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Forums - Politics - Thoughts on Obama's "Amnesty" Announcement?

Kasz216 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
leatherhat said:
Americans don't think about the consequences of illegal immigration and an insecure border outside of "I don't want to look racist", so this will be a great move in fueling more illegals which will further fund the cartels who control the border and let them continue the bloody civil war throughout Mexico (and eventually the south west Unites States).


The drug problem could be dealt with by dealing with the drug problem. By ending the war on drugs, the violence in Mexico (and, eventually SW USA) would vastly reduced, perhaps to the point of elimination.

The immigration problem could be easily separated from the drug problem.


I wonder if that's so.

The thing about drugs is... they're REALLY fucking cheap.  That's why we can't keep them out.  If you get one pound of cocaine through for every 1,000 you lose you make a profit. (or something crazy like that.)

 

So either most drugs would be STUPIDLY cheap, or would be taxed up to near current levels and allow drug dealers to undercut legitamite buisness.

 

Afterall there are pretty big black market cigarrette rings based around the taxes western companies have.

 

I think the war on drugs should be ended, so people can make their own choices with there body.... but I question whether it would really solve all the drug issues.

i would argue the issue with the Mexican drug war is more on the "mexican" part of it than the drug part, being largely a product of Mexican political problems



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Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
leatherhat said:
Americans don't think about the consequences of illegal immigration and an insecure border outside of "I don't want to look racist", so this will be a great move in fueling more illegals which will further fund the cartels who control the border and let them continue the bloody civil war throughout Mexico (and eventually the south west Unites States).


The drug problem could be dealt with by dealing with the drug problem. By ending the war on drugs, the violence in Mexico (and, eventually SW USA) would vastly reduced, perhaps to the point of elimination.

The immigration problem could be easily separated from the drug problem.


I wonder if that's so.

The thing about drugs is... they're REALLY fucking cheap.  That's why we can't keep them out.  If you get one pound of cocaine through for every 1,000 you lose you make a profit. (or something crazy like that.)

 

So either most drugs would be STUPIDLY cheap, or would be taxed up to near current levels and allow drug dealers to undercut legitamite buisness.

 

Afterall there are pretty big black market cigarrette rings based around the taxes western companies have.

 

I think the war on drugs should be ended, so people can make their own choices with there body.... but I question whether it would really solve all the drug issues.

i would argue the issue with the Mexican drug war is more on the "mexican" part of it than the drug part, being largely a product of Mexican political problems

Probably.  I haven't really paid much attention to the mexican drug war to be honest with you. 

Mexico Reminds me a lot of Japan.  Too much power concentrated in one party which leads to rampant corruption.

Just pointing out drugs are a lot cheaper then people think... in a free market drugs are gonna be a lot cheaper then a lot of people are probably comfortable with.



Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
leatherhat said:
Americans don't think about the consequences of illegal immigration and an insecure border outside of "I don't want to look racist", so this will be a great move in fueling more illegals which will further fund the cartels who control the border and let them continue the bloody civil war throughout Mexico (and eventually the south west Unites States).


The drug problem could be dealt with by dealing with the drug problem. By ending the war on drugs, the violence in Mexico (and, eventually SW USA) would vastly reduced, perhaps to the point of elimination.

The immigration problem could be easily separated from the drug problem.


I wonder if that's so.

The thing about drugs is... they're REALLY fucking cheap.  That's why we can't keep them out.  If you get one pound of cocaine through for every 1,000 you lose you make a profit. (or something crazy like that.)

 

So either most drugs would be STUPIDLY cheap, or would be taxed up to near current levels and allow drug dealers to undercut legitamite buisness.

 

Afterall there are pretty big black market cigarrette rings based around the taxes western companies have.

 

I think the war on drugs should be ended, so people can make their own choices with there body.... but I question whether it would really solve all the drug issues.

i would argue the issue with the Mexican drug war is more on the "mexican" part of it than the drug part, being largely a product of Mexican political problems

Probably.  I haven't really paid much attention to the mexican drug war to be honest with you. 

Mexico Reminds me a lot of Japan.  Too much power concentrated in one party which leads to rampant corruption.

Just pointing out drugs are a lot cheaper then people think... in a free market drugs are gonna be a lot cheaper then a lot of people are probably comfortable with.

Part of the reason government could make it a tax bonanza. Sell cocaine for 50% of its current market value, pay everyone involved a "fair" wage (for growth, production, sale, etc) and have government pocket the rest.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

I think some Republicans may blow this out of proportion, but I like this idea. Why punish kids who didn't come here willingly or came here through no fault of their own? I'm all for it, especially if they are willing to join the military and get an education to contribute to society. Besides, all we're really doing is focusing more resources on the criminals. We do need to seriously fix the border though.



Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
leatherhat said:
Americans don't think about the consequences of illegal immigration and an insecure border outside of "I don't want to look racist", so this will be a great move in fueling more illegals which will further fund the cartels who control the border and let them continue the bloody civil war throughout Mexico (and eventually the south west Unites States).


The drug problem could be dealt with by dealing with the drug problem. By ending the war on drugs, the violence in Mexico (and, eventually SW USA) would vastly reduced, perhaps to the point of elimination.

The immigration problem could be easily separated from the drug problem.


I wonder if that's so.

The thing about drugs is... they're REALLY fucking cheap.  That's why we can't keep them out.  If you get one pound of cocaine through for every 1,000 you lose you make a profit. (or something crazy like that.)

 

So either most drugs would be STUPIDLY cheap, or would be taxed up to near current levels and allow drug dealers to undercut legitamite buisness.

 

Afterall there are pretty big black market cigarrette rings based around the taxes western companies have.

