So now Nintendo gamers are using adult casuals for their arguments....cause I was clearly refering to adult core experiences. 

In regards to the bold.....now this is where it gets personal and I wanna be delicate here. Most people I know, including myself, mid twenties all with university degrees with careers, wouldn't watch My Little Pony on tv or watch "chick flicks" or "family movies" unless they were with their date/family. Just seems to me that when your an adult, you put those child memories behind you, remember the good memories, and move on to newer, more mature things. As for grown men who continue to watch tv, movies, and play video games meant mostly for children......I have no comment on that. Your lifestyle is your own business.  

Im done here. Everytime someone says Nintendo 1st party makes kiddy games, the flood gates open and in come the grown men who defend their tastes....even though we all know the main players of Mario, Zelda, etc. are children. 

I have no issue with your preferences. I will just like millions of other adult core gamers, keep playing PC/PS3/360. 

Again, how do know this? How do you know Wii U couldn't handle Gears 5? How do you know MS and Sony's console specs will be lightyears beyond Wii U? The economy is in the crapper, and Sony in particular is hemoraging money. I doubt they could afford top of the line consoles with specs that much higher than Wii U, unless risking further losses and possibly irriversible damage to the companies.

I still don't get, just what are people expecting to see out of PS4 and Nextbox's graphics? Explain it to me. I litterally can't see how graphics can get much better at this point, at least not worth the admission of $400-$500 for a brand new console, plus controllers.

I too played Doom, Mechwarrior, and Duke Nukem as a kid. Playing games not meant for you is done by everybody. But now that im older, I just want more out of my games (plot, character developement, and art aesthetics. 

The bold means that the Wii appeals to casuals, not adult core gamers. 

Gaming is a way of escape, but I dont play Nintendo games I played as a kid now out of some misplaced notion that I wanna feel young again. I am where I am in life, and I seek a more adult type of game. This doesnt just mean the violence of Gears or COD, but more rich experiences like Mass Effect, Bioshock that Nintendo 1st party just plainly doesnt deliver. 

Thing is, its all relative. There arent any concrete views....its all personal preference. For me, if a gaming franchise looks for kids and the main install base is children, I stay away. I am disapointed Nintendo can't make 1......just 1, M rated 1st party game. 

If that's so - why did PS2 get all the third-party games, XBOX and Gamecube were so much more powerful. Your reasoning is broken.

No, see, the joke is that I live in Ontario, so... you know what, nevermind

My point was that "adult games" aren't really the realm of adults, so to speak. I played Hogan's Alley when I was very small, and Mortal Kombat and Turok when I was not much older. Ever since I was a kid, I haven't cared about "kiddy" games versus "adult" games, because the distinction doesn't exist for me. I liked Turok because it let me shoot dinosaurs. I liked Mario because it let me throw Bowser face-first into a giant spikey bomb (and, I'll be honest, because it let me wear a hat with wings on it and fly around IN 3D SPACE).

The mean average of Wii players is something like 30, which is higher than any other console. The DS is something like five years below that, I think? I guess I could look that up.

You cannot possibly claim that you play games for reasons that are opposed to escapism. That is preposterous. You have General butt-slapping Raam as your avatar. It doesn't fly.

I think the problem here is that your delineation between games for kids vs. games for adults is - well, it's unsupported! You haven't outlined what "mature" is, what "for adults" is, or anything like that. What makes Turok for adults, rather than for kids? What makes Mario for kids, but not for adults? These are questions you need to answer to support your point.

Personal preference is fine, and having an aesthetic or mechanical preference based on ESRB rating (of all things) is completely acceptable. You are, of course, completely allowed to like wha you like.

But this preoccupation that you have with grown-upness, this insistence that adults who play games "meant for kids" are somehow aberrant (as a guy who sells games I can tell you it's not the case) and that a man out to be a man and put away his Mario? I'm not going to lie, it has this sort of weird, Peter Pand the Lost Boys vibe to it. It's like yeah, let's beat up some Indians and make war! Wait, what?

You still haven't defined what an "adult" game is, what a "mature" game is, and now you've committed the unspeakable sin of adding "rich" to your vernacular without a clear explanation of what that's supposed to be. Again, I am asking you, in the interest of trying to sound like a Grown Up®, to clearly outline what you mean when you use these terms. I'm not asking you to justify your Grown Up® fixation; I am simply asking for you to define it.

