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Forums - General Discussion - The Logical Flaw of Prayers

DarthVolod said:

The way I see it is that praying is more an expression of loyalty and belief rather than an appeal for a favor or help. Why do soldiers salute a general? It is like an oath of fealty ... if you believe in God and you pray for aid for yourself and others it is a way of demonstrating that you put complete trust in God to lead you on to the right path in life. Obviously, an "all knowing" God would not need to have daily status reports and individualized pleas in order to guide people in the world. It is about declaring allegiance.

That is how I see it, but keep in mind that I am an atheist (but  was Christian before with an extensive history of Catholic schooling) so maybe  am wrong.

There are a number of a types of prayers one can make.  There is ample scripture, and examples from Christian tradition, where prayer is a petition for help, and not just some mindgames one plays with one self, or a way to declare allegiance.  I have to wonder about the problem being that people don't get it, and things don't go as intended, or as they could go, or should go.  This not getting it possibly is due to bad motives, or lack of interest.  It could also come out a desire to save oneself from some things in life.



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I believe in star maths and wishy thinking!!!



 

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OT:

As showed on the God Helmet experiment, as well as the Global Consciousness Project, whether God exists or not, there's a some sort of God gene within every single one of us. Why question something as harmless as praying? The GCP shows that we are tied to one another through each of our mental state and consciousness. It really all comes down on our overall beliefs and whatever help us live through the situation we're all in.

In first or second world countries, there is opportunity and education is a lot more accessible that it is in other countries. Praying doesn't have to denomination-based. It's a matter of finding inner piece, spiritually.



I'm barely religious, bordering on not religious at all. I pray but I normally just say, "Thank you." My life is pretty decent and I'm thankful for that. I've never been the type to say, "Dear God, give please give me a billion dollars." or anything like that. I guess I just have blind faith that things will work out the way they should and I'm just thankful things for me are working out the way that they are.

Oh, almost forgot: It really makes you think, doesn't it?



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
The thing is though that it may not have to do with God changing his mind, but that He may act depending on humans faiths. In other words: The person in need of help is depending on your support. If you don't tell God that He should help him then the person need to die, as a punishment for your lack of faith.

And then the 'Thy will be done' phrase enters the picture...

If god needs you to tell him that you support someone in need of help, then he is not omniscient, as he is supposed to be.



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Aielyn said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
The thing is though that it may not have to do with God changing his mind, but that He may act depending on humans faiths. In other words: The person in need of help is depending on your support. If you don't tell God that He should help him then the person need to die, as a punishment for your lack of faith.

And then the 'Thy will be done' phrase enters the picture...

If god needs you to tell him that you support someone in need of help, then he is not omniscient, as he is supposed to be.

How about prayer as more of a signature on a delivery before you get it, to confirm you want it?  The prayer and the amen are the confirmation to get what is to be delivered?



richardhutnik said:
Aielyn said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
The thing is though that it may not have to do with God changing his mind, but that He may act depending on humans faiths. In other words: The person in need of help is depending on your support. If you don't tell God that He should help him then the person need to die, as a punishment for your lack of faith.

And then the 'Thy will be done' phrase enters the picture...

If god needs you to tell him that you support someone in need of help, then he is not omniscient, as he is supposed to be.

How about prayer as more of a signature on a delivery before you get it, to confirm you want it?  The prayer and the amen are the confirmation to get what is to be delivered?

Again, an omniscient god shouldn't need "confirmation", such a god should already know.



richardhutnik said:

As a person who has an interested in actually practicing and living the life Jesus would be interested in, I do find what happens with Christianity in America annoying, really annoying.  People confuse being a fan of Jesus with being a Christian.  And I see churches pander to this, out of fear of not being able to pay the rent.  With the financial meltdown and lots of people suffering, its placating middle class individuals with marginal teaching that tweak and enrich lives, but don't call for a new foundation (and a means of doing it), really leave me perplexed.  I guess i get annoyed at it in the same way I see how conservatism has been dumbed down immensely by the likes of Fox News and Newscorps offerings.  And then there is a fusion who argue about a "War on Christmas" and miss more major issues.  And then I see hybrid individuals who will argue "Islam is evil" and then go off and say Jesus has nothing to say on economics  or whatever, but they are Christians.  Really?

So, in this, I guess the many will be surprised on Judgement Day would end up being very likely true.

Yeah, that's probably quite true.



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i disagree! praying makes a lot of sense. people pray to a god, because they want things to change, that they can't change themselves. that makes sense to me.

now, that praying is completely useless is a whole other matter



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

Anyone who has been seeing my posts in threads like this one should know by know my views on spiritual things. So please allow me to skip the introductory statements and just speak with the assumption that no one here is an atheist. As always, I will speak both from the Bible and from the real life experiences I (and people that are close to me) have had with God.
Mathew 9: 38 - "Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest". Same thing said in Luke 10: 2. Or what about "...give us this day our daily bread...." which wasn't meant to be a scripted prayer, but a guideline? The Lord's prayer says start your prayers by praising God before making your personal requests and asking for God's will to be done, and it goes on. God gave man dominion of the earth. The devil stole it, and Jesus got it back. Neither the devil nor God can just randomly do anything on this earth. They need to do it through a man. That's why God needs us to "pray that HE sends laborers into HIS harvest". That's why men have to perform some rituals before the devil can do some of the stuff he wants to do. Why did God always tell the prophets "Do X or Y or take these steps" before he performed any action? Why did Moses have to strike the rock before God brought water out of it if He (God) wanted to supply the water anyway? I can go on and on but I think more examples wouldn't further convince you if you disagree with my point.
It might not have occurred to you, but God CAN change his mind on certain issues. I have posted in another thread some examples from the Bible where God actually changed his mind after someone asked him for something. And there were times (like when Moses asked for his punishment to be lifted or Paul asked for his 'thorn in the flesh' to be taken away) that God didn't change his mind, even when someone pleaded. You underestimate the truth that man is made in God's image. It means that many of our features are imitations of God's. We change our minds. We create. We decide. All things that God does also.



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