 

I think the war on drugs should be ended, so people can make their own choices with there body.... but I question whether it would really solve all the drug issues.

i would argue the issue with the Mexican drug war is more on the "mexican" part of it than the drug part, being largely a product of Mexican political problems


The problem is they are funded through border arms,drugs and human trafficing. There are parts of the border that are completely controlled by the cartels. 



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Kasz216 said:

I wonder if that's so.

The thing about drugs is... they're REALLY fucking cheap.  That's why we can't keep them out.  If you get one pound of cocaine through for every 1,000 you lose you make a profit. (or something crazy like that.)

So either most drugs would be STUPIDLY cheap, or would be taxed up to near current levels and allow drug dealers to undercut legitamite buisness.

Afterall there are pretty big black market cigarrette rings based around the taxes western companies have.

I think the war on drugs should be ended, so people can make their own choices with there body.... but I question whether it would really solve all the drug issues.

Well, I assume you mean cheap to manufacture, not cheap to the consumer (afterall, the street price for cocaine around here is £50 a gram... wouldn't call that a bargain, though prices will vary across countries and regions).

But that's exactly the point. Street prices are high because of the war on drugs. Contrary to popular belief, the USA is extremely good at detecting and preventing drug imports, and only the large cartels can afford to get past all the barriers.

It works no different to regulations in other industries. The large corporations benefit from the Government intervention because they are large enough to absorb the imposed costs, and the reduction in competition allows them to charge a much higher price than what they have in costs from the intervention.

It is precisely because of this that the cartels can now afford to effectively become private armies, cut away the regulation, allow greater competition, the cartels' revenues and margins will dramatically decrease, and they will not be able to buy as many guns. Simple.

As for your tobacco argument, you do make a great point. There will still be an illegal market for drugs if the Government decides to regulate/tax legal drugs too highly. Here's the thing, though: the illegal tobacco industry has a far lower share of the tobacco market than what the drug cartels do of the drug market. If the prices between legal/illegal are similar, most will opt for legal, as they have a better guarantee of quality, and they will know the misery that the cartels cause (like fake clothing... lots of people opt out of buying fake clothing because they know the manufacturers are worse than the legit manufacturers).

In order to compensate for this, the illegals will drop their prices, like illegal tobacco producers have, which, again, will result in a drop in revenues and a drop in margins, and thus help to reduce the violence.



That's a completely unethical political move and eerily reminds me of how romans increasingly allowed barbarians to inhabit the empire before it's demise.

Of course deporting kids would be eh.



 

 

 

 

 

killerzX said:
Kantor said:
I like the idea as well. One of the right wing ideas I dislike (especially since even UKIP espouse it) is this unconditional hatred of illegal immigrants and great appreciation for legal immigrants. They provide labour, and quite often can start their own businesses.

If they're just going on welfare, they shouldn't really be here/there, but if they are willing to work to earn their keep, then the USA would do well to have them.


fixed

It's more than that. The Conservative policy of a cap on immigration is popular even with non-Conservatives, and UKIP's immigration policy borders on terrifying (though both are fantastic compared to that of the BNP).



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SamuelRSmith said:
Kasz216 said:

I wonder if that's so.

The thing about drugs is... they're REALLY fucking cheap.  That's why we can't keep them out.  If you get one pound of cocaine through for every 1,000 you lose you make a profit. (or something crazy like that.)

So either most drugs would be STUPIDLY cheap, or would be taxed up to near current levels and allow drug dealers to undercut legitamite buisness.

Afterall there are pretty big black market cigarrette rings based around the taxes western companies have.

I think the war on drugs should be ended, so people can make their own choices with there body.... but I question whether it would really solve all the drug issues.

Well, I assume you mean cheap to manufacture, not cheap to the consumer (afterall, the street price for cocaine around here is £50 a gram... wouldn't call that a bargain, though prices will vary across countries and regions).

But that's exactly the point. Street prices are high because of the war on drugs. Contrary to popular belief, the USA is extremely good at detecting and preventing drug imports, and only the large cartels can afford to get past all the barriers.

It works no different to regulations in other industries. The large corporations benefit from the Government intervention because they are large enough to absorb the imposed costs, and the reduction in competition allows them to charge a much higher price than what they have in costs from the intervention.

It is precisely because of this that the cartels can now afford to effectively become private armies, cut away the regulation, allow greater competition, the cartels' revenues and margins will dramatically decrease, and they will not be able to buy as many guns. Simple.

As for your tobacco argument, you do make a great point. There will still be an illegal market for drugs if the Government decides to regulate/tax legal drugs too highly. Here's the thing, though: the illegal tobacco industry has a far lower share of the tobacco market than what the drug cartels do of the drug market. If the prices between legal/illegal are similar, most will opt for legal, as they have a better guarantee of quality, and they will know the misery that the cartels cause (like fake clothing... lots of people opt out of buying fake clothing because they know the manufacturers are worse than the legit manufacturers).

In order to compensate for this, the illegals will drop their prices, like illegal tobacco producers have, which, again, will result in a drop in revenues and a drop in margins, and thus help to reduce the violence.

Well i'll put it this way.  Cocaine is 50 pounds a gram in europe?

A Kilo wholesale is $1200. 

In pounds... that means instead of 50 pounds a gram... wholesale is   

.76 of a pound per gram.

Even if you triple the price...

That's like 2.30 for a gram.

Kinda crazy no?



Kasz216 said:

Well i'll put it this way.  Cocaine is 50 pounds a gram in europe?

A Kilo wholesale is $1200. 

In pounds... that means instead of 50 pounds a gram... wholesale is   

.76 of a pound per gram.

Even if you triple the price...

That's like 2.30 for a gram.

Kinda crazy no?


Read the rest of my post, I agree with you. It's because of the war on drugs that there is such a gap between cost and price.