike against theur nuclear facilites"
compared to
"Israel with the help of its lapdog USA is the Satan of the world and should be wiped off the face of the earth, and inshallah, we will witness that day".



bouzane on 17 July 2012
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Icy-Zone said:
Is it just me or does OP seem a little racist towards Arabs and Muslims? I'm not even trolling. This is coming from observing his stance on numerous topics pertaining to the Middle East. Maybe you should befriend some Arabs and Persians, they're the kindest friends I have, and I'm African-Canadian.

I do have freinds who came from the Middle east.  Work for a middleastern guy too... none of them want Iran to have Nuclear weapons.

I'm not racist against the middle eastern people.  I'm not a fan of unstable dictatorships having nuclear weapons no matter where they are located.

Wasn't for North Korea having Nuclear weapons either.

If there was a way to get Nuclear weapons away from Belarus, that'd be awesome.

If Iran was a stable democracy mostly free of corruption (Say one that would be listed a "Full Democracy" in the Democracy index) fine.

We should be limiting nuclear weapons to dictatorships because dictatorships are unstable... and are run by peopel who will be put in an unwinnable corner.

Belarus has nukes left from the Soviet arsenal?

And Belarus is fairly stable as dictatorships go. Belarus has no room for ambition, and is entirely focused on running a balancing act between Russia and any alternative to Russia.


You're right about Belarus being pretty benign unlike Kasz who is wrong about Belarus' nuclear arsenal. Belarus has been nuke free since 1996.



Mr Khan on 17 July 2012
Slimebeast said:
bouzane said:
Slimebeast said:

It always comes down to Israel.

Israel is the big obsession of communists and muslims. Apart from the persecution of Jews throughout history, the hate towards Israel is by far the strongest in political history ever.

 


Um, Evangelists seem to be just as obsessed with Israel as anybody else. Such a liability should not determine so much American legislation. Also, America's nuclear track record is one of, if not the single most irresponsible. As frightening as Iranian nukes would be, America's nuclear arsenal is far more dangerous to the people's of the earth.

Also, I must laugh at the concept of "Western freedom & secular democracy". I wish I lived in Russia where I would be free to buy a Saiga and smoke up. As far as democracy goes, it doesn't work. That's why America's founding fathers insisted upon a republic. Oh well, the religious right still gets to routinely impose their will upon the entire populace anyway :/

As an evangelical myself I have no problem to admit I have an obsession with Israel though. And it's for supernatural reasons, based on Biblical prophecies, not some hypocritical quasi-ethical lies that the socialists put forth (and some people from the Arab world too, but in their defense; that's only for tactical reasons - to make the Israeli-Arab conflict appear as a human-rights issue in front of a naive Western world). I want Israel to win and to keep Jerusalem forever, and I know they will win no matter how much Satan and the world hates them.

American nukes are no threat to the world. It's ridiculous to claim otherwise. What happened in the 40's is not relevant today.

The Mullah controlled Iran is an entrely different issue. Their hate towards Israel, and like Kasz described, in a desperate situation that nuclear threat would be a very serious threat. Then there's the risk of smaller dirty bombs. It's not wild fantasies to imagine a nuclear Iran sell primitive dirty bombs to Hizbollah to use against Israel. Such a scenario could hurt Israel a lot and with Israel's hands pretty tightly tied politically it wouldn't be that easy for them to retaliate if they wouldn't have clear evidence (and the world would blame them anyway).

Israel's hands are tied? Israel has carte-blanche to do whatever it damn well pleases: war crimes against the Gaza strip or slowly strangling the West Bank while bids for statehood get shut down by the West, or shooting up ships full of perfectly peaceful activists and getting off scot-free. No other country in the world is able to get away with what Israel gets away with, not even America, and it's all due to some combination of misplaced Holocaust guilt and racism (given that Israel fights the scary brown people). Israel with nuclear weapons (which they have, and nobody has batted an eye about) is just as scary as Iran with nuclear weapons (which people think would be apocalyptic or something)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.