By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Former RARE composer - Microsoft 'f@#$ed' RARE over, ruined the company

Sal.Paradise said:
Millenium said:
Sal.Paradise said:

We already know that MS is largely to blame in Rare's demise, but some people will keep denying it to fit their agenda no matter how many times it's stated, it is now at the point where they are trying to discredit multiple Rare employees themselves.

It's hilarious to me and sad at the same time, but I do want more of these statements to come out both to silence those who can't accept the truth and to eventually get a full picture of what exactly went on for all these years, because I find this sort of game dev politicking interesting, especially when it comes to this company.

R.I.P. Rare.

 



Sorry Sal, but I think you're the one twisting things to fit your own agenda now. You think Microsoft told Rare to make Kameo? Nuts and Bolts? Viva Pinata? (<3)? These will have been Rare's idea not the publishers.

There's nothing to twist, the story is there, I'm just following the facts.

Those games are...fine. Ok. nothing like the glory days where they were consistently making the best games in the business across multiple genres. I'm impassioned about this because I loved them so much. 



I just wrote a long as reply but the site didn't post so: If Rare's new projects that they decided to do didn't live up to their former glory that's their responsibilty same as with Zipper. Anyways, I doubt we'll agree bud so I'll leave it at this.



Around the Network
leatherhat said:
Rare's problems were twofold

1.Mismanagement by MS

2. All of their idea men and skilled employees abandoned ship after the MS purchase, leaving a huge void that could never be filled. Its hard to say MS ruined Rare (besides chasing all the talent away) because Rare pre and post MS are practically two different companies.

Actually, the majority left before they got bought by Microsoft.  That is, the people who worked on their two biggest franchises left before Microsoft bought them, and they formed their own studio.  The team behind 007 and Perfect Dark left to form Free Radical 20 months before Perfect Dark launched in 2000.  You can hardly blame Microsoft for that, so something was up at Rare before then. 

The problem that Rare ran into at Microsoft was two-fold.  The Xbox had a more adult audience that Rare's games didn't fit well with, and besides the Banjo series, few of the properties owned by Rare actually sold well.  The rest, the Donkey/Diddy Kong games were properties of Nintendo.

I don't think at this point Microsoft is mismanaging them, but they may be getting away from the games some of them originally went to work at Rare for.

For example, there was talk that Rare was working on a new 3D interface for the Xbox 360 after the launch of Kinect.  With that recent document featuring Project Fortaleza it would appear that is what part of Rare is working on.



He probably means "fucked themselves over" as in, agreeing to being purchased.



homer said:
Didn't their games decline during the gcn era too? Seems like it could have been a slow fade to mediocrity.


They made only one game for the Gamecube, and it was a great game.

And that's amazing, considering the starfox franchise was literally tacked on the game near the end of development and it was an n64 upgraded game.



Millenium said:


I just wrote a long as reply but the site didn't post so: If Rare's new projects that they decided to do didn't live up to their former glory that's their responsibilty same as with Zipper. Anyways, I doubt we'll agree bud so I'll leave it at this.

It's easy arguing that they made the games, so the lack of quality was their fault, but buying a company as talented an as unique as Rare (their isolated, individual way of creaitng games is well noted) and not nurturing the talent and supporting them properly is completely the buyer's fault. Microsoft should have known that Rare depended on having a creative partnership with Nintendo as well as their own personal way of creating games, and tried to do as much as possible to create that same environment  for them, but they were hung out to dry. 

Sorry, not backing down on this one.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-08-who-killed-rare

Kinect Sports and Avatars, baby!

 

On 20th of September 2002, Microsoft paid $375 million for this bonsai tree and all that it symbolised: creative excellence, technical mastery, innovation, originality, soul and the precious fingerprints of Nintendo. The fledgling Microsoft Game Studios, desperate to acquire world-class talent that could help establish its game console, saw in that tree everything it desired to become.

"Microsoft and Rare was a bad marriage from the beginning. The groom was rich. The bride was beautiful. But they wanted to make different games and they wanted to make them in different ways."

"Rare was always looking East at Japanese and Nintendo's games in particular, with their open-hearted childlike vibrancy and playfulness," explains Hollis. "Meanwhile, Microsoft had a US-centric style to its games, a flair of machismo and testosterone. For the first decade after the Microsoft sale the major problem for the creativity of the studio has been direction. Looking in from the outside it felt as if neither Microsoft or Rare could work out where it was headed."