You know all the thug life elements of GTA, the mature love stories and sex  in games like Mass Effect, and the over the top violence and sex in God of War and Bayonetta that makes those games such incredibly fun guilty pleasures?  Those things aren't really supposed to be geared towards kids.  And Nintendo hasn't demonstrated that they're very open to having those kinds of experiences on their Disneyfied consoles.  Matter of fact the last time they tried with Platinum's Madworld, they were heavilly criticized by their casual audience and apparently got gunshy about them since there hasn't been a game of that type on one of their consoles since No More Heroes II and Muramasa. 

I don't think there is a defination for the term "adult" game in video games, when, in general, video games are defined as toys. It's our experiences that truly seperate our classification of what is child-like and what is adult. Some people just think that in order for a video game to be considered adult things have to die with blood and gore attached to it. In Mario games, things die all the time, he should essentially be called a murderer, except the blood and gore isn't there for people to link it to their defination of "adult." Same for Zelda, Metriod, etc etc, there's a lot of things within Nintendo franchises that could be considered "adult."

Possibly a bad reference for this, but the Harry Potter series seems to fit this quite well. It was originally targeted for younger audiences, but gradually, it grew into a book that everyone, regardless of age, enjoyed. That's somewhat what Nintendo is and how their games operate in most cases. It's simple but it works for them. It's more of a case of either you like it or you don't, if you're not already interested in Nintendo consoles, I doubt anything they do will change that fact.

Well, I really just wanted to express my thoughts on it. I wasn't really targeting anybody, this quote just seemed simple enough to manage :)

The sex in Mass Effect is probably the least well-handled aspect of the romances in Mass Effect; everything about them that really matters is completely T-rated, and wouldn't be out of place in a Fire Emblem game.

There isn't really any sex to speak of in Bayonetta.

Nintendo does not actively put leashes on the kinds of games released on their cdonsoles. Mad World was a third party title, all M-rated games on the Wii are third-party titles, and Nintendo doesn't stop anyone from makign them. How "welcome" they are has nothing to do with Nintendo's efforts.

I am more or less positive that the bolded never happened, and I defy you to prove that it did.

Muramasa wouldn't really qualify for this discussion, though CoDMW3 would, I guess.

Anyway.

So your'e suggesting that "mature" or "adult" games are necessarily games that include elements or themes that the majority of American parents would find inappropriate for their children, normalized across cultures to weed out the fact that everyone lets their teenagers play GTA, or what?

Challenge Accepted, "' The release of MadWorld for the Wii brings violent videogames to a once family-friendly platform," said Dr. David Walsh, president of the National Institute on Media and the Family. "In MadWorld, gamers use the Wii Remote to make the necessary physical actions to chainsaw an opponent in half, impale an enemy with a signpost or decapitate a victim with a golf club. MadWorld is another reminder that parents need to make sure they watch what their kids watch and play what their kids play. 

"In the past, the Wii has successfully sold itself as being the gaming console for the entire family and a way to bring family-game nights back into people's living rooms. Unfortunately, Nintendo opened its doors to the violent videogame genre. The National Institute on Media and the Family hopes that Nintendo does not lose sight of its initial audience and continues to offer quality, family-friendly games." 

from National Institute on Media and The Family (one of the leading Conservative Watchdog groups in the US) disappointed with Madworld IGN article

  ( http://wii.ign.com/articles/960/960820p1.html )

And, I'm sure this was hyped at the time by the likes of Fox News sending millions of blue haired grandmas into a tizzy of Wii hate and most likely playing a part in the fact that Nintendo really hasn't hyped mature themed games since.

Ideally parents wouldn't be lazy enough in their duties that they let their kids play games like GTA as that would keep lawsuits like those over "Hot Coffee" (  http://www.tgdaily.com/games/38124-gta-%E2%80%98hot-coffee%E2%80%99-lawsuit-means-big-bucks-for-lawyers-small-change-for-regular-folks ) or the ones that Jack Thompson was involved with (   http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,147722,00.html ) from being carried out since its obviously the parents' fault and not the game's if they let their kid play a mature themed game and either see something they shouldn't or carry out some random act of violence as a result of playing the game, and it also in my opinion dilutes the product if developers know that they're making high quality mature themed games that "wink wink nudge nudge" are actually aimed at a teenage demographic.