From the inside the studio's gates, too, the changes to Rare introduced by Microsoft tampered with the recipe of the company's success, leaving teams feeling disorientated, and even downcast.

"The changes were imperceptible at first, but became increasingly rapid as time went on," says Phil Tossell. Hired by Hollis in 1997, he cut his teeth on Diddy Kong Racing before working as lead engineer on Dinosaur Planet (which later became Starfox Adventures). He was present at the company through the Microsoft acquisition, and was promoted to Director of Gameplay in 2009 when he oversaw development of Kinect Sports. "For me personally, the atmosphere became much more stifling and a lot more stressful," he says. "There was an overall feeling that you weren't really in control of what you were doing and that you weren't really trusted either.

"There was also a gradual introduction of certain Microsoft behaviours that crept into the way we did things: lots more meetings, performance reviews and far more regard for your position within the company," he said. "While these weren't necessarily good or bad per se, they began to erode the traditional Rare culture and way of doing things. Many of the people who'd been there a long time found these changes extremely hard to accept."

That culture appears to be the secret of Rare's success in the 1990s, a unique setup in game development at the time. "The general feeling at the time was that, as a company, we were invincible and that anything was possible," says Tossell. "It was incredible to be surrounded by so many talented people, all of whom were single-mindedly focused on making the best games that we could. I never realised it at the time, but I think what was most unique was the sense of freedom and responsibility that the Stampers gave to each team. They trusted us to get the job done. As a result, you always felt like you wanted to do the absolute best that you could for them."

However, in time it became clear that everyone had underestimated how much of the studio's success was down to Nintendo's gentle steering. "It seemed like Microsoft was really a novice in the games industry and for some time they left us to try and see how things worked," Cook explains. "They wanted hit games for their console and since they weren't sure how to go about it they trusted Rare to do what was necessary. The problem here was that Rare was a very long way from the very corporate structure of Microsoft and when Rare had made games it wasn't in isolation from Nintendo but as a creative partnership.

"The kind of support that Nintendo offered wasn't available at Microsoft because Microsoft hadn't the experience. Ed Fries was aware of this, he was a very understanding person and wanted to foster studio culture and allow studios like Rare to build a space for themselves inside the Microsoft structure. Microsoft had a strong corporate identity and was very successful so it was only a matter of time until they applied their tried-and-tested corporate success to their new studio acquisitions."

About a year after the acquisition Fries left Microsoft and the changes became more pronounced. "The biggest change for me was the closing of the testing department. I'd already 'escaped' into design but the shock of losing the up-and-coming talent being developed in testing was a big wake-up call.



Around the Network

For me Rare are a shadow of their former selves, I don't know who is to blame and to what degree, but that fact is IMO indisputable.




@Sal.Paradise

You seem to think the Rare that MS purchased was talented. Nintendo sold them for a reason. They saw the writing on the wall. Most of Rare's talent was gone with MS purchased them. You don't sell one of your most talent developers to a competitor if you think they are still capable.



Adinnieken said:

kowenicki said:
"Makes me cry every day of my life"?

....and we are supposed to pay attention to what this pathetic little individual says?

he actually says Rare fucked themselves over by the way.... was he fired early on in MS ownership per chance?


It's ironic that he blames Microsoft, when he left Rare to join Big Huge Games, which in turn was bought by 38 Studios.  Whoops!  Now hopefully when Epic gets Big Huge Games back up and running he has a job, but as I seem to recall Epic has greatly benefited from its partnership with Microsoft.  Interesting how that works.


he did say MS f*&cks up every developer they work with, he just said they f*&cked up rare, which is true. nobody mentioned epic pr 38 studios or any other developer. he was just talking about rare



kowenicki said:
"Makes me cry every day of my life"?

....and we are supposed to pay attention to what this pathetic little individual says?

he actually says Rare fucked themselves over by the way.... was he fired early on in MS ownership per chance?

@bold. What kind of person are you? Yes we are supposed to listen to this little individual and what he says because odds are, much more than corporations with their hypocritical and powerful PR, he's most likely telling the truth...

If you think it's about just him "maybe getting fired early", you're being biased because we know of many other similar cases of this. As they say the apple doesn't fall too far from the apple tree, basic deduction:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=139094&page=1



It was obvous RARE are a shell of themselves. What is more depressing is that the talent that left RARE formed Free Radicals which went bust on a PS3 game (Haze)..You would think a talented team like that would not get themselves into trouble.


At least Crytek baught the studio to form a UK branch. Not sure how many are left from the original RARE talent though.